Why is the LEFT howling about Brexit and racist/xenophia....

[erowe1]

The guidelines had recently changes to become more strict. The goal was to improve the discourse of the site to make it more intellectually functional.

How's that working out for you? Has turning this site into a hive of Trump trolls improved the discourse and made it more intellectually functional?

 

[Brian4Liberty]

And who do you think you are anyway, telling me I can't speak for this forum but you can?

You are the one that constantly pretends to speak for others, including Ron Paul. I stated a self-evident fact that not everyone agrees on everything, while you continue to pretend that you have some authority to speak for others.

 

[erowe1]

You are the one that constantly pretends to speak for others, including Ron Paul. I stated a self-evident fact that not everyone agrees on everything, while you continue to pretend that you have some authority to speak for others.

You're lucky. "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Brian4Liberty again."

You just lied. I don't claim to speak for Ron Paul, ever, much less constantly. I do make statements about what he himself has said he believes (don't you?). And as I said, this site has a mission that is explicitly written out. I have as much right to talk about that as you do. And, as you're proving, you have no hesitation in speaking for this site.

It looks like you're just trying to gloss over the fact that, whereas I am in general agreement with Ron Paul and this site's mission, including when it comes to immigration and trade, you aren't (again, you yourself, just like Ron Paul and the official published mission of this site, have put your views on this out there). Is the reason you love the Trump trolls so much because you agree with them on those issues?

 

[jllundqu]

About one half of Muslims in England want to live under Sharia law - about one quarter of Muslims in England want to force everybody else to live under Sharia law. Over half of Muslims in England want to ban homosexuality. These are incompatible cultures and the EU was forcing England to take more Muslim refugees. It doesn't make any sense why the left has pushed diversity and acceptance of people who are very much opposed to diversity and acceptance of others, unless they are trying to destroy the host culture..

That is a damn fine summation of the situation.

 

[dannno]

Got a source for 1/4 wanting to force everyone else to live under Sharia?

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2016/04/11/poll-of-british-muslims-n2146122

 

[Zippyjuan]

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2016/04/11/poll-of-british-muslims-n2146122

Given that Muslims are about five percent of the UK population (number just went past 3 million), that means just over one percent would favor it. Think that means it has a chance of happening?

 

[GunnyFreedom]

Given that Muslims are about five percent of the UK population, that means just over one percent would favor it. Think that means it has a chance of happening?

Certainly not at those population levels.

 

[LibertyEagle]

You're lucky. "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Brian4Liberty again."

You just lied. I don't claim to speak for Ron Paul, ever, much less constantly. I do make statements about what he himself has said he believes (don't you?). And as I said, this site has a mission that is explicitly written out. I have as much right to talk about that as you do. And, as you're proving, you have no hesitation in speaking for this site.

It looks like you're just trying to gloss over the fact that, whereas I am in general agreement with Ron Paul and this site's mission, including when it comes to immigration and trade, you aren't (again, you yourself, just like Ron Paul and the official published mission of this site, have put your views on this out there). Is the reason you love the Trump trolls so much because you agree with them on those issues?

Bull. You lie about Ron Paul's positions all the time. Case in point. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...after-Brexit&p=6249036&viewfull=1#post6249036

The only mistake made is that you should have been perm banned instead of temp banned.

 

[tod evans]

Britain sees surge in xenophobic attacks amid decision to leave European Union

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/0...ion-to-leave-european-union.html?intcmp=hpbt2

An Eastern European family in Rugby finds dog excrement shoved through its mailbox. A Londoner nearly gets into a fight over drunken slurs shouted on a crowded subway car. A Polish teenager in Gloucestershire is taunted with threats of deportation at her high school.

In the wake of last Thursday's vote to leave the European Union, Britain has seen a surge in xenophobia expressed in taunts, threats and worse. For many, foreign- and native-born, the U.K. has suddenly become much scarier place.

"Before Friday we lived in a tolerant society," said Oana Gorcea, a 32-year-old Romanian who has lived in Britain since she was a teenager. "I've been here 13 years, but I've never felt like I had to hide where I came from. But from Friday, things completely changed."

Gorcea, who works for a multinational company in Rugby, about 85 miles (135 kilometers) northwest of London, said her street was being patrolled by "English commandos who walk around and try to intimidate non-white non-English people." The talk of the neighborhood was the dog feces shoved through a local immigrant family's mailbox.

Gorcea's story and others like it have been echoing across social media for days. Eastern Europeans, Muslims — even Americans and Germans — have reported acts of intimidation and harassment. Victims describe an emboldened angry fringe emerging to crow over Thursday's vote; a T-shirt sported by a man at an Armed Forces Day parade in the working class London borough of Havering over the weekend seemed to sum up the new attitude:

"YES! WE WON! NOW SEND THEM BACK."

British reporters across the country have seen the resurgence of racism up close and personal. Adam Boulton, a presenter for Britain's Sky News, posted a message to Twitter saying he and his family had witnessed three separate incidents of when-are-you-going-home?-style abuse aimed at Europeans over the weekend. Channel Four's Ciaran Jenkins said that within a five-minute span in the northern England town of Barnsley, three people had shouted "Send them home!" BBC reporter Sima Kotecha said that she was in "utter shock" after having returned home to the southern England town of Basingstoke and been abused with a racial slur she hadn't heard "since the 80s."

Police are investigating vandalism at a Polish cultural center in west London and incidents in Cambridgeshire in which cards were given to Polish residents calling them "vermin" and ordering them to leave the country. The National Police Chiefs' Council said there had been a 57 percent rise in hate crime complaints in the past four days compared to the same period last month.

Britain's sizeable Muslim community has also found itself caught up in the anti-immigrant backlash. Miqdaad Versi, assistant secretary-general of the Muslim Council of Britain, said that "hundreds of hate crimes" had been reported across the country.

"The type of language that has been used, like 'go back to your own country,' 'we voted this way, now you have to get out,' that type of language indicates there is some sort of link" to the referendum, he said.

Those who championed the campaign to pull Britain from the EU have condemned the attacks.

"I've never, ever, ever encouraged or condoned behavior like that, and I never, ever would," said United Kingdom Independence Party leader Nigel Farage, before adding that "the real prejudice is the prejudice that's been there for a decade or more against anybody that dares stand up against the establishment, anybody that dares to say that we shouldn't be part of the EU."

Other politicians didn't buy it.

"The leaders of the Brexit campaign have engendered an atmosphere where some people believe it is open season now for racism and xenophobia," said lawmaker Harriet Harman, a former leader of the opposition Labour Party.

For the victims, the link between the referendum and the abuse is clear. Immigration was a key issue in the campaign, with Farage posing in front of a massive, truck-drawn poster carrying a photograph of hundreds of swarthy migrants under the words "Breaking Point." Many "leave" voters cited the influx of foreigners as a top concern.

"Just because of one referendum ... it's coming out like woodworms," said Julie Sauter Daoud, a French-German national who has lived in Britain most of her life. On Sunday she got a firsthand encounter with xenophobia when two men overtook her car shouting, "Go home, you (expletive) German."

She said the attack, which happened while she was driving down a residential street in the northern English city of Sheffield, left her so shaken she was even scared to speak French to her youngest child at the supermarket.

"It's terribly sickening," she said in a telephone interview. "The first time ever in my life. Ever." She paused for a second. "Probably not the last time now."

The 44-year-old's story is one of hundreds filling a Facebook group called "Worrying Signs," which is gathering evidence of the recent surge in intolerance. By late Monday the site was jammed with stories and photographs of sinister graffiti and even broken windows. Polish-British national Natalia Nicholls wrote on the site that her 14-year-old sister was taunted by boys at her high school in the Cotswolds region of England who boasted that "now we can get rid of the Polish and the blacks." Corinne Abrahams, 24, said she was returning from a music festival when she nearly got into a fight with an inebriated man yelling anti-foreigner epithets on the London subway. An American woman said she was recently accosted by people calling her a "Yankee (expletive)" in a parking lot.

The wave of rage has unsettled the country's political class, already in disarray following the Brexit vote. Prime Minister David Cameron, in his first appearance before lawmakers since the vote to reassure Europeans and other ethnic minorities living in Britain that they would be protected.

"Let's remember these people have come here and made a wonderful contribution to our country," he said. "We will not stand for hate crime or these kinds of attacks. They must be stamped out."

 

[silverhandorder]

Given that Muslims are about five percent of the UK population (number just went past 3 million), that means just over one percent would favor it. Think that means it has a chance of happening?

Certainly not at those population levels.

I would think you would want a population that does not have any of these views coming over and limit a population that holds these views.

 

[silverhandorder]

 

Britain sees surge in xenophobic attacks amid decision to leave European Union

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/0...ion-to-leave-european-union.html?intcmp=hpbt2

An Eastern European family in Rugby finds dog excrement shoved through its mailbox. A Londoner nearly gets into a fight over drunken slurs shouted on a crowded subway car. A Polish teenager in Gloucestershire is taunted with threats of deportation at her high school.

In the wake of last Thursday's vote to leave the European Union, Britain has seen a surge in xenophobia expressed in taunts, threats and worse. For many, foreign- and native-born, the U.K. has suddenly become much scarier place.

"Before Friday we lived in a tolerant society," said Oana Gorcea, a 32-year-old Romanian who has lived in Britain since she was a teenager. "I've been here 13 years, but I've never felt like I had to hide where I came from. But from Friday, things completely changed."

Gorcea, who works for a multinational company in Rugby, about 85 miles (135 kilometers) northwest of London, said her street was being patrolled by "English commandos who walk around and try to intimidate non-white non-English people." The talk of the neighborhood was the dog feces shoved through a local immigrant family's mailbox.

Gorcea's story and others like it have been echoing across social media for days. Eastern Europeans, Muslims — even Americans and Germans — have reported acts of intimidation and harassment. Victims describe an emboldened angry fringe emerging to crow over Thursday's vote; a T-shirt sported by a man at an Armed Forces Day parade in the working class London borough of Havering over the weekend seemed to sum up the new attitude:

"YES! WE WON! NOW SEND THEM BACK."

British reporters across the country have seen the resurgence of racism up close and personal. Adam Boulton, a presenter for Britain's Sky News, posted a message to Twitter saying he and his family had witnessed three separate incidents of when-are-you-going-home?-style abuse aimed at Europeans over the weekend. Channel Four's Ciaran Jenkins said that within a five-minute span in the northern England town of Barnsley, three people had shouted "Send them home!" BBC reporter Sima Kotecha said that she was in "utter shock" after having returned home to the southern England town of Basingstoke and been abused with a racial slur she hadn't heard "since the 80s."

Police are investigating vandalism at a Polish cultural center in west London and incidents in Cambridgeshire in which cards were given to Polish residents calling them "vermin" and ordering them to leave the country. The National Police Chiefs' Council said there had been a 57 percent rise in hate crime complaints in the past four days compared to the same period last month.

Britain's sizeable Muslim community has also found itself caught up in the anti-immigrant backlash. Miqdaad Versi, assistant secretary-general of the Muslim Council of Britain, said that "hundreds of hate crimes" had been reported across the country.

"The type of language that has been used, like 'go back to your own country,' 'we voted this way, now you have to get out,' that type of language indicates there is some sort of link" to the referendum, he said.

Those who championed the campaign to pull Britain from the EU have condemned the attacks.

"I've never, ever, ever encouraged or condoned behavior like that, and I never, ever would," said United Kingdom Independence Party leader Nigel Farage, before adding that "the real prejudice is the prejudice that's been there for a decade or more against anybody that dares stand up against the establishment, anybody that dares to say that we shouldn't be part of the EU."

Other politicians didn't buy it.

"The leaders of the Brexit campaign have engendered an atmosphere where some people believe it is open season now for racism and xenophobia," said lawmaker Harriet Harman, a former leader of the opposition Labour Party.

For the victims, the link between the referendum and the abuse is clear. Immigration was a key issue in the campaign, with Farage posing in front of a massive, truck-drawn poster carrying a photograph of hundreds of swarthy migrants under the words "Breaking Point." Many "leave" voters cited the influx of foreigners as a top concern.

"Just because of one referendum ... it's coming out like woodworms," said Julie Sauter Daoud, a French-German national who has lived in Britain most of her life. On Sunday she got a firsthand encounter with xenophobia when two men overtook her car shouting, "Go home, you (expletive) German."

She said the attack, which happened while she was driving down a residential street in the northern English city of Sheffield, left her so shaken she was even scared to speak French to her youngest child at the supermarket.

"It's terribly sickening," she said in a telephone interview. "The first time ever in my life. Ever." She paused for a second. "Probably not the last time now."

The 44-year-old's story is one of hundreds filling a Facebook group called "Worrying Signs," which is gathering evidence of the recent surge in intolerance. By late Monday the site was jammed with stories and photographs of sinister graffiti and even broken windows. Polish-British national Natalia Nicholls wrote on the site that her 14-year-old sister was taunted by boys at her high school in the Cotswolds region of England who boasted that "now we can get rid of the Polish and the blacks." Corinne Abrahams, 24, said she was returning from a music festival when she nearly got into a fight with an inebriated man yelling anti-foreigner epithets on the London subway. An American woman said she was recently accosted by people calling her a "Yankee (expletive)" in a parking lot.

The wave of rage has unsettled the country's political class, already in disarray following the Brexit vote. Prime Minister David Cameron, in his first appearance before lawmakers since the vote to reassure Europeans and other ethnic minorities living in Britain that they would be protected.

"Let's remember these people have come here and made a wonderful contribution to our country," he said. "We will not stand for hate crime or these kinds of attacks. They must be stamped out."

In two weeks we find out it was liberals pretending to be Leave/Brexit people.

 

[LibertyExtremist]

I think it is clear that the goal of the leftists has been to destroy Western culture by any and all means. Importing followers of a religion that hasn't had single meaningful reformation since its existence is a pretty good way to do just that. I can't fault anybody for not wanting to bring people into their neighborhoods who believe it is the will of their God to stone women who may have committed adultery, imprison or kill homosexuals, and commit acts of violence against those who dare question their belief system. Some ideas are not compatible, end of story. It is laughable that leftists are trying to push a narrative that opposing an idea (in this case Islam) is bigotry or racism.

 

[timosman]

I think it is clear that the goal of the leftists has been to destroy Western culture by any and all means. Importing followers of a religion that hasn't had single meaningful reformation since its existence is a pretty good way to do just that. I can't fault anybody for not wanting to bring people into their neighborhoods who believe it is the will of their God to stone women who may have committed adultery, imprison or kill homosexuals, and commit acts of violence against those who dare question their belief system. Some ideas are not compatible, end of story. It is laughable that leftists are trying to push a narrative that opposing an idea (in this case Islam) is bigotry or racism.

Left has been doing this forever under the pretense of taking care of the "less fortunate" while screwing up the middle class. It is time to start asking the government "what have you done for me lately given how much you are doling out to everybody else. And when I say everybody else, I do not mean everybody else in this country, I mean everybody else on this planet"

 

[Zippyjuan]

Just like those darned white European groups who came to the US and threatened to destroy the US. The Italians. The Germans. The Irish. We always blame the new guy for our own problems.

 

[RandallFan]

Just like those darned white European groups who came to the US and threatened to destroy the US. The Italians. The Germans. The Irish. We always blame the new guy for our own problems.

The modern economy doesnt need mass immigration.

The Democrat party says that mass immigration must happen "because, durr, white privilege".

 

[AngryCanadian]

It was old white people who pushed Brexit over the line.

Muslims. Afro-Caribbeans, Eastern Europeans all voted to stay.

The Muslim mayor of London is more concerned about booting "too many white men" off the rail commission than Sharia & giving quotas to Pakistanis, Afro-Caribbeans & Eastern Europeans probably.

Checking white privilege is number 1.

Many minorities in the UK probably want a double dip at frivolous racial lawsuits & quotas. Lawsuit in UK court. If that fails go with EU courts which are probably to the left of Britain.

I guess Brussels is more liberal than Britain relatively.

It was also about rapists, financial criminals & pickpockets from eastern Europe flooding into UK.

The police, like with the Muslims, also covered up a lot of rapes committed by Eastern Europeans according to the populist news sites like the UK Sun & Daily Mail.

Work 2 years then become a Polish Drunk and live at the bar all day on benefits.

More recently once the Muslims & North Africans because EU citizens in Italy, Greece & Germany they can move anywhere they want in 2020-2025. They move to the best welfare places: UK, Germany or Scandinavia.

Muslims. Afro-Caribbeans, Eastern Europeans all voted to stay.

East Europeans are mostly white Europeans.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

Well we could wait until it's 2/3 but by then it's a moot argument.

Better to close the door sooner than later.

Sorry, I couldn't help but notice... is that supposed to be a response to erowe1's post? He's questioning the validity of a statistic and you say, "We need to stop it now before it gets bigger!" Yeah, ok, but what about the actual numbers? Were you aware of what the post meant or are you trying to change the subject?

Or, in your old age, did you accidentally assume that questioning these statistics is somehow affiliated with a certain viewpoint and the connection does not need to be forthright stated in order for you to exploit it? I honestly don't understand how you got from "Source, please" to "we should let it get out of hand", which seems to be the viewpoint you are replying to without it ever being stated in the previous post.

 

[RandallFan]

East Europeans are mostly white Europeans.

They are poorly educated newcomers who obviously like sending remittances back and language pandering.

The Polish government is also suggesting the teenagers spraying go home graffitti should get the death penalty or serve hard time and people be arrested for opposing open borders.

FDR got a bunch of white immigrants to vote for freebies.

 

[susano]

Sorry it took so long for me to get back to this. Real life events interfered.

I would agree this is what is going on, any most specifically, the elites don't care about race issues, they care about control issues and they will destroy what is needed to get what they want. Many races have fallen victim to this and more will in the future if they are not stopped.


That said, I have some specific questions for you that I'd like answered.


1) If the issue is about "undermining the dominant culture", then why is this not your primary message vs. one of race?

Whenever I first commented about this I said "white culturally Christian". I say "culturally" because, as I understand, Europe has become almost a-religious/apathetic about active religious life but would still be culturally Christian. Obviously, Europe is historically Christian, was built built by white people who were Christian (not Muslim, not Africans nor Asians) so there's no question about who that dominant culture is.

2) If the underlying matter is not racism, why try to spin it as racism?

I'm not spinning it as racism. It's more complex than that. It's culture and "race" but race only to the extent of it being tied to the Christian history and culture. There are also many motivations involved in something as long planned as globalization, the EU project and the deliberate mass moving of humans like pawns on a chessboard. Some of those motivations are are financial and political and some are directed at the culture simply because it's "Christian" and poses an obstacle to the plans of TBTB or needs punishing for past sins (depending on the motivations of those making the decisions and they all factor in).

3) Would trying to spin this into a race issue be akin to playing a race victim card?

I wasn't thinking that but now that you mention it there certainly are "victims" and those would be the native European populations targeted by TPTB. We aren't talking fake "victims" here, either, but real lives and communities torn apart by the social engineers.

4) Regardless of a specific application of this tactics used by the elites that has some people being used as pawns that has some possibility of being racist, do you understand the potential barriers you will create against your valid points by trying to spin it as racism?

Sure, I see your point but I can't not speak the truth. That would be political correctness which says we can't speak certain things for fear of being shamed as racist or anti semetic (both names I've been called in this thread) or whatever. Essentially, if it's part of the NWO agenda and certain groups of people are involved (pawns, perps or favored groups), it becomes taboo to speak of it.

5) Do you agree that the elites use race, color, religion, etc. to try and divide the people against each other?

Absolutely. However, just because they do doesn't mean it's a good idea to avoid addressing race, color, religion, etc, when they are relevant. For instance, if we're talking about Islam and Sharia and it's being compatible or not compatible with western values and culture, it would be ridiculous to tip toe around the subject of religion! That's exactly how it is with political correctness, though. Bringing it up invokes cries of racism and xenophobia when it isn't true.

6) Could you agree with the logic that for every case where anyone focuses on the elite created divides that they are doing the bidding of the elite?

If one were to focus on these things as the elites do, then, yes. They play divide and conquer when it suits them and then turn around and play as though real differences don't exist when that suits them. They have pushed multiculturalism since about the 80s and then. for instance, some EU leaders, including Merkel (!) have said multiculturalism isn't working - right before she put the call out to millions of Muslims to come to Europe, promising asylum, which she later reversed herself on. The elite use divide and conquer to weaken the bonds of society, alternately pitting people against each other and then spinning the the we're all one multikulti family living happily together narrative. I'm just saying that's a lie and that there are differences so great that while we can appreciate other cultures, travel to other countries and enjoy vastly different types of people and ways of life, it does not work when mass immigration is forced through social engineering.

7) Could you agree with the logic that the liberty movement has a stronger message by exposing and focusing on the divide and conquer techniques of the elites? Could you agree this is a message that unifies all victims?

Yes and that's my intent in discussing these matters. PC says I can't talk about any of it and I reject that (even when I'm called names).

Thanks.

My pleasure.

 

[susano]

This is the best piece I have ever read on the matter of mass immigration and race. The author is a Jew from the former USSR but has lived all over the world. I think he's a socialist, FWIW. I encourage anyone interested in this topic to read this because he tells it like it is.


Winnie the Pooh on Immigration and Race

By Israel Shamir



A couple of Ukrainians are examining some graffiti: Kick a kike and save Russia!

One Ukrainian says to the other “Great idea! But who wants to save Russia?”

This joke popped into my mind while reading the white nationalist calls: Stop immigration and save the White Race. The means are laudable, but the stated end is irrelevant, at best.

You do not have to belong to the White Race to understand the problems caused by movements of populations. You do not even have to believe in the existence of racial classifications to appreciate that mass migrations cause real problems. The racialist reasoning behind opposition to this phenomenon is superfluous and unproductive at best. Mass immigration is a modern phenomenon, while 140-year old racialism is so dated that it hurts.

Opposition to immigration does not require feelings of racial superiority or even racial identity. Readers of Milne probably remember that Winnie the Pooh, Piglet and Rabbit’s reaction to the newest animal – Kanga – in their forest was anything but welcoming: they kidnapped the immigrant baby. The story of course ended with everyone becoming fast friends, but even Milne could not pull off a happy ending if Kangas were to flood the forest by their thousands.

Humans and other animals have defensive mechanisms used to protect their territory and their access to resources. These mechanisms are now deliberately misrepresented as ‘racism’, or as the unleashing of brutal natural tendencies, but the protection of one’s territory is morally defensible.

In the Soviet Russia of my youth, a young man courting a girl from a different neighbourhood had a better than even chance of being beaten up by the local boys. There was no ethnic, racial, religious or even social difference between the two neighbourhoods; the boys from block A did not think they are inherently better than boys from block B; they were simply defending their access to “their own” girls. This protectionism was not extreme: a serious relationship or marriage across an arbitrary territorial border was possible, but the light flirt and easy sex (and sex was quite easy under the socialist regime) was limited to one’s own neighbourhood. Foreigners, that is boys of different ethnicity and origin, were no exception to the locals-only rule. A long-term settler of any stripe would be eventually accepted as a homeboy, but short-term visitors were always ‘foes’ and were treated accordingly. It is reasonable that today’s youngsters act protectively towards ‘their own’ females, or ‘their own’ jobs. They also have to make a living, and the idealistic groups who hand control over to transients die out quickly.

Mass immigration is neatly sandwiched between invasion and slave trade. If the immigrants prosper, it is invasion; if they are kept down, it is slavery. Either way a small slice of the local population will profit: they will be called “compradors” or “slave traders” as the situation develops. In general, wealthy people enjoy the fruits of immigration while poor ones bear the brunt of it. However, not all wealthy people take advantage of the situation to the same degree. Wealthy people, like the rest of us, have different attitudes toward the society that nurtured them: they might be divided into shepherds and predators. The shepherds fleece their sheep while predators will slaughter every last one if the price is right.

cont.,

http://www.israelshamir.net/English/immigration.htm