Why is the religion that you practice superior to all other religions?

[PierzStyx]

That last part is fundamental to Christianity. It means that you believe in the Church Jesus Christ founded on Earth. There are very few churches that reject the Nicene Creed, most notably Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses. Catholics, Anglicans, Orthodox, Lutherans, Presbyterians, and many evangelical churches believe in it. The word "catholic" in the creed does not mean the Roman Catholic Church necessarily, catholic means universal.

And no, you cannot be a Christian if you reject the Holy Trinity.

Here is a short list of a few that do not believe in the Trinity: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontrinitarianism#Groups

And no the Trinity is not fundamental to being a Christian. It is a Greek pagan doctrine that was brought into Christianity by the "Church Fathers" who took over the Christian movement after the deaths of the Apostles. http://www.heraldmag.org/olb/Contents/doctrine/The Origin of the Trinity.htm and also: http://www.ucg.org/booklet/god-trinity/greek-philosophys-influence-trinity-doctrine/ The earliest statement of belief in the Trinity as official doctrine of Christianity didn't come into play until 200 YEARS after the Apostle's death. In fact until the Council of Nicea in 325 AD the Christian world was split over the nature of God. And then it was only settle by a vote, by POLITICS. I reject the pagan belief of the Trinity that was forced upon Christianity at the order of a pagan Emperor, Constantine, by a council of men who had no authority from God. Here is a rejection of the Trinity by a Evangelical Pastor, who explains it quite well: http://jesus-messiah.com/apologetics/catholic/trinity.html He even talks about the influence of Middle Eastern mysticism on Christianity leading to the belief in the Trinity.

And actually the "catholic" mentioned in the Creed means specifically the Roman Catholic Church as it was the church organized by that Creed. At the time it was only the "Catholic Church" or just The Church, as no other Christian churches had splintered from it. That you would think otherwise is you trying to re-write history in order to make it fit your beliefs.

 

[eduardo89]

Here is a short list of a few that do not believe in the Trinity: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontrinitarianism#Groups

And those groups amount to less than 1% of self-described Christian churches.

And actually the "catholic" mentioned in the Creed means specifically the Roman Catholic Church as it was the church organized by that Creed. At the time it was only the "Catholic Church" or just The Church, as no other Christian churches had splintered from it. That you would think otherwise is you trying to re-write history in order to make it fit your beliefs.

You obviously don't know what "catholic" means. It means universal and many churches use it to indicate their belief to be the descendant of the Church Christ founded.

The Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Anglicans, Lutherans, Presbyterian, Methodists and many post-Reformation churches believe that their churches are catholic in the sense that they are in continuity with the original universal church founded by the Apostles

 

[UK4Paul]

Hi tttppp

Most people who follow the bible live by a different set of rules because they have different interpretations of the bible.

Oh, I agree. But then, is that automatically a bad thing?

Also, I've met plenty of people who put on this show of how deeply religious they are and know everything about the bible, but they end up being the biggest scumbags you'll ever meet...just like Santorum.

Agreed. But then, this is a uniquely human problem. Humans never seem to quite be able to live up to the ideals set before them. No wonder Gandhi said he liked Christ but not Christians.

I'm pretty sure that even if the Bible were one page in size, scumbags would just find something else to be scumbags about

There have been plenty of wars in the name of religion. I don't think this is positive.

True. I'm not sure whether Christ would have supported those wars.

If we had a clear and concise guideline to live by, people would just live their lives and wouldn't have to worry about studying the bible and figuring it out. Christians, Jews, and Muslims basically follow the same religion, but have been fighting since the beginning of time because of some bs differences in their complex documents. If they all had a simple document that everyone could live by, there wouldn't be this fighting over religion.

I certainly take your point... but you are making the assumption that, if everyone had this simple document, nobody else would come up with a competing document.

I don't think it's as easy as that

Incidentally, it could be argued that your idea was tried. When Moses came down the mountains, he carried two tablets of stone, containing just the 10 Commandments.

He found them making a golden calf to lead them back into Egypt

So I suspect the size of the document isn't the real issue. It's what humans WANT to do... that's the real issue.

The human tendency is always to add more and more laws and layers. I think that's because many humans have a somewhat "childish" need for "rules and regulations".

I actually believe that God's whole point is actually to get us to GROW OUT OF our need for such things!

When Jesus came, he boiled the entire Jewish law covenant to two key points:

Love God, and love your neighbour.

Really, if a person does these two things, there is no need for laws

But it has taken thousands of pages of ink for mankind to figure this out. I think you are right in principle, but I'm simply saying that God has taken us this route so that we can figure out that we don't actually need hundreds of laws... two are enough.

At least, that's my take

 

[UK4Paul]

Hi eduardo89

I'm not denying that we share common roots.

I'm saying that we do not worship the same god. Islam does not accept the Holy Trinity, so how can you say we worship the same god? Islam does not accept that Jesus Christ is God, so we are obviously not worshiping the same god.

I can see where you're coming from... but at the same time, the God of the Jews was YHWH, who was also Jesus' God. That is who he prayed to, and taught his followers to pray to... so the Jews and Christians do have the same God. Jesus didn't teach his followers to pray to himself.

I would also say Muslims have the same God as well. "Allah" basically means God. In fact, "Allah" is used in place of God in Bibles in some Muslim countries, because Allah means God.

Where each differs is in how they view Jesus. Jews don't recognize Jesus as their Messiah and the Son of God (yet ), and Muslims don't recognize Jesus as the Son of God (yet ).

I suppose it boils down to proving that Jesus was the Son of God. What would help is if he would hurry on back so we can get all this sorted out

 

[UK4Paul]

And no, you cannot be a Christian if you reject the Holy Trinity.

And this pretty much clinches tttpp's point.

Wars, persecutions and crusades were engaged in, because one group of Christians differed slightly in how they saw the relationship between the Father and the Son... not to mention the Holy Spirit.

Nothing proves his point more.

Which is more important... to love one's neighbour as oneself, or to slaughter and shun thy neighbour if they happen to believe a slightly different creed?

 

[Muwahid]

Jesus doesn't "get special powers". Jesus is God. He is consubstantial with the Father. He was not made, but begotten. Adam and Ever were made, Jesus wasn't.

Can you quote in the bible where Jesus explicitly states his divinity by stating he is God?

 

[eduardo89]

Can you quote in the bible where Jesus explicitly states his divinity by stating he is God?

Matthew 1:23
Isaiah 9:6
John 1:14
John 8:58
John 14:6-7
1 Timothy 3:16

and many more

 

[eduardo89]

Hi eduardo89



I can see where you're coming from... but at the same time, the God of the Jews was YHWH, who was also Jesus' God. That is who he prayed to, and taught his followers to pray to... so the Jews and Christians do have the same God. Jesus didn't teach his followers to pray to himself.

I would also say Muslims have the same God as well. "Allah" basically means God. In fact, "Allah" is used in place of God in Bibles in some Muslim countries, because Allah means God.

Where each differs is in how they view Jesus. Jews don't recognize Jesus as their Messiah and the Son of God (yet ), and Muslims don't recognize Jesus as the Son of God (yet ).

I suppose it boils down to proving that Jesus was the Son of God. What would help is if he would hurry on back so we can get all this sorted out

The way I see it, as Jesus is God, that if you do not accept Him as God then you are obviously praying to a different God.

 

[tttppp]

Hi tttppp



Oh, I agree. But then, is that automatically a bad thing?



Agreed. But then, this is a uniquely human problem. Humans never seem to quite be able to live up to the ideals set before them. No wonder Gandhi said he liked Christ but not Christians.

I'm pretty sure that even if the Bible were one page in size, scumbags would just find something else to be scumbags about



True. I'm not sure whether Christ would have supported those wars.



I certainly take your point... but you are making the assumption that, if everyone had this simple document, nobody else would come up with a competing document.

I don't think it's as easy as that

Incidentally, it could be argued that your idea was tried. When Moses came down the mountains, he carried two tablets of stone, containing just the 10 Commandments.

He found them making a golden calf to lead them back into Egypt

So I suspect the size of the document isn't the real issue. It's what humans WANT to do... that's the real issue.

The human tendency is always to add more and more laws and layers. I think that's because many humans have a somewhat "childish" need for "rules and regulations".

I actually believe that God's whole point is actually to get us to GROW OUT OF our need for such things!

When Jesus came, he boiled the entire Jewish law covenant to two key points:

Love God, and love your neighbour.

Really, if a person does these two things, there is no need for laws

But it has taken thousands of pages of ink for mankind to figure this out. I think you are right in principle, but I'm simply saying that God has taken us this route so that we can figure out that we don't actually need hundreds of laws... two are enough.

At least, that's my take

You are kind of demonstrating my point when you say that humans have a need to develop more and more laws and rules. The bible is a clear example of this. It is clearly a document written by humans.

The 10 commandments could be an example of a document created by God. Its short, and too the point...you can't really improve it dramatically like you can with the bible. Christians and everyone else would be better off if we just eliminated the bible and focused on the 10 commandments. Just like America would be better off if we scrapped our legal system and just focused on the constitution.

Its hard for scumbags to get around clear and concise rules. Where scumbags thrive is systems where the rules are so complex that nobody can understand them.

 

[Muwahid]

Matthew 1:23
Isaiah 9:6
John 1:14
John 8:58
John 14:6-7
1 Timothy 3:16

and many more

None of those explicitly illustrate Jesus proclaiming that he is God. John 14:7 is probably the strongest case when you don't read it all...

6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know[a] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”

9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.

I can see how some interpret this, but for me it's rather evident.. Philips own reaction must mean he did not ever think Jesus and the father (God) to be one in the same literally. Jesus the man said he speaks not on his own authority, this is the case with all messengers of God... the revelations they speak are from divine inspiration that doesn't make them themselves God, in fact the Qur'an has a similar verse:

وما ينطق عن الهوى إن هو إلا وحي يوحى (He [Muhammad] does not speak of his own desires, it is nothing but pure revelation revealed by God)

I just find it strange there's no single passage where Jesus is quoted as saying "I am God", yet it's a pillar of Christianity as you pointed out.

 

[TER]

Muhawid, I can understand to a degree why someone raised in Islam might read the Gospels and not think that Jesus Christ is God. But that is because you already have a prejudice that those same writings are lies and distortions. Unfortunately, this clouds your judgment and understanding of Who Christ is and how He saves us.

Christ did not have to write anything in a book, for He writes in the hearts of men. Only those whose whole faith depends on the writings of men end up worshipping books. Ironincally, when God did attempt to write down His laws with His own finger, His children were worshipping a golden calf made by human hands in defiance of God and Moses threw the stone tablets to the ground. For we are not worthy or have enough knowledge to read the words of God written either on paper or stone without involving our bias and prejudices and human weakness to stain and tarnish it. Lest we worship the tablets and not the Uncreated Creator of the universe. No, the Wisdom of God is not a book, but a living Man, the Son of Man propheciezed by Daniel. But you cannot understand this verifiable and long believed prophetic truth because you have been taught that these prophecies are lies or distortions. That may be easy to say centuries after the events happened, but the blood of the martyrs and the witness of the saints overrule it. A book indeed is corruptible, which is why a book can never be the Word of God. Rather, the Word of God is a Person, and in that Person, we as persons find salvation. For books are not in the image of God, nor do books find salvation, nor do we by books find salvation, but rather we humans, in the flesh, as children of God, find incorruption by He Who was uncorrupted, Whose flesh was without sin, Whose life was without sin, and Whose death was without sin. There is no salvation for the human being apart from Jesus Christ. And most certainly, He was considered to be even before His advent Immanuel, 'God with us'. This was the cry of the Church from the beginning, well before the Gospels were ever written. For the faith was confirmed by the wonders of the saints and by the blood of the martyrs well before an Apostle decided to record the events for prosperity.

When Christ asked Simon Peter Who he thought Christ was, St. Peter said 'the Son of the living God'. Jesus then revealed how He would build His Church, namely, by the faith that He is the Son of God. And this is the faith which has been defended from the beginning, and the faith wherein we find salvation.

You know how many times the word salvation is in the Quran? The answer is zero. This is because only in Christ do we find it.

Anyone who has been indoctrinated to consider the truths in Scriptures to be lies will never understand the revelation of God in Christ. Thus it is understandable to a degree why one can be blind to these truths which are so apparent to others, because their mind was formed in such a manner to doubt. Indeed, their eyes are shut and the doors of their hearts remain closed. But those saved by God are not done so by words in a book, or by the proclamations of men, nor even the words of angels, but by Jesus Christ, the living Word of God and by the Holy Spirit of God working within His Body, the Church, which He established when He sanctified all of us and all of creation by His sinless offering of love upon the Cross.

 

[WilliamC]

Ya'll still at this?

I'm telling you God is Love is the answer...

 

[Dsylexic]

"Originally Posted by Sri Isopanishad: Invocation
The Personality of Godhead is perfect and complete, and because He is completely perfect, all emanations from Him, such as this phenomenal world, are perfectly equipped as complete wholes. Whatever is produced of the Complete Whole is also complete in itself. Because He is the Complete Whole, even though so many complete units emanate from Him, He remains the complete balance."

This quote doesn't explain anything. Its a bunch of gibberish.

au contraire,it explains very lucidly the idea of infinity.something hindus grasped long before western mathematicians.looks like the idea of infinity is still a mystery to you.cant blame you.must be the public school education

 

[Captain Caveman]

And those groups amount to less than 1% of self-described Christian churches.

You obviously don't know what "catholic" means. It means universal and many churches use it to indicate their belief to be the descendant of the Church Christ founded.

The Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Anglicans, Lutherans, Presbyterian, Methodists and many post-Reformation churches believe that their churches are catholic in the sense that they are in continuity with the original universal church founded by the Apostles

If we recall the quote "many shall seek, and few shall find.." and also "Not everyone who keeps saying to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will get into the kingdom...", then I suspect the chart may not accurately reflect who is truly converted, and who is not. Just a thought.....

Also, on the other end of the spectrum from non-trinitarians are the Oneness folks, who haven't been mentioned. So I mentioned them, that's all.

The most important question for all of us (me included), is to know if we have the Spirit of Christ within us (Romans 8:9). If you do, I bet it was a hugely (and permanently) life changing event, yes?

 

[Yieu]

Ya'll still at this?

I'm telling you God is Love is the answer...

You're right.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qdKZBXMX5E

 

[vodalian]

I know that I won't see it in my lifetime, but I really hope that down the road, my great (x) grandchildren will be able to experience freedom and peace on this planet without the coercion religion fundamentalists use to control the population.

 

[Yieu]

I know this is how it already is, but you can currently follow whatever religion you desire, and do not have to submit to anyone else's will in regards to your personal relationship with God, or lack of relationship.

 

[tttppp]

au contraire,it explains very lucidly the idea of infinity.something hindus grasped long before western mathematicians.looks like the idea of infinity is still a mystery to you.cant blame you.must be the public school education

I understand infinity just fine. You should read all of my posts. I called that quote gibberish because it does a horrible job of explaining its point. Instead of getting right to the point, it makes it as complicated as it could possibly get.

Plus I take your comment that I don't understand infinity to be an insult. Maybe if you had graduated from high school, you would have known that public school doesn't even address infinity.