Why lack of Participation from C4L Members??

[mozarkriver]

They only put that in place to try to get rid of some of the spammers and trolls.

This is not exactly true. There are security features on the website that stop spammers and trolls. The $35 fee was not intended to do that.

More accurately, they say that the $35 is a filter to get rid of some of the more nutty people who were involved in the presidential campaign. Alternatively, there are many good people who would be good leaders but won't pay the $35, and so are not involved. Many of them have already gone back to their couches. So the filter theory is a bust in my opinion...it filters out too many good people.

I think if we really want to grow this movement we need to seriously re-evaluate the business model here and abandon membership fees. I think C4L would make a lot more money on merchandise than they do on membership fees if they would just expand the membership base and have a more professional looking store with more/better merchandise.

Blockbuster movies always make more money selling merchandise than they do selling movie tickets...but if the ticket price is too high and nobody goes to the movies you won't sell any merchandise either.

I think the best/easiest way to grow the membership would be to eliminate membership fees, have open elections of leadership with ALL members having voting rights, and allow the grass roots to elect the national board, with state organizations exercising complete autonomy.

The top down approach has scared off many people.

 

[Minarchy4Sale]

Its simple. C4L is run by a bunch of lamers who are more interested in maintaining activism jobs than in making any real changes... Honestly, the only time I hear from C4L it involves me giving them money... Which I wouldnt mind if they were spending it on real media stuff... instead of overhead on a gaggle of Paul worshippers who just want to get paid for what the rest of us do for free.

 

[mozarkriver]

To be fair, I don't think anyone is getting rich working for C4L, though I don't know the salary of everyone working there. They work hard and earn what they do make. I just don't agree with the way the organization is structured.

 

[LittleLightShining]

I think the best/easiest way to grow the membership would be to eliminate membership fees, have open elections of leadership with ALL members having voting rights, and allow the grass roots to elect the national board, with state organizations exercising complete autonomy.

The top down approach has scared off many people.

To add to this, the fact that HQ has changed it's course from supposedly being a bottom up educational AND political organization to a top down, centrally planned political group has really hurt our efforts here in VT. We had a focus and a direction and we were making headway and receiving a lot of recognition for our rapid growth. Well, our growth has stagnated and in large part it's because of the mess from the top.

We thought we would be an autonomous state group, connected to other state groups by our main principles, not a handful of people in Washington monitoring us to make sure we're using the website enough and not using the letterhead.

It's really frustrating to me that we're expected to get a specific number of people to sign up, pay the dues and commit to a list of activities before we can really define who we are. And then, as in my case, I joined being led to believe it's one thing, have taken the name Vermont Campaign For Liberty with me everywhere I go (as have all of us here), built it into a recognizable group, stressed the non-partisan, educational and political activity nature of our group, brought in new people and now, well, it's not that anymore? It's a party-oriented group only and go join the JBS if you care about education?

That will not work here. If we do not take the time to educate people-- in the party and out-- we will get nowhere. Every time I get together with activists of different stripes for whatever purpose I hear a common theme-- "You guys are doing the right thing by being non-partisan in VT. We need to educate the younger people about responsibility and the Constitution. Both parties have lost their way and the people need to hear the truth."

I haven't had coffee yet and I''m starting to ramble but personally I'm feeling a little used and abused by national. The change from being a political and educational group to just a political group really ticks me off. I'll probably be back later to tie up the loose ends in my post :o

 

[LibertyEagle]

This is not exactly true. There are security features on the website that stop spammers and trolls. The $35 fee was not intended to do that.

More accurately, they say that the $35 is a filter to get rid of some of the more nutty people who were involved in the presidential campaign. Alternatively, there are many good people who would be good leaders but won't pay the $35, and so are not involved. Many of them have already gone back to their couches. So the filter theory is a bust in my opinion...it filters out too many good people.

I think if we really want to grow this movement we need to seriously re-evaluate the business model here and abandon membership fees. I think C4L would make a lot more money on merchandise than they do on membership fees if they would just expand the membership base and have a more professional looking store with more/better merchandise.

Blockbuster movies always make more money selling merchandise than they do selling movie tickets...but if the ticket price is too high and nobody goes to the movies you won't sell any merchandise either.

What shoots your premise is the fact that you do not have to pay any membership fees whatsoever to participate in C4L. The membership fee is only required if you want to become a precinct leader. If someone isn't committed enough to fork up $35, then I doubt they care too much about being a precinct leader. Do you? If you know some dedicated, great individual whom you believe does not have the $35, then I am quite sure that people here would be willing to pay it for them.

As an aside, I've personally offered to pay this fee for a handful of people that I've seen on here complaining about this fee. NOT A ONE took me up on the offer.

I think the best/easiest way to grow the membership would be to eliminate membership fees, have open elections of leadership with ALL members having voting rights, and allow the grass roots to elect the national board, with state organizations exercising complete autonomy.

Sounds like a wonderful way to destroy an organization of this sort, in one fell blow. Tell me, what would stop those who want to see our movement fail, from jumping in there and voting a national board full of neocons? Eh? RON PAUL CHOSE THE BOARD. Apparently, he wanted people he knew he could trust.

The top down approach has scared off many people.

From what I understand, it's not top-down like you describe at all. Once you build your state organization up, you can choose your own leaders. Once you build your state organization, it's YOUR choice whether or not you want to associate your organization with C4L. If you do not think it will benefit you, then don't. No one is forcing you to do anything.

 

[LittleLightShining]

From what I understand, it's not top-down like you describe at all. Once you build your state organization up, you can choose your own leaders. Once you build your state organization, it's YOUR choice whether or not you want to associate your organization with C4L. If you do not think it will benefit you, then don't. No one is forcing you to do anything.

For what it's worth, LE, we've spent an awful lot of time and energy here in VT building up the VTC4l and now we're being told that what we're doing, and have done all along, and were praised for doing just 6 months ago(!) is the wrong approach and we need to do what they want us to do. At least, this is my understanding after reading the new documents that govern our future affiliation.

 

[LibertyEagle]

I think you should talk to them about it and get it cleared up.

 

[Matt Collins]

To be fair, I don't think anyone is getting rich working for C4L, though I don't know the salary of everyone working there.

I've been told differently by a source I trust. But I've been unable to verify it, neither has anyone else to my knowledge. They keep the books closed which I kind of find a bit hypocritical, but whatever.

Honestly however I don't have a problem with someone who is working for the CFL and making good money doing so, as long as the goals are being reached, and results are being generated. But transparency would be nice.

 

[ingrid]

I've been told differently by a source I trust. But I've been unable to verify it, neither has anyone else to my knowledge. They keep the books closed which I kind of find a bit hypocritical, but whatever.

Honestly however I don't have a problem with someone who is working for the CFL and making good money doing so, as long as the goals are being reached, and results are being generated. But transparency would be nice.

You could check their 990 form to see if it's true.

 

[Matt Collins]

You could check their 990 form to see if it's true.

Really? How do I do that?

 

[sluggo]

One issue I have with the C4L is that they seem to spend so much on direct mailings.
Pretty expensive, and I'm not sure how effective it is in the internet age.

Seems like direct mail appeals mainly to the geriatric crowd, who generally identify with the GOP status quo.

 

[mozarkriver]

Really? How do I do that?

By law a nonprofit must give anyone that requests it a copy of their 990.

 

[Objectivist]

You didn't have my category listed.

 

[mozarkriver]

One issue I have with the C4L is that they seem to spend so much on direct mailings.
Pretty expensive, and I'm not sure how effective it is in the internet age.

Seems like direct mail appeals mainly to the geriatric crowd, who generally identify with the GOP status quo.

They are raising hundreds of thousands of dollars on these direct mail campaigns. This is the main source of funding right now. However I don't think its a source that can be counted on forever...they need to figure out a more sustainable way to generate income.

 

[Matt Collins]

One issue I have with the C4L is that they seem to spend so much on direct mailings.
Pretty expensive, and I'm not sure how effective it is in the internet age.

Seems like direct mail appeals mainly to the geriatric crowd, who generally identify with the GOP status quo.

They are raising hundreds of thousands of dollars on these direct mail campaigns. This is the main source of funding right now. However I don't think its a source that can be counted on forever...they need to figure out a more sustainable way to generate income.

Yes, but they need to get their database managed better. For instance everytime they send something out I get two of them. That's kind of a waste of postage. Also, they should look at those who have and who have not donated, and if after 3 attempts to get someone to donate, they should get taken off of the request-for-donation list.

 

[mport1]

Other - I've come to the conclusion that national politics is pretty futile and would rather concentrate on something that has a greater possibility of success like the Free State Project.

 

[Volitzer]

I was looking at the CFL membership numbers for Florida and I noticed something disturbing. Out of almost 9,000 members we only have 115 participating Precinct Leaders for the entire state. Rule of thumb for any organized group is that 20% do all the work while the rest sit on their butts and do nothing. If the norm were to hold true for us we should have about 2,000 leaders statewide. I have to ask myself why anyone would join our cause and then do nothing? The whole point of the CFL is to create an activist leader in every precinct in the county and the numbers in Florida are dismal. Is it the 35 bucks a year fee? Lets see, that comes to less than 10 cents a day. Is it possible our people are so poor we can't afford 10 cents a day. Is it fear? laziness? No time?
I would love to hear from anyone that can explain this to me.

If you vote "Other" in the Poll, sound off and let us know the reason. Inquiring minds want to know

I joined the Constitution Party and keep an eye out for CFL and Ron Paul meetup groups.

I am in Jacksonville and meet plenty of members of RP meetup groups but never see it where they have meetings.

I was thinking of having Constitution Party recruitment sessions...

My girlfriend lost her job so helping her through this is going to be an under-taking. She worked at a bank.

So in a way it never ends.

 

[Brassmouth]

Other.

I spend my time doing productive things instead of wasting it jacking off the State with a lobbying organization.

 

[Baptist]

I am a dues paying member of CFL. However, I am not a Local Coordinator or Precinct Leader. Why? Because one of the requirements states that you have to recruit one leader per year. This is the only reason that I'm not one. Everything else I do. I go to at least one public event a month (town halls, meetings, public gatherings) and spread the word about liberty on campus every week. When I do it, I do it as a representative of CFL. CFL is not aware that I'm doing all this stuff, I just print up materials and do it on my own.

Why am I a representative of CFL when I'm out advocating liberty? Because, where else am I going to send the sheeple to? Am I supposed to send all the Fox News sheeple and senior citizens who frequent these town hall meetings to Mises.org or RPF? I want to send these sheeple to the most user friendly liberty site that I can find, and that is Campaign For Liberty's.

When I meet people who are already liberty-oriented, or people who have half a brain, then I tell them to go to Liberty Forest. But for the most part all of my literature tells people to go to Campaign For Liberty's site, because I believe that is the best way for these sheeple to get sucked into the liberty movement. CFL allows them to see how their representatives voted, how to contact their representatives, as well as some other great features.

I will continue to pay at least $35 a year because I believe CFL is a good organization. Even though I am not a coordinator or leader (because of the one year recruiting requirement), I will continue to advocate liberty on Campaign for Liberty's behalf. ( I believe that I do more work than a lot of CFL's coordinators and leaders even though I don't have that title).

I wish that everyone here would at least sign up to the site and create a profile so that CFL's site does not look so dead. In my district, only 3 people have bothered to even create a profile.

 

[dr. hfn]

I think the C4L is kicking ass. I would love to see a new site launched and a big advertising/media blitz with it!