Why is 'fun' not compatible with Liberty-lovers?

Sports are the shiznit especially team sports. Watching them is fine and getting mentally involved nothing wrong there either, you can entertain any thoughts in a healthy way.. though the deal here is like casey sig says the media is evil.
 
Your assessment may accurately describe party politics and "horse race" politics, which is how most people view them, but I think you're mistaken when you downplay the "serious business" aspect when it comes to people like us. Interest in politics may play into the savior complex that everyone has to one degree or another, but it does not exist in a vacuum. The issues are real and the stakes are high.

A couple of comments:

1-All politics are party and horse race politics; the moment when you stop trying to “win”, you’re in another field of study, one which is not nearly as fun or interesting.

2-Advocates of all political persuasions consider their issues to be real and the stakes to be high. In a subject as irrational and unempirical as politics, confirmation bias plays a large role in a person’s beliefs. We all think we understand the world, but we also really want the world to work the way we think it does.

I mean, people are being killed every day in and by the military, our very lives are getting harder and harder economically, and our dignity is being trampled by a growing police state, and you're arguing that politics are no more than a hobby, like sports or stamp collecting? Get real. Were politics just some hobby for the Founding Fathers? Were they self-absorbed in their savior complexes to feel good about themselves without any real intention of changing things? I don't think so. ;) For me, the interest in politics doesn't come from within, like my actual hobbies. It's driven by outrage over external factors.

As far as actually being able to alter things in a real sense; using politics to try to influence change is generally a very ineffective way to get things done, at least in the modern age. The world is not governed by ideas; it is run on money. This is why the average person’s economic habits have a much greater effect on the world than their vote/political activism; after all, what good is supporting global warming legislation if you eat meat and drive a gas-guzzler?

The problem with changing economic habits to match one’s political philosophy is that it requires sacrifice; something which is too high of a price for most so-called activists to pay. Getting involved in politics is the best way to make ourselves feel good about trying to change things without actually doing the work.

Maybe I'm cynical, but I see politics as being more about self-indulgence than about sacrifice.
 
I've re-calibrated my priorities/interests several times. First, when I sorta woke up (started reading about 9/11 in 2005). Second, when I really woke up (2007 campaign). And, third when I realized the sky wasn't falling after all (2009) and settled back into partially my "old" self and partially my "awake" self. I think this is where I'll remain forever-being who I was before (hobbies, fun stuff) without over-doing things and always learning about history, economics and philosophy with a little grassroots thrown in to boot.
 
A couple of comments:

1-All politics are party and horse race politics; the moment when you stop trying to “win”, you’re in another field of study, one which is not nearly as fun or interesting.

2-Advocates of all political persuasions consider their issues to be real and the stakes to be high. In a subject as irrational and unempirical as politics, confirmation bias plays a large role in a person’s beliefs. We all think we understand the world, but we also really want the world to work the way we think it does.



As far as actually being able to alter things in a real sense; using politics to try to influence change is generally a very ineffective way to get things done, at least in the modern age. The world is not governed by ideas; it is run on money. This is why the average person’s economic habits have a much greater effect on the world than their vote/political activism; after all, what good is supporting global warming legislation if you eat meat and drive a gas-guzzler?

The problem with changing economic habits to match one’s political philosophy is that it requires sacrifice; something which is too high of a price for most so-called activists to pay. Getting involved in politics is the best way to make ourselves feel good about trying to change things without actually doing the work.

Maybe I'm cynical, but I see politics as being more about self-indulgence than about sacrifice.

To clarify, I was lumping any and every strategy for affecting policy under the banner of politics. It seems like you're specifically referring to election politics, whereas I'm referring to politics in a much broader sense.

You do make a point that election politics are rarely effective, but changing your economic habits is only helpful in some instances. I mean, I refuse to buy music because of the RIAA's practices (and in the meantime, I've really gotten into ocremixes :p), and I refuse to buy Blizzard games because I find their own IP practices disgusting. Instead of complaining about Windows, I run Linux. I avoid any foods with aspartame. Still, changing your buying habits only helps starve a party who's actually trying to sell you something. ;) For instance, what kind of economic sacrifice can we make to end the wars or dismantle the police state, which doesn't involve politics or political education? We can evade taxes at extreme risk and/or become a martyr to the IRS's vengeance, but being made an example of is hardly going to change anything. Only a massive tax revolt will. Agorism works to overcome some regulations, contraband restrictions, etc., but it can't solve everything by itself. In any case, I think your cynicism regarding people's motives has merit, and I think there's an aspect of what you say in everyone, but I think that saying it's the driving force is arguing too strong of a conclusion and painting with too broad of a brush.
 
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Never did have much interest in sports...

Sports promote an odd kind of blind regional hatred that just doesn't sit well with me.
 
My reason to post this topic was just to remind everyone that there's nothing wrong with getting your mind off politics some times.

It's not healthy to not have fun! We aren't going to change the world in a day or a year.
Live your life, people. Don't let this Empire we live under get you down all the time, otherwise they really do win. :)
 
Speaking for myself, I was never a 'rabid' fan of any team. I used to follow my favorite pro football and hockey teams very closely: watching all the games, reading the news every day, but never going to the extent of merging my personality with some kind of team identity. Some sports fans out there seem to think they're actually on the team themselves. :)

I still enjoy football and hockey. Today I'll watch my favorite team. I just don't get as 'excited' about it as I used to. I've always known that "there are more important things in life than sports", but in the last 3 or so years, the contrast has become so stark. I find I just can't get as invested anymore as I might have at one time. Where I once might have allowed my mood to sour over a bad loss to a rival, or in a championship game, I now feel like I keep such things in their proper perspective. It's a bit of a laugh, now; a good time to be had, but certainly nothing to allow even one day to be ruined. I'm now cognizant that there are actual, real-world, life-altering things that can do far worse than ruin a single day going on, and my view of sports and life in general is just much more sober than it used to be.

Sports are a great distraction, a harmless way to tap into your primal, clannish nature, and a lot of fun, but that's really the extent of it for me anymore. There are far more important and consequential things on my mind for it to be any much more than that.
 
Why can't playing politics be fun? (It doesn't have to be "organized" politics!)
 
I guess nothing, objectively speaking. Its just I hear about it all the time, and I can relate to it about as much as I can relate to people who endlessly babble on about Miley Cyrus or whoever. If I'm watching a football game my attention is grabbed only when they make a touch down, but even then I can't identify w/ it, I mean what can it mean to me? If I were one of the players or actually knew one of the players I would care, but say if I went to a college where football was all the rage, the only reason I could find myself watching a big game is because of the omnipresence of the sport in the minds of everyone around me. Its like this meme in society that is perpetuated for reasons completely unrelated to its actual merits. I'm always seeing people who only watch the games or get involved with the fanfare because they have friends or people they like that do so.

I probably sound like a dick but w/e I'm just giving my opinion, that is all it is is an opinion. I probably have hobbies that some people find baffling.

Then your friends are ripe for getting involved in the rEVOLution, no? :p All kidding aside, most of the folks I know aren't involved just because others are. They're involved because there's an aspect of the pomp that they enjoy. For some folks, it IS that regionalism, or taunting, or feeling that they've accomplished something (even though they didn't really do much). Crowd noise only goes so far in affecting the outcome of a game. For other folks, it's a big party, and any excuse to drink and party and eat junk food is a good excuse. For some, it's a social event where they have automatic common ground with everyone around them. For still others, it's the love of the game.

This last one seems too-often ignored by people making these "sports are a distraction" assertions. You might do well to actually watch a football game... really watch it. Why is your attention drawn only by touchdowns? Why isn't a 4th and 2 deep in their own territory, where a team decides to go for it and actually gains ridiculous yardage, as interesting? Why isn't a well-crafted interception catching your eye? There are reasons you run when you do, or pass, or punt, or kick a fieldgoal, or do an onside(s) kick. There are reasons you blitz, or play zone, or why you might double up on a certain receiver. There are reasons to line up under center, or in the shotgun, or to emply a tried-and-true play. There are reasons you pull out a trick play. It's a big chess match.

Do you not ever watch anything? Have you ever watched a few little birds picking on a big one that was trying to raid their nest? Have you watched a chess game, or a race, or politics in a state where you're not living? Have you never seen something which, to you, was interesting not only for the outcome but for the path to get there? If not, then you're probably never going to get it, no.

Never did have much interest in sports...

Sports promote an odd kind of blind regional hatred that just doesn't sit well with me.

I can watch "my team" play, or I can watch two teams I've never heard of play, and be pretty happy so long as the teams are pretty closely matched. I'd actually rather watch the no-name teams because the commentators usually keep their mouths shut, instead of making excuses for "usually stellar" players/offenses/defenses the whole time and bombarding you with stats. Case in point: I couldn't finish the TEN/ORE game last night because the commentators were annoying the hell out of me. "Oregon only allowed so many yards last week, and this week they've allowed x times that!" every few seconds is going to turn anyone off.

* * *

No one's saying whatever one's idea of fun is should be banned, but there's a lot of calling one another stupid for liking sports, or a television show, or whatever else. The OP is right to question it, and those who keep talking about how dumb people who do this, that, or the other are (from their computers, no less ;) ) might consider how they would feel if some of "those people" made their way here. Will "their kind" be accepted once their vote is secured, but they aren't activists? Not everyone who votes or who even participates in the process for the primaries is that into politics. There will come a time when some of the converts are doing it just because someone told them Ron Paul was better than the usual choices. That should very much be good enough for us. Shunning that entire portion of the population, or saying they're "not awake enough" to be real liberty-lovers... it's not going to do us any favors.
 
I think that it is hard for many to have fun, and that many are hostile to fun, as you say, because many have just now taken the red pill. When you've been living in the Matrix your whole life and you now find yourself butt-naked, covered in slimy goo, and sliding down a long tube, it's hard to have fun. When you've been in the Matrix your whole life, but now you sit and listen as people tell you that robots harvest humans for food, all you want to do is throw up-- you want nothing to do with the Matrix. After awhile, though, after you've come to grips with the harsh realities of the world, then you can have fun in the Matrix: whether it's messing around with the woman in the red dress, or busing cool karate moves. However, it's hard to get too enthusiastic about it when you know that it is all meaningless. It is hard to get excited about it when you know that, even though it is just a quick escape for you, it's a system of control to enslave all those sitting next to you. It is hard to sit there and cheer on a fake illusion when what you really want to do is wake up those around you.

Maybe that is why some in the liberty movement can't have 'fun.'

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P.S. hiking, biking, canoeing, skiing, snowboarding, surfing, camping, and all extreme sports > men in tight clothes chasing around a stupid ball.
 
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P.S. hiking, biking, canoeing, skiing, snowboarding, surfing, camping, and all extreme sports > men in tight clothes chasing around a stupid ball.

Yeah, but you can make ANYTHING sound stupid by describing it that way. Why would you wanna stand on a stupid little board and slide down a hill justa get to the bottom? Why would ya walk up a big mountain and back down justa go back home? Why would ya carry a stupid little boat up a river bank justa float back down to where you started?

Why do you wanna listen to Ron Paul give a campaign/liberty speech when you already know his positions on everything & so you can support him exactly the same as you did already??

This is wordplay. It doesn't reflect the real qualitative elements of human activity.
 
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To the OP...

I think sports are actually one of the last refuges of the free mind. Ultimately, a game cannot be decided by any public opinion, charades or illusions. Objective reality is the only barometer that the scoreboard will adhere to, save the occasional officiating gaffe. The mob can howl, scream, yell, threaten the scoreboard but those numbers have a funny way of staying the same.

In politics, by contrast, reality takes a back seat and the irrational is typically held up as indisputably correct.
 
To the OP...

I think sports are actually one of the last refuges of the free mind. Ultimately, a game cannot be decided by any public opinion, charades or illusions. Objective reality is the only barometer that the scoreboard will adhere to, save the occasional officiating gaffe. The mob can howl, scream, yell, threaten the scoreboard but those numbers have a funny way of staying the same.

In politics, by contrast, reality takes a back seat and the irrational is typically held up as indisputably correct.

I believe that games have and will be thrown when the money interests get involved. Sports, like politics, are influenced by big money.

That said I have nothing against sports. To each their own. If you don't take SOME kind of break from politics you'll burn out.
 
Finally, about blind regionalism...

Though I like Melissa's remarks about football, I agree that there are a lot of blind irrational emotions & loyalty attached to sport. I live in St. Louis. The Rams really have nothing to do with this city except having held our politicians hostage & ripped off our public funds. The players aren't from here. The owners aren't from here. They can't wait to leave. But today, at 3:15 PM, a bunch of grown men are going to be screaming encouragement like it's their best buddies out there on the field.

Sports are a microcosm of life & the worst part of it as usual are the cowards, fence-straddlers and mealy mouths. Remember RP's talk about "sunshine patriots?" Most football fans/journalists are sunshine supporters of the worst kind. After the Cardinals moved from STL to Arizona, they were mocked & ridiculed as cheap, worthless losers, mercilessly for almost 20 years, though their owner has donated more money to charities here than most of the crowing voices would earn in a lifetime. But when the Cardinals qualified for the Super Bowl in 2008, a prominent columnist here wrote an article about how St. Louis "has adopted" the Cardinals and were right with them cheering all the way. You just want to gag because it's so cowardly -- you wonder how somebody can wake up in the morning & look themselves in the mirror, you know? I wrote him a letter comparing it to Zod, Lex Luthor & Superman at the end of Superman 2. "I was with ya all the TIME! Did you see how they fell into our trap!"
 
A girl broke up with me because I criticized sports people for paying attention to sports while their liberties are being ruined.

damn.
 
9.5...seriously?

I would criticize her for needlessly breaking off relationships while HER liberties are being ruined.
 
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