Why men earn more

Well, it isn't just cuz they're men... I know that my way isn't right for everyone...so, that's why it just doesn't bother me that much.

My point, exactly, regarding your idyllic but quite uncommon Life Situation. "My way isn't right for everyone" is bedrock to good governance.


But, I personally think that women have no place in the workforce (excluding certain jobs)...and if they acting like ladies instead of this weirdness they do nowadays, they wouldn't need to work..

"Different strokes for different folks" is bedrock to Libertarianism.

They DID need to go to work. World War II could not have been "won" without them. War was not their idea. Look to the people who are calling the shots when Society runs amok, not to the people who change up when conditions on the ground change.

Hard to put toothpaste back into the tube. Impossible to cut your hair long.


Like I said, I know my way isn't right for everyone, so I generally don't care... It's not a big number on my to-do list right now..

Like you, I have NO intention of making a lifetime hobby out of "fixing Washington." Once we figger out what's what and I do what I can, if I can, I'm gonna carve me out something peaceful myself, in this country or another.

But these are not Ordinary Times.

And it is NOT a small number. There are 53 MILLION single women in this country, and you know what they say about a Woman Scorned.

If the proverbial shit ever does hit the proverbial fan -- in other words, if this has NOT been just so much Mental Masturbation -- I imagine your homestead to be an oasis for certain people. I can actually call scenes from Gone With The Wind to mind.



much more important things to fix first.

And I will argue that Justice trumps even Liberty. Otherwise, what? Free to be Unjust? Might makes Right?
 
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Loyola in new orleans?

No, no... in Maryland.

- but I don't go there. Looked at it... but didn't go there. I am saying I see the sexism in the sciences already, just as an overall observation at the med schools I am starting to look at.

Now that I read my reply it kinda implies I go there... but I don't.
 
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i don't think it is *all* a complete crock...some of it is pretty obvious...like the hazardous jobs and such.. I mean you can't honestly expect someone being a dental assistant to get the same pay as someone working in a gravel pit running heavy machinery, right? I mean, those take about the same amount of training, but one is waaay more dangerous than the others.

This is a COMPLETELY separate issue that ALSO brings JUSTICE and COMMON SENSE=LAISSEZ FAIRE ECONOMICS into stark relief.

To keep things simple -- rather than give each split-hair specialty a Name that may or may not be intuitive and that is recognized by only a tiny percentage of the population, so that B.M.O.C. can FEEL like B.M.O.C. -- the flip side of the Laissez Faire Economics coin is Communism.

Communism doesn't work. Period. No sense wastin' precious time in a brief life debating what you already KNOW -- like you and munitions.

Communism fails for a number of reasons, but up there in the Top Ten is the RIDICULOUS proposition of paying people the same amount of money for Labor with different degrees of difficulty and danger. People are people. For the same price, everyone will take the easy way out. So You/notyou have to start picking and choosing people, and COMPEL them to do the heavy lifting. They are SURE to be unhappy with the arrangement.

I give you our Military -- which doesn't even get paid the same, but LESS. I'm telling you, we are behaving like MAD MEN. I don't know whether the people who voted with Obama are still diggin' his action and feelin' the hope, but it is as clear as it can be that he's up to No-Good-Read-That-Business-As-Usual or he is handsome but dumb as a box of rocks who is signed, sealed, and delivered C.O.D. for the facilitation of Business As Usual.

Business As Usual is not Right.

MY hope lies in the Logic that American Military and American Law Enforcement of the Right-Minded and Right-Hearted persuasion . . . nay, CONVICTION . . . will not only not fire upon, but also not IMPEDE THE COMMUNICATION AND MOTION of Right-Minded, Right-Hearted People. Me, in particular. ;)

As of May 2007, per a CREDIBLE SOURCE IN WHAT PASSES FOR GLOBAL SOCIALIZATION AND COMMERCE, women are paid less than men FOR THE SAME JOBS AND WITH THE SAME TRAINING, IN EVERY ONE OF OUR 50 DIS-UNITED STATES. In the same year, our Roman Senators proactively voted NO, NOT YET, EQUAL PAY FOR WOMEN. Blah blah about certain provisions but, get real, that there's the kinda shit that causes DISSENSION IN THE RANKS.

Not only does it CAUSE dissension in the ranks, it MUST derive from some manner of NOT right-minded, NOT right-hearted jockeying for and granting of position. From an economics standpoint, it makes no sense. Ill will in the workforce is akin to domestic disturbance outside the workplace. It's always expensive for everyone. From a moral perspective -- the Justice slant on things -- it is unambiguously wrong.

Ironically, clear-cut and TOTAL Non-Discrimination is the best policy for self-defense, for economics, for governance . . . no doubt, because it is Right-Minded and Right-Hearted.

By the by, on the chance that there ARE any racists and sexists aboard, that clear-cut and TOTAL Non-Discrimination IS the best policy defensively, economically and governmentally does NOT translate to people not having the right, without voluble public derision, to order their private lives precisely as they please. If A, then R. Unless (Less'n in your parts, yes?) Government means to decree that PEOPLE ARE NOT INHERENTLY ENTITLED TO AND ARE HEREBY FORBIDDEN TO HAVE PRIVATE LIVES.

Water seeks its own level - people seek their own kind. Naturally. Cream rises to the top. Disturbed people cause disturbances. I don't give a shit anymore whether I'm Cream or Trouble -- that's what running roughshod over people will eventually produce. People who don't give a shit anymore. That's where we're at. It's down to those who are prepared to say fuck-it-we'll-keep-at-it-and-hopefully-get-'em-in-oh-twelve and those who are prepared to say Fuck It. f I am the only one who thinks and believes-with-conviction and operates as I do, in peaceable pursuit of legitimate happiness that either mirrors or dovetails my own enough sufficiently that we have no desired to kill, abuse, rip off or otherwise harm one another . . . well then, it would appear that the American government is obliged to carve me out my own Personal Palestine. Or one of 'OUR' islands - in the fullness of time, I expect an increasing and not a decreasing number of people to share my views.

Speaking of ceasing to be a Private Citizen, Mr. Change IS obliged to surrender that Blackberry . . . lest emails and messages disappear as surely as did the emails and messages of KARL ROVE and the memory of Alberto Gonzales. Like socks in the dryer.
 
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This is a COMPLETELY separate issue that ALSO brings JUSTICE and COMMON SENSE=LAISSEZ FAIRE ECONOMICS into stark relief.

To keep things simple -- rather than give each split-hair specialty a Name that may or may not be intuitive and that is recognized by only a tiny percentage of the population, so that B.M.O.C. can FEEL like B.M.O.C. -- the flip side of the Laissez Faire Economics coin is Communism.

Communism doesn't work. Period. No sense wastin' precious time in a brief life debating what you already KNOW -- like you and munitions.

Communism fails for a number of reasons, but up there in the Top Ten is the RIDICULOUS proposition of paying people the same amount of money for Labor with different degrees of difficulty and danger. People are people. For the same price, everyone will take the easy way out. So You/notyou have to start picking and choosing people, and COMPEL them to do the heavy lifting. They are SURE to be unhappy with the arrangement.

I give you our Military -- which doesn't even get paid the same, but LESS. I'm telling you, we are behaving like MAD MEN. I don't know whether the people who voted with Obama are still diggin' his action and feelin' the hope, but it is as clear as it can be that he's up to No-Good-Read-That-Business-As-Usual or he is handsome but dumb as a box of rocks who is signed, sealed, and delivered C.O.D. for the facilitation of Business As Usual.

Business As Usual is not Right.

MY hope lies in the Logic that American Military and American Law Enforcement of the Right-Minded and Right-Hearted persuasion . . . nay, CONVICTION . . . will not only not fire upon, but also not IMPEDE THE COMMUNICATION AND MOTION of Right-Minded, Right-Hearted People. Me, in particular. ;)

As of May 2007, per a CREDIBLE SOURCE IN WHAT PASSES FOR GLOBAL SOCIALIZATION AND COMMERCE, women are paid less than men FOR THE SAME JOBS AND WITH THE SAME TRAINING, IN EVERY ONE OF OUR 50 DIS-UNITED STATES. In the same year, our Roman Senators proactively voted NO, NOT YET, EQUAL PAY FOR WOMEN. Blah blah about certain provisions but, get real, that there's the kinda shit that causes DISSENSION IN THE RANKS.

Not only does it CAUSE dissension in the ranks, it MUST derive from some manner of NOT right-minded, NOT right-hearted jockeying for and granting of position. From an economics standpoint, it makes no sense. Ill will in the workforce is akin to domestic disturbance outside the workplace. It's always expensive for everyone. From a moral perspective -- the Justice slant on things -- it is unambiguously wrong.

Ironically, clear-cut and TOTAL Non-Discrimination is the best policy for self-defense, for economics, for governance . . . no doubt, because it is Right-Minded and Right-Hearted.

By the by, on the chance that there ARE any racists and sexists aboard, that clear-cut and TOTAL Non-Discrimination IS the best policy defensively, economically and governmentally does NOT translate to people not having the right, without voluble public derision, to order their private lives precisely as they please. If A, then R. Unless (Less'n in your parts, yes?) Government means to decree that PEOPLE ARE NOT INHERENTLY ENTITLED TO AND ARE HEREBY FORBIDDEN TO HAVE PRIVATE LIVES.

Water seeks its own level - people seek their own kind. Naturally. Cream rises to the top. Disturbed people cause disturbances. I don't give a shit anymore whether I'm Cream or Trouble -- that's what running roughshod over people will eventually produce. People who don't give a shit anymore. That's where we're at. It's down to those who are prepared to say fuck-it-we'll-keep-at-it-and-hopefully-get-'em-in-oh-twelve and those who are prepared to say Fuck It. f I am the only one who thinks and believes-with-conviction and operates as I do, in peaceable pursuit of legitimate happiness that either mirrors or dovetails my own enough sufficiently that we have no desired to kill, abuse, rip off or otherwise harm one another . . . well then, it would appear that the American government is obliged to carve me out my own Personal Palestine. Or one of 'OUR' islands - in the fullness of time, I expect an increasing and not a decreasing number of people to share my views.

Speaking of ceasing to be a Private Citizen, Mr. Change IS obliged to surrender that Blackberry . . . lest emails and messages disappear as surely as did the emails and messages of KARL ROVE and the memory of Alberto Gonzales. Like socks in the dryer.

There are perfectly logical explanations for the (vastly overhyped) "wage gap". Here are a few..

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig6/sennholz4.html
http://www.lewrockwell.com/mcelroy/mcelroy62.html
http://www.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo160.html
 
As of May 2007, per a CREDIBLE SOURCE IN WHAT PASSES FOR GLOBAL SOCIALIZATION AND COMMERCE, women are paid less than men FOR THE SAME JOBS AND WITH THE SAME TRAINING, IN EVERY ONE OF OUR 50 DIS-UNITED STATES. In the same year, our Roman Senators proactively voted NO, NOT YET, EQUAL PAY FOR WOMEN. Blah blah about certain provisions but, get real, that there's the kinda shit that causes DISSENSION IN THE RANKS.

Did this report also state that the women were working the same hours as the men, in addition to the already mentioned same job and same training? Is this based on hourly wage, or total yearly salary, or what? Because, you know, the stuff in the OP got me thinking about the possibility that women take more time off than men. I mean, if there's a family emergency or a kid is sick or something, it does seem more likely that the woman may take off from work early (thereby missing out on some hours otherwise worked) to handle the situation, rather than the man.
 
A lot of this is common sense. I have to ask the women: how often has junior been sick and daddy stayed home to make him/her soup instead of mommy?

I have to say, my dad is not exactly the most masculine male, and it would have been kind of weird to have him stay home instead of mom (of course my mom stays at home anyway).

From the stated position, IT FOLLOWS that Single Fatherless men should be paid the MOST, for having the fewest distractions/complications and therefore, logically, the greatest energy and focus on matters Work Related. Their minds are free to whiz at electronic speed, all hours of the day and night . . . go, go, go, fastest rat in the pack . . . while other (supposedly, HA!) Company Men take toddlers to the zoo.

Conventional Husband/Father types -- who in reality are paid MORE, via tax advantages -- can argue that the touchy-feely fulfillment of being a Family Man ENHANCES their productivity during On Hours. But the "other side" will argue, in the time-honored circular fashion, that Family Men have just supported the argument that Single Fatherless Men are making, i.e. that Family Men are MORE apt to have divided mental energies, even AT work.
 
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Did this report also state that the women were working the same hours as the men, in addition to the already mentioned same job and same training? Is this based on hourly wage, or total yearly salary, or what? Because, you know, the stuff in the OP got me thinking about the possibility that women take more time off than men. I mean, if there's a family emergency or a kid is sick or something, it does seem more likely that the woman may take off from work early (thereby missing out on some hours otherwise worked) to handle the situation, rather than the man.

see the links in post 90 of this thread for more details.
 
Did this report also state that the women were working the same hours as the men, in addition to the already mentioned same job and same training? Is this based on hourly wage, or total yearly salary, or what? Because, you know, the stuff in the OP got me thinking about the possibility that women take more time off than men. I mean, if there's a family emergency or a kid is sick or something, it does seem more likely that the woman may take off from work early (thereby missing out on some hours otherwise worked) to handle the situation, rather than the man.

One of my favorite posters -- hanging on a wall, not typing on a keyboard -- read thusly:

I can only help one person at a time.
Today doesn't look good for you.
Neither does tomorrow.



I HAVE the back issue, but digging it out isn't a priority. Time or Newsweek -- U.S. News & World Report, at the outside -- May 2007. Bought in an airport -- given their early-read-that-invalid publication dates, I can't be off by more than a month.

IT DOESN'T MATTER, THOUGH. YOU DO SEE THAT, RIGHT?

If you do not, then you identify yourself as a White Man.

In the same year, the United States Senate proactively voted NO, NOT YET, EQUAL PAY FOR WOMEN. It doesn't get much clearer than that.
 
My my mom is a head surgeon at a public hospital. She earns quite a bit and more than my father did as a surgeon. What they earn now who knows.... they've been working for decades and might retire soon. What I've seen is there isn't a whole lot of difference in these high paying jobs but with their divorce and all people like to make a huge deal over what difference is there.
 
IT DOESN'T MATTER, THOUGH. YOU DO SEE THAT, RIGHT?

If you do not, then you identify yourself as a White Man.

It doesn't matter where you get your information, or how your sources compiled their statistics? So I just have to take your word for it then? Okie-doke. :rolleyes:

By the way, yes, I am a white male. What's your point?
 
It doesn't matter where you get your information, or how your sources compiled their statistics? So I just have to take your word for it then? Okie-doke. :rolleyes:

YOU are rolling YOUR eyes? Good one. You are asking me to spoon feed information from a source you view as tainted. As the Interbrats are fond of saying, DO YOUR OWN HOMEWORK.

You are not supposed to take MY word for ANYTHING. Nor Ron Paul's word, by the way. You're supposed to THINK and reach YOUR OWN conclusions.


By the way, yes, I am a white male. What's your point?

In the Discriminatory Pay paradigm, White Men are historically and overwhelmingly the Top Earners. Libertarians will know from their feverish study of our Constitution that its Framers did, in fact, pen that sucker with disproportionate advantage and protection falling to, not surprisingly, the Class of which they were members. Landed White Male Gentry.

Everyone else has been tryin' to wrest Justice And Equality For All outta their cold, live hands ever since. It is almost always a White Man who denies that UNMISTAKABLE Pay Disparity exists in America. Ask someone other than White Guys.
 
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My my mom is a head surgeon at a public hospital. She earns quite a bit and more than my father did as a surgeon. What they earn now who knows.... they've been working for decades and might retire soon. What I've seen is there isn't a whole lot of difference in these high paying jobs but with their divorce and all people like to make a huge deal over what difference is there.

Is your father likewise a "head" surgeon -- same specialty, same years of experience, same patient load, same position in the hospital hierarchy?

Plus, it doesn't much matter. TWO SURGEONS as principal breadwinners for the same family unit is so infrequent an occurrence as to have little bearing on Social Formulas.
 
It is almost always a White Man who denies that UNMISTAKABLE Pay Disparity exists in America.

I don't think it's that big of a deal.

My mom worked while I was growing up after the 4th grade, because she made more money than my dad. It was cheaper for him to stay home.

My in-laws are the same way.

I have never really met anyone in RL who could prove that this even exist by their experiences. Everyone knows that statistics are 99.9% made up. See, just like that. Could you prove it? Nope.

Has anyone asked you your income info for statistics?

They've never asked anyone I have ever met. Kinda funny, huh?
 
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