Why I've changed my mind.

[ClockwiseSpark]

McCain couldn't re-energize the GOP if he tried....Palin has done a better job of that.

We have a better chance of gaining ground with McCain than we do with Obama, thats a fact. Conservatives, while they don't like McCain, will vote with him becasue a vote for Obama is out of the question. Obama would have a super majority in the house...and we could NOT counter that. At least McCain would bring SOME balance....

Again, I'm no troll, I'm no shill...I'm just looking at the dire consequences should Obama win.

Those dire consequences will drive more people towards us. They have in my area already. We are working with liberals, libertarians and conservatives. The GOP officers and elite continue to tow the party line and the people hate them. I will not work with people like that nor will I empower them.

If you mess with shit, you're going to get it on you.

 

[nodope0695]

If you mess with shit, you're going to get it on you.

I am...in a world...of shit!

 

[ClockwiseSpark]

 

[Time for Change]

ClockwiseSpark
you are contradicting yourself quite a bit here lately.
One post you are getting backstabbed and making no progress
the next you are making significant gains with liberals, independents and conservatives

Which is it?

You are spending an awful lot of time on here working to discredit everyone that says they will not vote third party...what good is it doing you?
Who benefits from all your effort?

If you get your way, and people follow your lead, you take votes away from the GOP.
"Yay! We took 4% from the GOP, and handed the election to the democrats, YAY!"
"Oh wait, where did my paycheck go...NO FAIR...this administration sucks...oh the suffering"
"But I voted 3rd party, I shouldn't suffer this" But you get it anyway.

You not only punish the GOP with your tactic...you punish the rest of the american people by giving them a liberal socialist who WILL tax the shit out of us to finance his trickle up economics theory.
A theory that guarantees that everyone has less money, less hits the economy, the economy drops faster...and well, you should be able to see the outcome. We all suffer just like the left side wants...everybody suffers the same.
We get a nice little attack on capitalism and the free markets while we are at it...because every liberal knows how evil that system is.
Sure, go ahead and increase the capital gains tax on the investments I made to secure my retirement income. I can come to the government and apply for social security, if it still exists, and live comfortably at the poverty level, just below inflation.
Kibbles and bits are pretty good anyway.
Lucky us.

Don't blame ClockwiseSpark though, he voted third party, so it's not his fault.

If that is NOT a push for the liberal socialist cause, I don't know what is.

Keep up the good work.
You have the weekend and a few hours remaining to convince as many people as you can to give their votes to the democrat party.
Better get crackin'....time's a wastin'

Oh...and be certain to post some more drivel and useless pictures to get that post count increased so you can project authority evidenced by your high post count.

 

[moostraks]

Voting For McCain Is Endorsing Corruption

ClockwiseSpark
you are contradicting yourself quite a bit here lately.
One post you are getting backstabbed and making no progress
the next you are making significant gains with liberals, independents and conservatives

Which is it?

You are spending an awful lot of time on here working to discredit everyone that says they will not vote third party...what good is it doing you?
Who benefits from all your effort?

If you get your way, and people follow your lead, you take votes away from the GOP.
"Yay! We took 4% from the GOP, and handed the election to the democrats, YAY!"
"Oh wait, where did my paycheck go...NO FAIR...this administration sucks...oh the suffering"
"But I voted 3rd party, I shouldn't suffer this" But you get it anyway.

You not only punish the GOP with your tactic...you punish the rest american people by giving them a liberal socialist who WILL tax the shit out of us to finance his trickle up economics theory.
A theory that guarantees that everyone has less money, less hits the economy, the economy drops faster...and well, you should be able to see the outcome. We all suffer just like the left side wants...everybody suffers the same.
We get a nice little attack on capitalism and the free markets while we are at it...because every liberal knows how evil that system is.
Sure, go ahead and increase the capital gains tax on the investments I made to secure my retirement income. I can come to the government and apply for social security, if it still exists, and live comfortably at the poverty level, just below inflation.
Kibbles and bits are pretty good anyway.
Lucky us.

Don't blame ClockwiseSpark though, he voted third party, so it's not his fault.

If that is NOT a push for the liberal socialist cause, I don't know what is.

Keep up the good work.
You have the weekend and a few hours remaining to convince as many people as you can to give their votes to the democrat party.
Better get crackin'....time's a wastin'

Oh...and be certain to post some more drivel and useless pictures to get that post count increased so you can project authority evidenced by your high post count.

The trickle down theory has worked sooo well for us.

What was McCain's schtick when he was up here in the rust belt? Wasn't it a mocking of the american worker telling them they need to get re-educated and look towards service industry jobs and the like so we can succeed in the new global economy?Well thank you Johnny boy, a whole group of people who are hard wired to be creators of products now get to try to survive in an industry they aren't even geared towards working in. Oh Johnny, thank you for looking out for the global economy and the corporations first.

No I am not an Obama supporter, I will being voting third party. However, when you folks want to come here and act like McCain's policies aren't going to be, and haven't been, detrimental to average americans you are full of crap. Corporatism is just as vile as socialism, possibly worse as fewer people have any sense of well being. Ask the people who are sleeping in cars and tent cities tonite how they feel.

There is no buying time with a McCain election. That would be a reward for their abuses through the primaries and failed politics over the last 8 years. If we don't become a very visible presence as third party voters people will believe the lies that there are only 2 choices.

Tell me, did you attempt to be a delegate and see the systemic corruption and stifling of voices many of us on here witnessed? No one knew Huck's name either and yet he got name recognition. We were stomping their butt in donations and he was a frontrunner because tptb chose to put him forward. The system is corrupt. We would be voting over Huck's and Obama if he had not opened his mouth with so many stupid faux pas. That is why they picked Palin as it gives the persona of a group of followers voting for them.

Mainstream voters feed the corrupt machine that controls us. Until we shut the single party system down and open up the choices, we will continue to lose liberty and freedoms until we are what they allow us to be. We are pretty much at that point now...

 

[Anti Federalist]

the trickle down theory has worked sooo well for us.

What was mccain's schtick when he was up here in the rust belt? Wasn't it a mocking of the american worker telling them they need to get re-educated and look towards service industry jobs and the like so we can succeed in the new global economy?well thank you johnny boy, a whole group of people who are hard wired to be creators of products now get to try to survive in an industry they aren't even geared towards working in. Oh johnny, thank you for looking out for the global economy and the corporations first.

No i am not an obama supporter, i will being voting third party. However, when you folks want to come here and act like mccain's policies aren't going to be, and haven't been, detrimental to average americans you are full of crap. Corporatism is just as vile as socialism, possibly worse as fewer people have any sense of well being. Ask the people who are sleeping in cars and tent cities tonite how they feel.

There is no buying time with a mccain election. That would be a reward for their abuses through the primaries and failed politics over the last 8 years. If we don't become a very visible presence as third party voters people will believe the lies that there are only 2 choices.

Tell me, did you attempt to be a delegate and see the systemic corruption and stifling of voices many of us on here witnessed? No one knew huck's name either and yet he got name recognition. We were stomping their butt in donations and he was a frontrunner because tptb chose to put him forward. The system is corrupt. We would be voting over huck's and obama if he had not opened his mouth with so many stupid faux pas. That is why they picked palin as it gives the persona of a group of followers voting for them.

Mainstream voters feed the corrupt machine that controls us. Until we shut the single party system down and open up the choices, we will continue to lose liberty and freedoms until we are what they allow us to be. We are pretty much at that point now...

+1776

 

[Time for Change]

The trickle down theory has worked sooo well for us.

What was McCain's schtick when he was up here in the rust belt? Wasn't it a mocking of the american worker telling them they need to get re-educated and look towards service industry jobs and the like so we can succeed in the new global economy?Well thank you Johnny boy, a whole group of people who are hard wired to be creators of products now get to try to survive in an industry they aren't even geared towards working in. Oh Johnny, thank you for looking out for the global economy and the corporations first.

No I am not an Obama supporter, I will being voting third party. However, when you folks want to come here and act like McCain's policies aren't going to be, and haven't been, detrimental to average americans you are full of crap. Corporatism is just as vile as socialism, possibly worse as fewer people have any sense of well being. Ask the people who are sleeping in cars and tent cities tonite how they feel.

There is no buying time with a McCain election. That would be a reward for their abuses through the primaries and failed politics over the last 8 years. If we don't become a very visible presence as third party voters people will believe the lies that there are only 2 choices.

Tell me, did you attempt to be a delegate and see the systemic corruption and stifling of voices many of us on here witnessed? No one knew Huck's name either and yet he got name recognition. We were stomping their butt in donations and he was a frontrunner because tptb chose to put him forward. The system is corrupt. We would be voting over Huck's and Obama if he had not opened his mouth with so many stupid faux pas. That is why they picked Palin as it gives the persona of a group of followers voting for them.

Mainstream voters feed the corrupt machine that controls us. Until we shut the single party system down and open up the choices, we will continue to lose liberty and freedoms until we are what they allow us to be. We are pretty much at that point now...

Well stated and true.
The problem is that the third party will not make any difference in this cycle.
It cannot.
There is no foothold, no traction and no recognition of the current candidates.

RP is getting some attention now and hopefully he can remain in the eyes of the MSM and general population.
That is our hope.

WE can work to increase awareness of the viability of third party over the next 4 years...if we work hard and work together with a clear game plan.

Historically though, the third party supporters do exactly what is taking place now.
They splinter, infight and argue...losing sight of the goal and make a mockery of the potential for real change any third party may offer.
By the time a new election cycle comes around, they are negated because they are NOT unified and ready to make a stand.

That MUST change to make a difference in the future.

Campaigns MUST start well in advance of the typical MSM hype and present clear objectives and rational solutions to the masses long before the same old candidates spout their drivel.
We need to be in their minds before the MSM can corrupt the minds.

This is, after all, a campaign for the future.

 

[ShowMeLiberty]

I can understand both sides of this debate - lots of frustration on both sides, fear on one side, defiance on the other. By now I think we should all understand that the either/or is a zero sum game. So here's an alternate idea.

Vote Pact
How principled progressives work with conscientious conservatives.

So as a potential McCain voter you make a vote pact with a trusted potential Obama voter and you both vote third party (doesn't matter which). What's the point?

• You both get to "send a message" that you reject the false choice of a two-party system.
  
• You both get to increase the chances of automatic ballot access for the third party of your choice.
  
• You both get to increase the chances of your chosen third party getting into the debates next time.
  
• Both of your votes are counted, but neither of you has "wasted" your vote or "given" it to the "other" side - you effectively cancel out the "wasted" vote effect.
  
• Neither of you has to vote for a candidate you don't really like simply out of fear.
  
• Any stronger than usual showing for one or more third parties will be noticed and possibly gain some media traction.

There are probably lots more benefits I can't think of at the moment. I've been fretting about how to vote for weeks now because I'm not happy with any of my choices. I think a vote pact with my best friend (who usually voted Dem) is going to be the only way I can stop worrying about it.

 

[JK/SEA]

The 'current' Republican Party and its policies and leadership must be destroyed, and voting 3rd party will accelarate this demise, and the reason why is clear. If you have listened to Ron Paul during the debates in the primary's you would know why. The failed policies, the War, the spending, the State Convention tactics, only serves to get this 'current' party an enema it needs. To continue voting 'republican' is self defeating, unless of course you are just happier than hell with this group of thugs, then by all means vote party over country.

1. Destroy the republicans so real republicans of the Goldwater type can rebuild from the ashes.
2. the dems will get their day in the sun, and most likely prove why they need to be destroyed and rebuilt as time goes on.
3. there are thousands out there, myself included who are poised to start rebuilding, but if the republicans win the POTUS, you can be sure we will be guranteed to be completely screwed in the future, and the NWO will have a greased skid to ride in on.

VOTE 3RD PARTY. DESTROY McCain in the vote count. Obama will fail eventually. The drugs will wear off and he and his party will be exposed. But thats not something we need to be to concerned with now. We have to focus on rebuilding the Republican Party to stand a chance in 2012.

A vote for McCain is a vote for an end to all we hold dear. We don't have many more chances left, and we don't have a whole lot of time, but if it makes you 'feel' good to vote ''Johnnie Crash'', because you are a party hack, then all i can say is you were NEVER a RON PAUL Patriot, and your words bely that fact.

 

[IFIXPCS]

Since Ron Paul refused to give his "Blessing" to John McCain, but instead gave it to Chuch Baldwin, that tells me he wants us to give OUR votes to Baldwin also.

Since I have problems with Chuck, I will stick to the original candidate I chose from the beginning and vote for Ron Paul!

I could give 2 shits if McCain, Obama, Nader or Mickey Mouse wins, we started this thing and I at least, intend on finishing it.

Remember, we either all hang together or we hang seperately. I myself, prefer to hang THEM!

Let's Roll for Ron Paul!


IFIXPCS

 

[EndTheFed]

OK - buh bye now. Sleep well while the rest of us work our asses off.

I did not say I was leaving the freedom/liberty movement... I said I will find more like minded people...

 

[moostraks]

Well stated and true.
The problem is that the third party will not make any difference in this cycle.
It cannot.
There is no foothold, no traction and no recognition of the current candidates.

RP is getting some attention now and hopefully he can remain in the eyes of the MSM and general population.
That is our hope.

WE can work to increase awareness of the viability of third party over the next 4 years...if we work hard and work together with a clear game plan.

Historically though, the third party supporters do exactly what is taking place now.
They splinter, infight and argue...losing sight of the goal and make a mockery of the potential for real change any third party may offer.
By the time a new election cycle comes around, they are negated because they are NOT unified and ready to make a stand.

That MUST change to make a difference in the future.

Campaigns MUST start well in advance of the typical MSM hype and present clear objectives and rational solutions to the masses long before the same old candidates spout their drivel.
We need to be in their minds before the MSM can corrupt the minds.

This is, after all, a campaign for the future.

At some point you just have to make the commitment to change your support for the system. I think that Dr.Paul was attempting to get us to see that we need to be comfortable with voting our conscience and not buy into the fear and party politics game and that was why he had the press conference of third party participants. It was to empower us to break free of the closed system and vote our conscience. If we keep feeding the system waiting for a perfect candidate (again) then no one will get in that doesn't play by their rules. Their system is rigged and we will never succeed with the way they stack the deck. So we have to break their system by every effort and every maneuver we can achieve within and without their closed party system.

Most important thing is to be loud and visible. They want to achieve the perception they have beaten us and that we were a small minority of spammers. If we vote within their system because we buy into their fear then we have noone to blame but ourselves because we lost our voice. What would happen if we all voted third party instead of when it seems like msm is suggesting third party would win? Then we go tell others we voted third party and everyone realizes they are breaking free from the confines of the media and yet the media claims something so contrary and the polls show something contrary to what our experience and associates are telling us? We will put the sham right out in the open.

Sort of like those who went deeper into the process this year and attempted to be delegates. You would be hard pressed to find those who went very far who did not get some sense of something not right with the process and that a good bit of strong arming was going on under the surface and sometimes right in front of your eyes.

Do I think we are going to make a difference this cycle? No not on the grand scale, but we can change ballot access. You will never get empowered if you keep waiting for the perfect election cycle. They control the keys to too many critical facets of society, but if you don't start now to make a difference then you will never take that first step. If you don't take that first step you will never begin the journey to achieve true change in the political system. You will constantly waiting for that perfect moment to jump in when you will make the difference according to someone else's standards who clearly has an agenda to keep you demoralized...

I don't see this as just a campaign for the future as that implies there is nothing we can achieve today. Instead of focusing on what one candidate we can put forth and win we need to be concerned with opening the barriers up that keep people from picking a candidate their conscience will allow. Stop buying into the fear of today's candidate as they really are one and the same with a slightly different flavour and there are no guarantees, and focus on the opportunity of real choice for everyone. The guilt trips and fear mongering to paralyze folks into wasting their vote by voting another's conscience is just stealing someone else's right of choice on a leader they have faith in.

 

[tonesforjonesbones]

Glad to see there are a few on here who didn't 'grudge vote". I believe Obammy has already won..thanks to zbig. i have been looking into him quite a bit the last few days. Zbig is my new research project..and the results have been quite telling. he has been in just about every administration since Kennedy..to include Reagan and Bush. he seems to be a left wing Kissinger. His son Ian is actively working in McCain's campaign as foreign policy advisor as we speak. So...I am looking ahead to what we have in store to deal with since the Trilateral boys took over from the neo cons in 2006. here is some of it:

THE BRZEZINSKI-OBAMA PLAN FOR RUSSIA

Groaning under the weight of two lost wars, the terminal crisis of the US dollar, banking panic, and hyperinflation, the US ruling elite is attempting to unify itself around Obama for a breathtaking reversal of their entire strategic and ideological field. The intent is to largely jettison the post-9/11 enemy image of Islamic terrorism and the focus on the Middle East, and to shift target to Russia, China, and their allies in a vast global showdown or planetary end game for which Trilateral asset Obama is supposed to be the figurehead. As outlined by the cold warrior and Russia-hater Brzezinski, the first phase is to eject the Chinese from Africa, cutting off their access to oil and raw materials, and thus sabotaging their current rapid industrial development. All of Africa is rapidly becoming a battlefield of the US against the Chinese, and Obama is the ideal front man for this. Chinese allies like Sudan and Zimbabwe, and also Pakistan and Burma, are all being targeted as part of this plan. With Iran and Syria, the effort will not to attack them, but to turn them against Russia and China. This Brzezinski design is why Obama says he wants to negotiate with Iran, but bomb Pakistan. China is being weakened and destabilized by the Tibetan insurrection and other operations, and Zbig would like to stage a large-scale incident under the cover of the summer Olympics. In the final stage, Zbig thinks he can drive the oil-starved Chinese in on Russia's provinces of eastern Siberia, where there is much oil and few Russians. Obama is thus the bearer of a plan for Sino-Russian World War III that far surpasses the insanity of the neocons. Since Russia and China are both well aware of the Brzezinski plan, this entire lunatic project is sure to blow up in our faces, with cataclysmic results. The Iraq war will seem a tea party by comparison. The main grounds for aggression in the new phase will be humanitarian and human rights claims, not terrorism, so as to maximize left cover. The Bin Laden pretext is now mainly for Afghanistan-Pakistan, where the existing war is being expanded and re-directed to fit the new policy.

***Now the GOP needs us more than ever..we have to get busy working on the local and state levels and get a bunch of Ron Paul Republicans into the congress with Dr. Paul. We have a long row to hoe...and it appears we may be getting involved with nuclear ...the Islamic Terrorist thingy is in the past. onward to Pakistan, Afghanistan and AFRICA. SAfari anyone? Tones (I hope there is something left of us as Zbigniew dispises russia and wants to nuke it out with them) I guess none of our votes mattered in the least...Obama was ordained..Hail to the African King!

 

[Anti Federalist]

tones wrote:

His son Ian is actively working in McCain's campaign as foreign policy advisor as we speak.

And that should tell you all you need to know.

C'mon tones, you really think it makes any difference at this point?

My god, the whole thing's like one giant, inbred, hillbilly camp.

I'm honestly thinking now, that all the rhetoric concerning an Obama presidency is overblown.

What makes me think this is the administration of Deval Patrick in Massachusetts. He is almost a mirror image of Obama in words and background and political "playbooks", a slick, young, "halfrican-American" with almost no qualifications other than empty words and glib speech. The same predictions of utter doom and collapse and disaster of the state was predicted.

Well, guess what? Nothing happened. Within a week, the head of the democratic machine, Tom Finneran, sat him down and told him how things would be. And he played along, followed the system and has been nothing more than chair warmer, for the most part.

Meanwhile, the people who really care about liberty kept right on plugging along, and this year, on the ballot in Mass. are questions 1 and 2: abolition of the income tax and marijuana decriminalization, both of which stand a good chance of passing.

Keep a cool head, don't let fear sucker you into a vote you'll regret and FFS "Hold"!

The Trilats, MIC and CFR are running this show, we both know that. Voting for either one of their anointed clowns won't change a damn thing.