Why Judge Reinhardt’s opinion on same sex marriage is dangerous to our Republic!

johnwk

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Why Judge Reinhardt’s opinion on same sex marriage is dangerous to our Republic!

. .
One of the most important provisions in our Constitution is that judges and Justices are bound by the very words of our Constitution to support and defend “this Constitution”! The Court is not given the latitude when deciding upon the constitutionality of a law to base its opinion on its personal judgment call if the law in question furthers any “legitimate purpose” or promotes the values of the State. By contrast, there are a number of constitutions which do give the Court this very despotic authority, e.g., under Israel’s Basic Law: “Human Dignity and Liberty” we find a number of rights listed and secured. But then, under No.8, “Violation of rights” we find:

”There shall be no violation of rights under this Basic Law except by a law befitting the values of the State of Israel, enacted for a proper purpose, and to an extent no greater than is required.”

This constitutionally authorized power in effect makes the previous rights listed in Israel’s Basic Law meaningless and subject to the mere discretion and fancies of the court. But that authority, one which intentionally allows Israel's judges to determine if a law promotes the values of the State of Israel and is enacted for a "proper purpose", is not a power granted to our judges and Justices, although they have despotically exercised such power over the years beginning with the Warren Court of the 1960s and it is now used by the court to blatantly and with impunity decide what a law should be instead of the court deciding if a law is in harmony with the documented intentions under which our constitution’s, federal and state, were adopted. In effect, the power when exercised by the court today is both arbitrary and capricious and is openly used by the court to circumvent the will of the people as expressed in a written Constitution, while assuming an unaccountable and despotic legislative authority.

After studying the 9th Circuit Court opinion written by Judge Reinhardt, it becomes alarmingly clear that Judge Reinhardt never demonstrated from the debates of the 39th Congress which framed the 14th Amendment that it forbids a State to make distinctions based upon sex when issuing a marriage license. Judge Reinhardt simply asserted “defendants have failed to demonstrate that these laws further any legitimate purpose, they unjustifiably discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation, and are in violation of the Equal Protection Clause.” See page 44 of Reinhardt’s opinion. In fact, it is Judge Reinhardt who failed to demonstrate the legislative intent of the 14th Amendment is in harmony with his personal views and he assumed a despotic power to judge what a law should be.


But Judge Reinhardt is not clothed with authority by our Constitution to judge if a law passed by a State furthers any legitimate purpose. That authority is placed in the hands of the Legislature or law making body and includes our system’s amendment process in which the people may decide to make necessary changes to their constitution to accommodate changing times __ see Article V of the Constitution of the United States!

It is not obvious that Judge Reinhardt has ignored a fundamental principle stated by our Supreme Court which wrote:

”… we are not at liberty to second-guess congressional determinations and policy judgments of this order, however debatable or arguably unwise they may be…The wisdom of Congress' action, however, is not within our province to second guess.”___ ELDRED et al. v. ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL (2003)

In fact, Judge Reinhardt failed, or intentionally avoided to substantiate his assertion that a state is forbidden by the 14th Amendment, to make distinctions based upon sex, or sexual orientation when issuing a marriage license. Instead, he took it upon himself to arbitrarily declare ”… defendants have failed to demonstrate that these laws further any legitimate purpose, they unjustifiably discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation, and are in violation of the Equal Protection Clause.”

If this ruling is allowed to stand, our Constitution becomes a meaningless document, including the various provisions intended to restrict federal government actions, e.g., see the first ten amendments, which would then be subject to the courts arbitrary predilections, its views of fairness, reasonableness or justice, even when the Court is in direct conflict with the expressed intentions under which the people of the United States adopted a particular provision such as the 14th Amendment which was never, even remotely, intended to forbid state laws which make distinctions based upon sex when issuing a marriage license.

The bottom line is, Judge Reinhardt’s opinion is judicial tyranny at its worst and he ought to be immediately removed from the bench and severely punished to set an example for other judges and Justices who have, and intend to supplant their personal views of fairness, reasonableness or justice as court ordered law while shredding the very document which the people adopted to protect themselves from judicial tyranny.

JWK


"The public welfare demands that constitutional cases must be decided according to the terms of the Constitution itself, and not according to judges' views of fairness, reasonableness, or justice." -- Justice Hugo L. Black ( U.S. Supreme Court Justice, 1886 - 1971) Source: Lecture, Columbia University, 1968
 
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational_basis_review

History is rife with stupid laws that have been struck down by the Court. Now I'm not passing judgment on this topic, but merely commenting that it's a good thing that there are, in fact, limits to the legislative branch.

. .
One of the most important provisions in our Constitution is that judges and Justices are bound by the very words of our Constitution to support and defend “this Constitution”! The Court is not given the latitude when deciding upon the constitutionality of a law to base its opinion on its personal judgment call if the law in question furthers any “legitimate purpose” or promotes the values of the State. By contrast, there are a number of constitutions which do give the Court this very despotic authority, e.g., under Israel’s Basic Law: “Human Dignity and Liberty” we find a number of rights listed and secured. But then, under No.8, “Violation of rights” we find:

”There shall be no violation of rights under this Basic Law except by a law befitting the values of the State of Israel, enacted for a proper purpose, and to an extent no greater than is required.”

This constitutionally authorized power in effect makes the previous rights listed in Israel’s Basic Law meaningless and subject to the mere discretion and fancies of the court. But that authority, one which intentionally allows Israel's judges to determine if a law promotes the values of the State of Israel and is enacted for a "proper purpose", is not a power granted to our judges and Justices, although they have despotically exercised such power over the years beginning with the Warren Court of the 1960s and it is now used by the court to blatantly and with impunity decide what a law should be instead of the court deciding if a law is in harmony with the documented intentions under which our constitution’s, federal and state, were adopted. In effect, the power when exercised by the court today is both arbitrary and capricious and is openly used by the court to circumvent the will of the people as expressed in a written Constitution, while assuming an unaccountable and despotic legislative authority.

After studying the 9th Circuit Court opinion written by Judge Reinhardt, it becomes alarmingly clear that Judge Reinhardt never demonstrated from the debates of the 39th Congress which framed the 14th Amendment that it forbids a State to make distinctions based upon sex when issuing a marriage license. Judge Reinhardt simply asserted “defendants have failed to demonstrate that these laws further any legitimate purpose, they unjustifiably discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation, and are in violation of the Equal Protection Clause.” See page 44 of Reinhardt’s opinion. In fact, it is Judge Reinhardt who failed to demonstrate the legislative intent of the 14th Amendment is in harmony with his personal views and he assumed a despotic power to judge what a law should be.


But Judge Reinhardt is not clothed with authority by our Constitution to judge if a law passed by a State furthers any legitimate purpose. That authority is placed in the hands of the Legislature or law making body and includes our system’s amendment process in which the people may decide to make necessary changes to their constitution to accommodate changing times __ see Article V of the Constitution of the United States!

It is not obvious that Judge Reinhardt has ignored a fundamental principle stated by our Supreme Court which wrote:

”… we are not at liberty to second-guess congressional determinations and policy judgments of this order, however debatable or arguably unwise they may be…The wisdom of Congress' action, however, is not within our province to second guess.”___ ELDRED et al. v. ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL (2003)

In fact, Judge Reinhardt failed, or intentionally avoided to substantiate his assertion that a state is forbidden by the 14th Amendment, to make distinctions based upon sex, or sexual orientation when issuing a marriage license. Instead, he took it upon himself to arbitrarily declare ”… defendants have failed to demonstrate that these laws further any legitimate purpose, they unjustifiably discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation, and are in violation of the Equal Protection Clause.”

If this ruling is allowed to stand, our Constitution becomes a meaningless document, including the various provisions intended to restrict federal government actions, e.g., see the first ten amendments, which would then be subject to the courts arbitrary predilections, its views of fairness, reasonableness or justice, even when the Court is in direct conflict with the expressed intentions under which the people of the United States adopted a particular provision such as the 14th Amendment which was never, even remotely, intended to forbid state laws which make distinctions based upon sex when issuing a marriage license.

The bottom line is, Judge Reinhardt’s opinion is judicial tyranny at its worst and he ought to be immediately removed from the bench and severely punished to set an example for other judges and Justices who have, and intend to supplant their personal views of fairness, reasonableness or justice as court ordered law while shredding the very document which the people adopted to protect themselves from judicial tyranny.

JWK


"The public welfare demands that constitutional cases must be decided according to the terms of the Constitution itself, and not according to judges' views of fairness, reasonableness, or justice." -- Justice Hugo L. Black ( U.S. Supreme Court Justice, 1886 - 1971) Source: Lecture, Columbia University, 1968
 
I was thinking Judge Reinhold when I read the title of the OP.

Judge_Reinhold_from_Fast_Times.jpg
 
History is rife with stupid laws that have been struck down by the Court. .

We are here talking about the Court ignoring the very intentions under which the 14th amendment was adopted and imposing its personal opinion as to what the Amendment should mean. Why have a constitution of the court can make the constitution mean whatever it wants it to mean?


JWK
 
Maybe by preventing government from restricting marriage the way it wants we will be able to get government out entirely. I could certainly make a case to Christians that they are better off with NO government marriage than they are with government marriage that is contrary to the Bible.
 
How about sticking to the subject of the thread?

The primary question to be answered is: Does the 14th Amendment forbid distinctions based upon sex as Judge Reinhardt alleges?

The fact is, Judge Reinhardt merely asserted but never confirmed with documentation from the 39th Congress which framed the 14th Amendment that it forbids a state to make distinctions based upon sex, or “sexual orientation” when issuing a marriage license. What we do know and cannot be successfully refuted when reading the 39th Congressional debates is that the 14th Amendment was intended to forbid State legislation which made distinctions based upon race, color or previous condition slavery. It was not meant to be a rule to bar every imaginable kind of “discrimination” and certainly not intended to be a rule to forbid distinctions based upon sex or “sexual orientation”. How do I know my above assertions are true aside from reading the Congressional debates? Let us take a look at the very next amendment added to the Constitution, the 15th Amendment.

Is it not a fact that the 15th Amendment was adopted to prohibit a new type of discrimination? Discrimination at the voting booth ---forbidding discrimination at the voting booth to be based upon “race, color, or previous condition of servitude“, while sex was not included in the protection?


The argument that the 14th Amendment prohibits state discrimination based upon sex or “sexual orientation” is proven to be without foundation when reading the 19th Amendment which specifically forbids a new kind of discrimination. In this Amendment, the People of America as authorized under Article V of our Constitution decide to forbid sex discrimination, the discrimination mentioned Judge Reinhardt, but only extend the prohibition with respect to the right to vote being “denied or abridged” on account of “sex”!



Finally, if Judge Reinhardt is correct in asserting the people of American have forbidden state legislation which makes distinctions based upon sex or sexual orientation when issuing a state marriage license, why was there a proposed “Equal Rights Amendment” (ERA) proposed in 1972, specifically stating, "Equality of rights under the law shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of sex"?


The truth is, the American People, as provided in Article V of our Constitution, intentionally rejected the ERA amendment, and one of the reasons was, if adopted it would force the States to embrace homosexual marriage!


And so, instead of Judge Reinhardt abiding by its oath to support and defend “this Constitution” he took it upon himself to falsely assert a state law making a distinction based upon sex when issuing a marriage license was a “violation of the Equal Protection Clause” of the 14th Amendment.

If those who support requiring the States to issue homosexual marriage licenses, and you also support our constitutionally limited system of government, then why not work within our Constitution’s framework and promote an amendment to our Constitution to achieve your purported goals?

For example, why not work to have the following amendment adopted and denounce federal judges and Justices who ignore our Constitution and impose their arbitrary sense of fairness, reasonableness, or justice as court ordered law which is nothing less than judicial tyranny?


AMENDMENT _ _ _

SECTION 1


No state shall make distinctions based upon sex when issuing a state marriage license nor deny the equal protection of its laws within its jurisdiction to married couples.

SECTION 2

The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation



Why do homosexuals think they are better than Blacks who struggled to end state laws which made distinctions based upon race by having amendments added to our Constitution? Why do homosexuals constantly complain but refuse to work within the four walls of our Constitution to achieve their goal by amending our Constitutions? Instead of following the constitutional rout, why do homosexuals rejoice when judges and Justices engage in judicial tyranny as did Judge Reinhardt who decided to ignore the very Constitution he took an oath to support and defend?

JWK


"The public welfare demands that constitutional cases must be decided according to the terms of the Constitution itself, and not according to judges' views of fairness, reasonableness, or justice." -- Justice Hugo L. Black ( U.S. Supreme Court Justice, 1886 - 1971) Source: Lecture, Columbia University, 1968
 
How does an institution remain in power? It does so by dividing those they hold power over from ever coming together. How do they hold power? They grant special privilege to one group and not another. Voila. Division. They know that in the heart of most individuals there is a petty tyrant. Give some a bit of power and an enemy to fight against and they know that those without privilege will fight those that have privilege. In this way they will be safe in their halls while those they hold power over fight for the bones and dinner scraps from their dinner plate.
 
Maybe by preventing government from restricting marriage the way it wants we will be able to get government out entirely. I could certainly make a case to Christians that they are better off with NO government marriage than they are with government marriage that is contrary to the Bible.

I guess the pragmatic question would be whether government sanctioned gay marriage would lead to what we want (which is no govt. involvement in marriage) or if it would just lead to more slavery and tyranny. I oppose "gay marriage" because I fear the latter is the case.
 
Yup, this circuit court opinion is the ONE that's a threat to the Republic. Before letting the gays marry, there was never a court decision on this level or higher that ever expanded protections to positive rights/privileges. Everything just just fine before this decision, Constitutionally. Sure, there may have been some issues at the edges, but the core structure of the Republic has been secure all along.

/sarcasm

Seriously, if you think that this decision threatens the stability of "your Republic" - then I hope that it falls. Quickly.
 
I guess the pragmatic question would be whether government sanctioned gay marriage would lead to what we want (which is no govt. involvement in marriage) or if it would just lead to more slavery and tyranny. I oppose "gay marriage" because I fear the latter is the case.

Case 1: no gay marriage. There's marginally extra bureaucrats employed in every county in the country to make sure that each marriage certificate doesn't have same-sex couples on it. There's more investigations into insurance fraud for same-sex couples trying to get spousal benefits. There are more un-adopted kids on the state dole because two people of the same sex can't be trusted to raise them to not be pedophiles or serial killers. There are "legitimate state reasons" to inquire about every person seeking a marriage, granting them continued legitimacy in micro-managing the population. There are continued protests, court cases, and general civil unrest over "inequality" in the laws. Also, you're placing yourself with a minority of people and activists who are shrinking as a percent of the population, making it harder to find people who sympathize with your positions on other issues.

Case 2: Gay Marriage allowed: Marriage licenses are largely a formality. More kids can be adopted into private care. State tax law and employment benefits turn into a basic "+ 1" policy. The state's role in marriage is limited by society to a strictly epidemiological role (this is still too large, I think we'll agree). And those upset over this policy either lead more focused, productive lives, or turn to protesting more egregious violations (maybe they'll start supporting higher minimum wage protests, but they may also become more active in the anti-war mission). Also, if you support gay marriage, you may influence more to form coalitions with you on your issues in the future.

Supporting gay marriage seems to be the better pragmatic option if you're concerned about gov't overreach, growing the private sector, freeing up people to discuss and focus on more important political battles, and growing the number of people that are willing to work with you on those other battles.
 
Case 1: no gay marriage. There's marginally extra bureaucrats employed in every county in the country to make sure that each marriage certificate doesn't have same-sex couples on it. There's more investigations into insurance fraud for same-sex couples trying to get spousal benefits. There are more un-adopted kids on the state dole because two people of the same sex can't be trusted to raise them to not be pedophiles or serial killers. There are "legitimate state reasons" to inquire about every person seeking a marriage, granting them continued legitimacy in micro-managing the population. There are continued protests, court cases, and general civil unrest over "inequality" in the laws. Also, you're placing yourself with a minority of people and activists who are shrinking as a percent of the population, making it harder to find people who sympathize with your positions on other issues.

Case 2: Gay Marriage allowed: Marriage licenses are largely a formality. More kids can be adopted into private care. State tax law and employment benefits turn into a basic "+ 1" policy. The state's role in marriage is limited by society to a strictly epidemiological role (this is still too large, I think we'll agree). And those upset over this policy either lead more focused, productive lives, or turn to protesting more egregious violations (maybe they'll start supporting higher minimum wage protests, but they may also become more active in the anti-war mission). Also, if you support gay marriage, you may influence more to form coalitions with you on your issues in the future.

Supporting gay marriage seems to be the better pragmatic option if you're concerned about gov't overreach, growing the private sector, freeing up people to discuss and focus on more important political battles, and growing the number of people that are willing to work with you on those other battles.

Great points.
 
How does an institution remain in power? It does so by dividing those they hold power over from ever coming together. How do they hold power? They grant special privilege to one group and not another. Voila. Division. They know that in the heart of most individuals there is a petty tyrant. Give some a bit of power and an enemy to fight against and they know that those without privilege will fight those that have privilege. In this way they will be safe in their halls while those they hold power over fight for the bones and dinner scraps from their dinner plate.

What does all that have to do with the subject of the thread?


JWK
 
I guess the pragmatic question would be whether government sanctioned gay marriage would lead to what we want (which is no govt. involvement in marriage) or if it would just lead to more slavery and tyranny. I oppose "gay marriage" because I fear the latter is the case.

What does that have to do with the subject of the thread which is a despotic opinion written by Judge Reinhardt. If you are not interested in the subject, why post in the thread?


JWK
 
Yup, this circuit court opinion is the ONE that's a threat to the Republic. Before letting the gays marry, there was never a court decision on this level or higher that ever expanded protections to positive rights/privileges. Everything just just fine before this decision, Constitutionally. Sure, there may have been some issues at the edges, but the core structure of the Republic has been secure all along.

/sarcasm

Seriously, if you think that this decision threatens the stability of "your Republic" - then I hope that it falls. Quickly.

So, you have no problem with our courts ignoring the Constitution and imposing their personal opinions as the rule of law?


JWK
 
You're worried about a "republic's" fate over 140 years after the 14th amendment. How cute.

You don't live in a republic.
 
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