Why so few Christians joining fight against The Mark?

[Kade]

allies against what? theists? i didn't know we were fighting

Allies in the sense that I have a few people take my side on a simple issue...

 

[thuja]

everyone must fight this, religious or not. see my post about invisible RFID ink and RFID dust in the robot dog thread. maybe people will be wearing invisible RFID.
also go to www.spychips.com
alzheimers patients microchipped in florida last year.

 

[Kade]

Kade,

I can't believe you have a problem with me calling you an antichrist. You are anti-christian. Are you offended because I called you that? Why? It is true. Read the definition provided by pcosmar.

For the record, I am still "pretty calm." Just calling it like I see it.

I don't like being labeled anti-christian at all. I'm not really against people... I was a believer for many years of my life... and I am a cultural Christian. How many times do I have to say this? I just don't believe in gods and demons and supernatural things. I'm not sorry if you think that makes me a bad person. When I feel that you use your beliefs to make a point about an issue, it does affect me, because I believe most dialogs can leave religious language out of it, in cases like this, I'm not going to encourage people to espouse "end times" prophecies, even if for the time being, I happen to agree on the issue...as is the case with REAL ID.

It's always convenient to apply hell and damnation to people who don't agree with you, than it is to confront them... labeling me an little antichrist is offensive because it allows you to summarily dismiss without thinking much about these things.

 

[maeqFREEDOMfree]

Allies in the sense that I have a few people take my side on a simple issue...

maybe that's part of the issue. to many people, atheists and theists alike, it's not a simple issue. to many of us it's a fundamental building block for decisions we make.

people (especially on forums) will look for an opportunity to argue with other people for all kinds of reasons... it's how they get their jollies.

don't worry about it

 

[Dr.3D]

This thread was about "Why so few Christians joining fight against The Mark?"

I don't know why it had to be high-jacked by so many people who don't know the answer to the question posed in the subject line.

Wouldn't it be just a simple thing to say you don't believe in theological study and be done with it? Why does one feel the need to keep flogging a dead horse?

All right, we all know you don't believe in God. Fine.... now what is the point of pushing this 'unbelief' to the point of absurdity?

 

[Kade]

This thread was about "Why so few Christians joining fight against The Mark?"

I don't know why it had to be high-jacked by so many people who don't know the answer to the question posed in the subject line.

Wouldn't it be just a simple thing to say you don't believe in theological study and be done with it? Why does one feel the need to keep flogging a dead horse?

All right, we all know you don't believe in God. Fine.... now what is the point of pushing this 'unbelief' to the point of absurdity?

A great way to make it less about my concern here, and deviant from the simple fact that these boards are crawling with this nonsense.

"Why are so few Christians joining the fight against The Mark?"

Because they have brains, and they don't believe in "The Mark".

I answered it.

 

[Dr.3D]

A great way to make it less about my concern here, and deviant from the simple fact that these boards are crawling with this nonsense.

"Why are so few Christians joining the fight against The Mark?"

Because they have brains, and they don't believe in "The Mark".

I answered it.

Now that we have your opinion, we can hear from the others what their opinion is.

 

[Kade]

Now that we have your opinion, we can hear from the others what their opinion is.

Well, when you say it that way. :o

 

[Stallion]

Clearly, because someone claims to be a Christian it does not mean by default that they aren't prone to hypocrisy, succuming to ignorance, or are just flat-out stupid. I'm a Christian, so to speak, and with all the shit we have going on today, I see it as a huge red flag alert. I don't know why so many Christians are so gullible and blind. I think the Bible is right when it talks about the masses being deceived. And I do believe we are headed towards some dark times.

Your point about praying for peace yet voting for war is an extremely valid one. Ron Paul, as a Christian himself, preaches this concept and lives it. He's the truth here. He's the real deal. Why can't Christians see that?

It's fear... and a lack of faith on their part, I believe

They fear those "terrorists" and they think Monarch Bush, appointed by God Himself, will save America from those evil Muslims.

The world is totally fucked

I was raised in a Christian home my entire life. My grandfather was a church-planting missionary. My parents made sure I was in church (Baptist) every Sunday and usually on Wednesday nights as well. I accepted Christ (for those of you not familiar with Christianity, this means to accept that Christ was the Son of God, lived a sinless life, and died on the cross to pay the price for your sins) at the age of 5 and at the age of 10, I really started growing my relationship with Christ. I still attend a Baptist church. The problem with many Christians today, and trust me because I used to fall into this category, is that they are no different than any of the other "sheep" in this country or throughout the world. Christians in the last several decades have not been immune from the dumbing down that goes on in our public school system or the brainwashing of the MSM. Alot of Christians recognize that many current events fall into line with end time prophecies found in the Bible, but its as if they are hoping that God will delay the destruction of the world until after their generation dies. The major problem with many Christians today is that they simply love this world too much and don't want to let go. Another thing is, I believe that many of my fellow Christians view America as the second coming of ancient Israel...that is, God's chosen people and the "Holy Land." They seem to think that since America was founded on Judeo-Christian principles and not mentioned by name in Revelation, she is somehow immune from destruction. That couldn't be further from the truth! I believe America will be front and center of the NWO one world government that is ruled over by Antichrist. I believe that New York City could well be the "new Babylon." Most Christians just seem to think that as long as we have a president that calls himself a Christian (I believe he is a wolf in sheep's clothing and a pawn for Satan) America will be protected and God will bless her. That is just foolish and naive. I'm glad God, through Ron Paul and this movement, opened my eyes to what is going on in this world and has entrusted me with waking others up. It's difficult. Trust me...sometimes I just want to grab some of my Christian friends and shake them. They all believe Bush is some kind of hero of the faith and they can't wait until McCain gets in to power. It's really saddening!

 

[GunnyFreedom]

I was raised in a Christian home my entire life. My grandfather was a church-planting missionary. My parents made sure I was in church (Baptist) every Sunday and usually on Wednesday nights as well. I accepted Christ (for those of you not familiar with Christianity, this means to accept that Christ was the Son of God, lived a sinless life, and died on the cross to pay the price for your sins) at the age of 5 and at the age of 10, I really started growing my relationship with Christ. I still attend a Baptist church. The problem with many Christians today, and trust me because I used to fall into this category, is that they are no different than any of the other "sheep" in this country or throughout the world. Christians in the last several decades have not been immune from the dumbing down that goes on in our public school system or the brainwashing of the MSM. Alot of Christians recognize that many current events fall into line with end time prophecies found in the Bible, but its as if they are hoping that God will delay the destruction of the world until after their generation dies. The major problem with many Christians today is that they simply love this world too much and don't want to let go. Another thing is, I believe that many of my fellow Christians view America as the second coming of ancient Israel...that is, God's chosen people and the "Holy Land." They seem to think that since America was founded on Judeo-Christian principles and not mentioned by name in Revelation, she is somehow immune from destruction. That couldn't be further from the truth! I believe America will be front and center of the NWO one world government that is ruled over by Antichrist. I believe that New York City could well be the "new Babylon." Most Christians just seem to think that as long as we have a president that calls himself a Christian (I believe he is a wolf in sheep's clothing and a pawn for Satan) America will be protected and God will bless her. That is just foolish and naive. I'm glad God, through Ron Paul and this movement, opened my eyes to what is going on in this world and has entrusted me with waking others up. It's difficult. Trust me...sometimes I just want to grab some of my Christian friends and shake them. They all believe Bush is some kind of hero of the faith and they can't wait until McCain gets in to power. It's really saddening!

Saddening and sickening. As a former seminarian and an until recently active Baptist, I can attest that nearly the same proportion of asleep to awake exist in the church as in the world, maybe 85/15 in the church and 90/10 in the world. Just barely enough of a difference to notice one, anyway.

It makes it a new kind of American somnolence, with the church now also asleep for the thief.

 

[sedele]

Don't be alarmed if believers are still here when there is the required acceptance of the 'mark'. In my years of study, I have not seen any evidence of a pre-tribulation rapture.

Amen! Pre-trib is a LIE!

This doctrine just very well be a big part of the "strong delusion" spoken of in the Bible.

2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.


2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

 

[Dr.3D]

Amen! Pre-trib is a LIE!

This doctrine just very well be a big part of the "strong delusion" spoken of in the Bible.

Could very well be.

Gotta watch yourself around here though, there are a bunch of people who don't belong responding to these threads. They tend to go off on a rant and take the thread off subject.

 

[DeadtoSin]

People wonder if I'm a pre-tribulationist or a post-tribulationist. Well, I'm a pan-tribulationist. I believe that with God in control everything will pan out in the end.

 

[sedele]

People wonder if I'm a pre-tribulationist or a post-tribulationist. Well, I'm a pan-tribulationist. I believe that with God in control everything will pan out in the end.

Strong Delusion

As the rapture doctrine sweeps across America in the most unprecedented fashion in modern history, very few realize that the spiritual trap has been set, the snare has snapped shut, and the prophesied Strong Delusion is already upon us. I’m speaking of the false doctrine of dispensationalism, and the marketing tool of that ungodly system — the pre-tribulation rapture.

With the release of the Left Behind book and movie series, the Satanic doctrine of demons has now come to fruition and borne the fruit of its devilish design. While most Christians that have been programmed by the rapture cult continue to “heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears” 1. and defend the system because they want it to be true, others simply dismiss the issue as having any importance. `What does it matter?’ they reason--`as long as we truly love the Lord, it’s just an unimportant issue of timing.’

The latter group will never know why it matters, because they’ve already chosen to close their minds to a study of the issue on that basis. The truth is, this issue has enormous implications for the hearts and souls of end time believers. Indeed, I can categorically state that if you continue in the pre-tribulation rapture delusion and refuse to hear the truth of the matter, you are on extremely dangerous ground in your supposed relationship to the Lord Jesus Christ. If you will continue to read this essay, you will hear the truth of the matter.

Fortunately, a very few courageous souls have taken the Word of God to heart and determined that they will indeed “study to show (themselves) approved.”

Continued @ http://www.christianmediaresearch.com/cmc-43.html

 

[[email protected]]

No need to, Jesus will intervene and save everyone.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

There is a big difference between a false doctrine and a false heart. I do not believe that someone genuinely mistaken and taken in a false doctrine will be punished for a lack of understanding. I do believe that someone with a false heart will be cast into outer darkness, whether his doctrines are perfect, or perfectly wrong.

When I hear someone say 'oh you are damned to hell because you believe in [enter miscellaneous pet irrelevant dogmatic future here]!' it just makes me sick. Sure, maybe I'm a covenant theologian instead of a dispensationalist. Sure, maybe my understanding of the catching up and the personal transfiguration are completely different from that of mainstream churches, but how can someone with the Spirit of Truth in their heart have the audacity to decide for their fellow man that one interpretation of a cryptic prophecy set in the future or another is enough to judge someone as hell-bound or heavenward?

YES there will be strong delusion so as to believe a lie, indeed, I have already seen it. YES, it will be amongst the church, indeed, it already is. There are far too many people amongst us today who in their heart of hearts, would rather cling to a lie that makes them feel comfortable, special, powerful, or safe; then to know the truth which will make them uncomfortable, common, weak, or in jeopardy. They rebel almost violently against any kind of truth which could stand to jeopardize the lie that they believe.

But it is not a specific lie, like you talk about, anybody who believes in a pre-trib rapture must have been given the lie. Instead, it could be anything, anything at all. It could even be perfect doctrine, while assuming a higher place in it than merited -- or it could be false doctrine from the ground up. It is not a specific doctrine itself, but the overt preference for lies over truth.

To those people, God will send strong delusion, to believe the lie, because they have no love of truth.

If your heart is truly in God, and filled with the Spirit of Truth, then you must be prepared at any moment to radically transform the doctrines which you yourself believe, should a correction come from the hand of God. It is easy to say the platitude, "I am!" but are we really? What would you do if suddenly over the course of a week, myriad signs point you in a direction you don't like? What if God led you to discover a mainstream pre-trib rapture? (bear in mind that I do not believe in one myself here...) but if that did happen, what would you do? Would you radically transform your own reason here, or would you be more comfortable with thinking that you are one of the 'special ones' and justify in your mind how it must have been some demon that led you there and not God?

These are hard questions, and there are no easy answers. And yet, they may be the most important answers we will ever consider. Do we really follow Him? or when it comes down to crunch time, are we really our own creatures and not His?

 

[GunnyFreedom]

No need to, Jesus will intervene and save everyone.

Actually, it is we, his people, who are charged with doing His work in the world. If we see someone who is hungry and we are capable of helping them, then we must help them or face the guilt of greed or gluttony in our own lives.

This notion you have repeatedly raised in this thread, that Christians believe in an interventionist God, therefore we ought to sit on our ass and fiddle while the world burns around us, it is not a Christian line of reasoning, but a line of reasoning which is opposed to all that which the Messiah stands for.

He showed us that when we do good for people, regardless of race, color, creed, gender, age, or religion, that we have done this good for Messiah; but when we ignore their plight, then we have likewise ignored the Messiah.

Now I know that you are on the outside looking in, and that you are attempting to characterize Christians based on your experiences, but guess what? A lot of nominal Christians are bad, and not good; are false, and not true.

Do you honestly think that those Christians on this board like myself, who have given full-time months if not years to saving this nation and our Liberty from destruction at the hands of evil men, are following in the same philosophy that you cite above? If you encounter someone like, say, a Mother Theresa who has devoted her entire life to nothing but the service and the salvation of humanity, will you likewise open your yaw and spit in her face to claim what you have claimed above?

We can all point to one person in a group to which we do not belong who is not good. I know one woman who is a stupid evil sadistic witch; but do I run around like a braying jackass saying that 'all women are stupid evil sadistic witches?"

Your petty, self-absorbed, self-serving collectivist claptrap has no place in Dr Ron Paul's universe, and had you any decency you would refrain from subjecting us to your wretched bigotries and prejudices.

 

[DeadtoSin]

Continued @ http://www.christianmediaresearch.com/cmc-43.html

I'm not sure what you are insinuating. All I did was say that you should believe what you believe, let the pre-trib people believe what they believe. Its been debated for a lot longer than you, and I very much doubt that your input will be the last discussion on it. My post just meant to say "Trust God, don't worry about the small stuff."

 

[Kade]

People wonder if I'm a pre-tribulationist or a post-tribulationist. Well, I'm a pan-tribulationist. I believe that with God in control everything will pan out in the end.

What an admirable position. I strongly believe the doctrine of eternal torment to be an appropriate gauge of the emotional empathy of people. Imagine, if there were a god, a rational, loving god at that, whose only requirement for transcendence was the belief that a loving god could not and would not torment his creation for any past transgressions. I don't personally believe in a god, but I'm a cultural Christian, and I take some of my morality from how I was raised. I've read the bible more than many, and I give it no authority over the domain of my mind or my life, as I believe man has progressed much further in thought and conscience since the time it was written. I have a theology degree from Notre Dame, and at the time, mostly a deist/pantheist. I became an atheist/strong agnostic towards the end of my degree, when I realized that I had taken the full prowess of the revelation and found it lacking. In a philosophical sense, I can only forgive those that wield empathy as if it were in itself, the divine mandate, and hence the only mandate. Those that use scripture as a literal revelation believe so strongly that it is the inspired word of god, completely and utterly irrelevant to prevailing revealed facts on reality, that they have created a profound and divisive theological system, that honors imposed divine justice, applied reward and punishment, and ultimately intolerance.