Why not debtors' prison?

[Tpoints]

My prediction : people here will say because there's a system wide conspiracy to either bait stupid people into debt, or fraudulently force people into debt they'd never incur voluntarily. But hopefully people agree that if debts were voluntarily created, then prisons would be an appropriate punishment when debts can't be expected to be paid back (and bankruptcy discharging debts makes a mockery of responsibility)

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/26/opinion/dowd-why-not-debtors-prison.html?_r=0

 

[Acala]

Government shouldn't be in the business of enforcing people's contracts. If you make a bad deal and end up being unable to collect what is owed you, that is YOUR problem, not mine. Fraud would be another matter and I approve of the use of force to obtain restitution in those instances. But breech of contract? That's a private matter. Be more careful next time you lend your money.

 

[acptulsa]

So, Tpoints, you must be all for the War on Drugs, because it obviously and disproportionally punishes those too dumb to understand and use their Constitutional rights. Well, fine. Let's do it. Just one thing--the rest of us don't want to keep paying to incarcerate dumb people in academies of higher crime, where people can learn new trades like burglary, safecracking and dozens of others. So, we'll expect you to volunteer to fund this fiasco of yours.

 

[Danke]

My prediction : people here will say because there's a system wide conspiracy to either bait stupid people into debt, or fraudulently force people into debt they'd never incur voluntarily. But hopefully people agree that if debts were voluntarily created, then prisons would be an appropriate punishment when debts can't be expected to be paid back (and bankruptcy discharging debts makes a mockery of responsibility)

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/26/opinion/dowd-why-not-debtors-prison.html?_r=0

I say lock up all those that put our nation in debt.

 

[otherone]

My prediction : people here will say

Why should I have to pay for prisons because your dumbass can't pay your creditors?
Maybe we'd have money to pay our bills if the state didn't always have it's hand in our pockets.

 

[Tpoints]

Government shouldn't be in the business of enforcing people's contracts. If you make a bad deal and end up being unable to collect what is owed you, that is YOUR problem, not mine. Fraud would be another matter and I approve of the use of force to obtain restitution in those instances. But breech of contract? That's a private matter. Be more careful next time you lend your money.

how is breaching contract any less the government's business than fraud?

 

[Tpoints]

Why should I have to pay for prisons because your dumbass can't pay your creditors?
Maybe we'd have money to pay our bills if the state didn't always have it's hand in our pockets.

you assume you pay nothing if I'm free to cheat more people out of their money, obviously I would only favor punishments and costs if I believe the alternative is worse.

 

[Tpoints]

So, Tpoints, you must be all for the War on Drugs, because it obviously and disproportionally punishes those too dumb to understand and use their Constitutional rights. Well, fine. Let's do it.

why would I be in favor of that?

 

[tod evans]

Prisons run and funded by whom?

Under what authority do you see laws of this nature being instituted?

Finally how exactly do you see this as being a net positive for US citizens?

 

[Tpoints]

Prisons run and funded by whom?

Under what authority do you see laws of this nature being instituted?

Finally how exactly do you see this as being a net positive for US citizens?

yeah, I sure don't want to fund prisons, let's get rid of all laws. why should I pay to lock up a person just because he killed or raped somebody I don't know? What authority do I (or YOU for the matter) have to punish a person against his will just because he violated another person other than you or me?

Net positive? Discourage debt. Oh, sorry, I must be imagining the wrong negatives about debt. Is debt something that's harmless and not worth avoiding? My bad!

 

[tod evans]

yeah, I sure don't want to fund prisons, let's get rid of all laws. why should I pay to lock up a person just because he killed or raped somebody I don't know?

Oh come on, you're the one spouting grand ideas try following up just a little bit.

 

[Tpoints]

Oh come on, you're the one spouting grand ideas try following up just a little bit.

nobody likes funding prisons unless they benefit from it. I guess I can't convince you to fund it if you don't see the benefit.

 

[tod evans]

nobody likes funding prisons unless they benefit from it. I guess I can't convince you to fund it if you don't see the benefit.

Obviously you are having trouble answering pointed questions this morning and are looking to attribute thought and statements to me again.....

Try harder.

 

[Tpoints]

Obviously you are having trouble answering pointed questions this morning and are looking to attribute thought and statements to me again.....

Try harder.

ok, tell me. What prisons are you happy to fund, and why?

 

[otherone]

Obviously you are having trouble answering pointed questions this morning and are looking to attribute thought and statements to me again.....

Try harder.

It's strawman monday...."maybe we shouldn't have ANY laws, rapists and pedophiles running amok in the streets....."


How about this....why must I be responsible to recover money for an irresponsible lender?

 

[tod evans]

I'm not going to get into a discussion with you about my beliefs on prisons, you opened this thread looking to expand the governments reach with "debtors prisons" and I merely asked you a few questions.

Do you care to answer them?

 

[Tpoints]

It's strawman monday...."maybe we shouldn't have ANY laws, rapists and pedophiles running amok in the streets....."


How about this....why must I be responsible to recover money for an irresponsible lender?

the same reason you must be responsible for paying to imprison a criminal who didn't violate or threaten you, UNLESS YOU ADMIT WE SHOULD HAVE NO LAWS OR NO ENFORCEMENT FUNDED BY TAXPAYERS.

 

[Tpoints]

I'm not going to get into a discussion with you about my beliefs on prisons, you opened this thread looking to expand the governments reach with "debtors prisons" and I merely asked you a few questions.

Do you care to answer them?

is it more likely you don't know what you're talking about and can't defend your position because you know how stupid it sounds when you hold yourself to the same rules and burdens you're "merely asking me"?

I will be happy to answer a person who will at least correct me if he's going to cry strawman.

 

[tod evans]

is it more likely you don't know what you're talking about and can't defend your position because you know how stupid it sounds when you hold yourself to the same rules and burdens you're "merely asking me"?

You've got it Ace.

I'm an idiot not worthy of your time.

Bye.

 

[Tpoints]

You've got it Ace.

I'm an idiot not worthy of your time.

Bye.

Can't argue with that.

You know which prisons you won't fund, but you can't tell me which ones you want to fund. So when I asked "why not just have zero laws" you complain I strawman you, but you can't correct me.