Why the NC Transgender law is retarded, and how it helps perverts

[Antischism]

I don't see how you could get that from what I said. Intersex individuals are a different category than what we've been talking about. They have a legitimate anatomical ambiguity. But without that ambiguity, someone with a vagina is a female and someone with a penis is a male. Claiming to identify as the other doesn't change that for a person.

Are you not saying that sex determines gender?

 

[erowe1]

Yes, but how are you going to prove what genitalia they have before entering the bathroom to actually enforce the law?

If they look like a man, you don't let them go into the women's room. If they then prove they're actually women, then you say, "OK, suit yourself."

Most likely, the practical effect for the women you keep calling transmen, if they look as much like men as the woman in the OP does, will be that they'll do what they've always done and use the men's room without any risk of anyone knowing or caring. They were violating policies all these years, and they'll continue to do so. Practically speaking this law will have no effect on them.

 

[tod evans]

Yes, but how are you going to prove what genitalia they have before entering the bathroom to actually enforce the law?

Already answered.

Well that settles it!

From this point forward all patrons of public facilities must enter completely neekid and submit to TSA inspection and probing prior to using the facilities....

It's for the children!

 

[erowe1]

Are you not saying that sex determines gender?

No, gender is a property of words, not human beings. I'm saying anatomy determines sex. And the signs on bathroom doors refer to sex, not gender, just like they always have.

 

[Gh34]

Basically, it comes down to this, it's literally impossible to enforce a law like this unless you card people before entering the bathroom as happens with alcohol purchases. That's too expensive to enforce, over bathrooms. You can create a third bathroom for transgenders, sure, but that's too expensive to build out for businesses too. There is no winning economic solution to this.

 

[Gh34]

If they look like a man, you don't let them go into the women's room. If they then prove they're actually women, then you say, "OK, suit yourself."

Most likely, the practical effect for the women you keep calling transmen, if they look as much like men as the woman in the OP does, will be that they'll do what they've always done and use the men's room without any risk of anyone knowing or caring. They were violating policies all these years, and they'll continue to do so. Practically speaking this law will have no effect on them.

Again, you won't be able to do that without carding them a la alcohol, so you mean to say that businesses will check ids every single time someone wants to enter a bathroom? Practically, that is unfeasible.

 

[tod evans]

Basically, it comes down to this, it's literally impossible to enforce a law like this unless you card people before entering the bathroom as happens with alcohol purchases. That's too expensive to enforce, over bathrooms. You can create a third bathroom for transgenders, sure, but that's too expensive to build out for businesses too. There is no winning economic solution to this.

Sure there is, put a bounty on weirdos...

I have one in my shop..........If you beat a weirdo with a stick before I do you get to keep the stick.

No bathroom use required.

 

[erowe1]

Again, you won't be able to do that without carding them a la alcohol, so you mean to say that businesses will check ids every single time someone wants to enter a bathroom? Practically, that is unfeasible.

Of course not. There would be no reason to do that unless someone who looks like a man enters a ladies' room. You talk as though that's a common occurrence.

Practically speaking, all this law really does is keep things the way they've always been, rather than letting the gay agenda push laws through at the local level forcing property owners to let men use ladies' rooms.

 

[Gh34]

Of course not. There would be no reason to do that unless someone who looks like a man enters a ladies' room. You talk as though that's a common occurrence.

If a pervert had a fake id that marked him as a woman but looked like a man, you would be legally forced to let him into the woman's bathroom under the new law too, whereas before you could tell him no simply based on looks.

 

[erowe1]

If a pervert had a fake id that marked him as a woman but looked like a man, you would be legally forced to let him into the woman's bathroom under the new law too, whereas before you could tell him no simply based on looks.

I doubt that's true. But he still wouldn't get away with using the shower because his penis would give him away, nor doing anything else where his penis was seen. It keeps coming back to this very simple, black-and-white issue.

 

[Gh34]

Practically speaking, all this law really does is keep things the way they've always been, rather than letting the gay agenda push laws through at the local level forcing property owners to let men use ladies' rooms.

Also, you're assuming most bathrooms are kept under lock and key or are actively monitored, they aren't. So if a fake trans man walked into a woman's bathroom, he could give an excuse to enter initially by pretending to be a transman, even without having an id.

 

[Gh34]

I doubt that's true. But he still wouldn't get away with using the shower because his penis would give him away, nor doing anything else where his penis was seen. It keeps coming back to this very simple, black-and-white issue.

If he/she is a trans-to-another sex you could make the legal argument that the individual is no longer the gender of the id, before the law, if he/she tried to sue you, and then he/she would be deposed revealing the history, and the case would basically be thrown out, that's why a case like that has never happened before, but such cases would be allowed under this new law.

 

[spudea]

Ya'll think it's safe for Caitlyn Jenner in the mens room?? Harassment and possible bodily harm practically guaranteed.

 

[RJB]

I wish this matter could be left to individual businesses so we don't have to waste time debating it. SMFH.

This should have been the end of the conversation.

 

[ThePaleoLibertarian]

Trans-men:

Who, exactly, is stopping these "men" from going in a woman's bathroom? Do they check their genitals before entry? They'd be in a stall anyway.

Trans women are a different story. I've never seen a single trans woman who legitimately "passed". They mostly look like ugly men with hair extensions and makeup.

 

[dannno]

Apparently they're not dudes, they're women who make themselves look like dudes. No, I wouldn't want them in my daughter's bathroom looking like that. I also wouldn't want her to see what most cross-dressers look like, which is an obvious man, only wearing women's clothes. But if those actually are women, as in people with vaginas, as they supposedly are, then regardless what they make themselves look like, if they did go in a women's restroom, they wouldn't be doing anything wrong. And if they went in a men's room, and went in a stall to sit down and pee, nobody would know they weren't men anyway.

It's also not just about restrooms, but also showers.

From your post it appears that you agree that many trans people should use the restroom they feel most comfortable in. Now, the issue of those who don't pass is a big issue, that I've made clear many times before, but you don't seem to hold the position that people born with a penis should use the mens room no matter what and vice versa.

 

[Danke]

All it does is force trans men and women to use bathrooms based on the sex that they were born in, considering that many trans men and women simply look like regular men and women, it does the opposite of the intended effect. It gives the pretext for straight perverted men to pretend to be transgender to enter women's bathrooms while dressing normally. They don't even need to wear a dress to enter the bathroom, they can just look like normal straight men and enter (because many trans men simply look like men) do you realize how ridiculous this law is and why for hundreds of years a law like this never existed? Trump is right. Example of Trans men who look like normal men are now forced to use Women's bathrooms.

Trans-men:

It's the actual logic that is flawed. Now it becomes easier for perverts to harass women, because they don't even need to wear a dress now because of the new law, they can just wear normal clothes and pretend to be transmen. Whereas before, transmen would have just been told to go to the men's room.

Girls can grow beards?

 

[Origanalist]

Ok, at what point did this become a thing? Because I recall that for the majority of my life going to the bathroom was not a complicated situation. That means somebody is making it into one.

 

[erowe1]

From your post it appears that you agree that many trans people should use the restroom they feel most comfortable in. Now, the issue of those who don't pass is a big issue, that I've made clear many times before, but you don't seem to hold the position that people born with a penis should use the mens room no matter what and vice versa.

I have never said it was about what they were born with. But if they currently have a penis, then yes, they should use the men's room.

The comment you quoted from me was about people who did not have penises. Having those women who are indistinguishable from men going pee in a stall in a mens' room without any risk of anyone even knowing they're actually women is not the same thing as having men go in the ladies' room.

 

[erowe1]

Ok, at what point did this become a thing? Because I recall that for the majority of my life going to the bathroom was not a complicated situation. That means somebody is making it into one.

Exactly. And what's getting bothersome is propaganda like the OP that tries to make it look like the people who want to keep it the way it's always been are the one's trying to push their agenda on everyone else, when in fact they're just playing defense.