Why the Catholic Church require so much bs for my kids to recieve the sacraments?

Whatever, Man

The vast majority of us Atheists don't give a rat's ass about your religion. We're not trying to convert anyone. Stop misrepresenting and vilifying us..

Yeah, right. The entire American "Atheists" website is centered around trying to debunk and refute Christianity. You think "atheists" don't care about Christianity?! Try telling that to those "atheist" extremists Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, and Christopher Hitchens who spend their whole lives writing against, debating, and indoctrinating thousands in their conferences and conventions to hate Christianity. You don't know what you're talking about.

See the glass all around you? Don't throw stones.

Just hope that the next stone I throw at you doesn't crush you in your forehead. In the meantime, you should be more careful where you step because of all the broken glass I shattered around you. ;)
 
Yeah, right. The entire American "Atheists" website is centered around trying to debunk and refute Christianity. You think "atheists" don't care about Christianity?! Try telling that to those "atheist" extremists Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, and Christopher Hitchens who spend their whole lives writing against, debating, and indoctrinating thousands in their conferences and conventions to hate Christianity. You don't know what you're talking about.



Just hope that the next stone I throw at you doesn't crush you in your forehead. In the meantime, you should be more careful where you step because of all the broken glass I shattered around you. ;)

Jeezus Tapdancing Christ, you are full of yourself.

I may have no love for religion, but I'm not out to convert anyone. Neither are the vast majority of atheists. We don't want religion in our lives. We don't care if it's in yours.

Judging an entire group by its most vocal members is silly and fallacious. Yes, Dawkins and Hitchens are active and passionate about their atheism. I'm not sure I blame them, considering how we are all treated.

But unless my memory is playing tricks with me, Christianity has it's share of vitriolic and abrasive noisemakers. Would you want all of Christianity to be judged by the example that Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson set? Would it be accurate? Of course not.

Take your parochial anti-atheist bullshit elsewhere.
 
As with my political views, if someone's trying to push their bullshit on someone, I'll counter-bullshit it. I have no reason to push Atheism, but I'll push against Theism.
 
"Atheist" Conversion Experience

Jeezus Tapdancing Christ, you are full of yourself.

I may have no love for religion, but I'm not out to convert anyone. Neither are the vast majority of atheists. We don't want religion in our lives. We don't care if it's in yours.

Judging an entire group by its most vocal members is silly and fallacious. Yes, Dawkins and Hitchens are active and passionate about their atheism. I'm not sure I blame them, considering how we are all treated.

But unless my memory is playing tricks with me, Christianity has it's share of vitriolic and abrasive noisemakers. Would you want all of Christianity to be judged by the example that Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson set? Would it be accurate? Of course not.

Take your parochial anti-atheist bullshit elsewhere.

First of all, you don't know what the majority of "atheists" are trying to do because you don't have absolute knowledge. Maybe the "atheists" you've come into contact with aren't trying to convert anyone, but you can't say that applies to a majority of "atheists" on the planet. It's you who has committed a logical fallacy, a hasty generalization, to be exact. I'm not trying to judge the whole group of "atheists" in the world; I'm judging those "atheists" who do act like Roman Catholics in their man-made, irrational, and idolatrous propaganda to confuse and complicate masses of people to believe as they believe, namely, that there is no God. Just like the Roman Catholics, these "atheists" have their own ritual that they promote to the followers of their religion, and it is self-worship. God save our children from this madness!

By the way, if you say you're not trying to convert anyone, then why do you keep responding to my posts? It seems like you want to change my mind about my beliefs to speak the truth on this forum thread about those who seek to undermine true Christianity, such as the Roman Catholics have done, as witnessed and confessed by the thread starter ghemminger. I know you can't help but to defend your religion of "atheism" when it's attacked by a theist such as myself, which only vindicates that you want to convert me to your faith. I understand completely.
 
Newtonian Notions of Religious Motion

As with my political views, if someone's trying to push their bullshit on someone, I'll counter-bullshit it. I have no reason to push Atheism, but I'll push against Theism.

You're simply mistaken here, Kludge. Your whole argument assumes that "atheism" is a neutral position. It definitely is not. "Atheism" has been pushed and is being pushed on theists continually. For instance, when prayer was taken out of schools, Bible reading banned from the classrooms, and the Ten Commandments pulled down from the schoolhouse walls, that was "atheism" being pushed onto others. These actions were forcing somebody else's religion onto someone else, specifically, disallowing any acknowledgment of the Christian God in a public institution (a tenet of the "atheistic" religion). The removal of one faith system is just the imposition of another. This is what the festering virus of "atheism" has done to our once Christian nation. It's forced many people to forget and/or not believe that God exists, at least in the public school systems. This is just one institution of society that "atheism" has infected, but I could give more examples. My point is simply that for every religious action there is an "equal" and opposite religious action. Christianity and "Atheism" are diametrically opposed to one another. There is no neutrality between them; there's only differing belief systems whether they assume God's existence or not.

By the way, are you implying that "atheism" is bullshit in your counter technique? Just curious...
 
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You're simply mistaken here, Kludge. Your whole argument assumes that "atheism" is a neutral position. It definitely is not. "Atheism" has been pushed and is being pushed on theists continually. For instance, when prayer was taken out of schools, Bible reading banned from the classrooms, and the Ten Commandments pulled down from the schoolhouse walls, that was "atheism" being pushed onto others. These actions were forcing somebody else's religion onto someone else, specifically, disallowing any acknowledgment of the Christian God in a public institution (a tenet of the "atheistic" religion). The removal of one faith system is just the imposition of another. This is what the festering virus of "atheism" has done to our once Christian nation. It's forced many people to forget and/or not believe that God exists, at least in the public school systems. This is just one institution of society that "atheism" has infected, but I could give more examples. My point is simply that for every religious action there is an "equal" and opposite religious action. Christianity and "Atheism" are diametrically opposed to one another. There is no neutrality between them; there's only differing belief systems whether they assume God's existence or not.

By the way, are you implying that "atheism" is bullshit in your counter technique? Just curious...

Disallowing religion in government institutions is a flaw of our government system. There's no way religious diversity and a secular government can co-exist.

The bullshit is pushing something which is unproven. Unfortunately, Atheism is an umbrella term. Within the collective group of Atheists, you'll find those who disbelieve in God absolutely and those who argue that Theism hasn't proven the existence in God, and that you can't believe in something unproven. "They" argue that using that process of "thinking", you'd have no trouble believing in Global Cooling even if it isn't absolutely proven. They are those incapable of faith, of any kind.

Atheism isn't bullshit, it's the defense against the religious infringement on secularism in Government. Atheists wouldn't exist without Theists.

Both are wrong, and it's our flawed governmental system that makes it so.

(Intolerant) Theists are wrong because, almost always, their deity supersedes the will of others and the laws other's tell them to abide by. They make laws that suit their God's needs and not the will of the people.

Atheists (who use the title as a type of anti-theist movement) are wrong because they seek to infringe on the freedom to worship and freedom of speech. However, most Atheists simply seek to put their side of the story out in public so undecideds can choose what to believe.

Agnostics just haven't fully thought over the issue or are morons. (sorry)
 
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Jeezus Tapdancing Christ, you are full of yourself.

I may have no love for religion, but I'm not out to convert anyone. Neither are the vast majority of atheists. We don't want religion in our lives. We don't care if it's in yours.

Judging an entire group by its most vocal members is silly and fallacious. Yes, Dawkins and Hitchens are active and passionate about their atheism. I'm not sure I blame them, considering how we are all treated.

But unless my memory is playing tricks with me, Christianity has it's share of vitriolic and abrasive noisemakers. Would you want all of Christianity to be judged by the example that Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson set? Would it be accurate? Of course not.

Take your parochial anti-atheist bullshit elsewhere.

Pat Robertson is a crook, so I wouldn't want to be associated with him, even though I am a Christian.
 
concur.

It is a private organization - and even different diocese seem to have different guidelines (in my very limited experiences), at least for some things.

Yes. Believe it or not, the Catholic church is a big practicer of federalism. Local clergy and Bishops decide these things. Take it to them.
 
Attend this bible study 6 times in a row for each kid? Get a signature for every mass I attend? Wt heck - my parents didn't have to put up with this stuff - why is everyone in the church such control freaks now?

Did you ask your child if he/she wants to join this particular cult?
 
Did you ask your child if he/she wants to join this particular cult?


How can a child determine own Religion? That's crazy... I am raising them in the beliefs that I have - where they take it is up to them....

Children need God - and structure - I feel sorry for children with parents like you:D
 
How can a child determine own Religion? That's crazy... I am raising them in the beliefs that I have - where they take it is up to them....

Children need God - and structure - I feel sorry for children with parents like you:D

Agreed, but I don't think you will find God at the Catholic Church. Try a Christian one :cool:
 
How can a child determine own Religion? That's crazy... I am raising them in the beliefs that I have - where they take it is up to them....

Children need God - and structure - I feel sorry for children with parents like you:D

I'm not a parent. I would let my child study any religion that he/she wants to study. I wouldn't push my beliefs on him/her. You can have structure without religion.
 
Agreed, but I don't think you will find God at the Catholic Church. Try a Christian one :cool:


I've been to both trust me if you have a friend die - you want Catholic Funeral - The Christian ones are just soo lame....come on...we got prayers, chants, candles and incense....
 
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Agreed, but I don't think you will find God at the Catholic Church. Try a Christian one :cool:

lol, retarded statement. Catholics are Christian. I know you guys don't like to call yourselves Protestant, but I'm sure thats what you meant by "Christian"
 
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It always amazes me that otherwise rational people can spend hours debating the existance of some mythical being. The Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy and Santa Claus threads NEVER get this heated.
 
It always amazes me that otherwise rational people can spend hours debating the existance of some mythical being. The Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy and Santa Claus threads NEVER get this heated.

Yup. We don't have any proof that unicorns don't exist, so how can we say they don't exist? lol. *sarcasm*
 
Well, I'm not surprised to see that this thread has gone in the direction it's gone. :rolleyes: I'm not really sure how well-received this will be here, but I'll try to actually answer the OP's question.

1.) Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, and some protestant Christians believe that the Sacraments are the ways that we humans participate most fully in the divine Grace of Christ (Saint John Chrysostom was among the first to refer to the Sacraments as "Mysteries," which I think is a more apt term).

The teaching of the Catholic Church is that the holy mysteries/sacraments help us in our process of what the Fathers called Theosis. Catholic and Protestant Christians today refer to theosis as Sanctification. Saint Peter, in his second Epistle, says that we have become "partakers of the Divine Nature."

2.) In the Eastern Orthodox and Eastern Catholic churches, infants receive three of the seven sacraments shortly after birth: baptism, confirmation, and the Eucharist, with their parents' pledge to instruct them in the faith. This was also the Roman Catholic practice until an idea arose that children should attain the use of their rational faculties before receiving first communion and confirmation.

Priests and religious education directors with good intentions want to be sure that children know that the Church is not a Sacramental McDonald's. In an era where many parents cannot even name the Ten Commandments, I think that there is a cause for concern. However:


3.) Your child does not have to go through "bs" in order to be able to receive the Sacraments. The Catechism of the Catholic Church says thus: "At what age children are to receive the Holy Mysteries no one can better judge than their father and the priest who is their confessor. For it is their duty to ascertain by questioning the children whether they have any understanding of this admirable Sacrament and if they have any desire for it." If a child is ready, he is ready. You have the canonical right and indeed the obligation to insist that your children receive the sacraments when they are ready. If the pastor at your parish insists that your children go through a pathetic religious education program, you actually do have the right to go to another priest. It is not being sneaky or snarky. Many parents I know have done this, and it is certainly what I plan to do when I have children.

4.) I recommend that you take your children to a parish run by the FSSP or the ICKSP. Both are traditional groups who are highly educated and who are deeply concerned about being authentically Catholic. I would not recommend the SSPX because of their distance from the authority of the Pope and allegations of mind control/abuse of younger members. A priest I know who left the SSPX was nearly assassinated.

Another option is to go to an Eastern Catholic parish in your area. They are in communion with the Pope and will most certainly give your children the sacraments if your children are ready. You will satisfy your Sunday Obligation by going to their Masses. However, they use the ancient liturgies of Saint James, Saint Basil, and Saint John Chrysostom. These will at first appear to be very different from the Roman Mass, but the same elements are there.
 
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