Why I’m Tired of Defending Rand Paul. BY JONATHAN BYDLAK

But his pragmatism has evolved over the years into boilerplate Republican talking points. Today he is a candidate who has very few unique positions on anything.
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Cutting $500 billion in spending, eliminating multiple departments, eliminating the payroll tax, economic freedom zones, audit the Fed, NSA and PATRIOT Act reform, civil forfeiture, drug sentencing, medical marijuana, criticizing the Iraq War, the Libyan War, and the arming of the Syrian "rebels," cutting foreign aid

His recent polling and fundraising numbers show the results of this trajectory.
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Money: Rand has raised more money than Ron did over the same time period last cycle. The official campaign raised about 150% what Ron did (the PACs did even better).

Polls: If you take the average of the last 10 polls, Rand has 5.9% (with 15 candidates). Last cycle, the comparable number for Ron would be 8.1% (with only 9 candidates).

Matt Collins said:
What an arrogant backstabbing attention whoring jackass.
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Yup
 
jkob said:
I think Ron's views would of done fine in 2016, we've seen two ridiculous fringe candidates on a rocket this whole summer in Donald Trump & Bernie Sanders. People want something else, Rand should be trying to stand out from the field not blend into it. If the country isn't ready then they need to be educated further. I don't believe capitulating on our principles to try to get elected.
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Ron would be sunk like a battleship hit with a thousand Kamikaze planes in the year 2040 if conditions of the present are any indicator. Don't believe me? I'm not a betting man, but if I were, I'd lay down heavy odds that Trump crashes and burns like a stone in the ocean either right before or soon after Iowa, and I'd be surprised if Sanders wins a single state other than maybe Vermont, just like his intellectual fore-bearer Howard Dean.

If every election that I've witnessed for the past 20 years have been any indication, this country does not go for the kind of change that you're hoping to see. It's actually pretty frustrating to see how easily people get led around by the MSM. If Rand's campaign does fail, the first people I'm going to blame are not going to be the MSM, it's going to be dumb enough to be led around by them who are allegedly on this team, and I stress allegedly.
 
Brian4Liberty said:
The odds of winning are usually pretty small, even for people loved by the media and establishment, such as Huntsman and Fiorina. That is nothing new. We know this going into a campaign.

So what is the point of this continued negativity? Are we all supposed to "wake up" to the fact that not everyone wins?

The NFL pre-season will start before we know it. Perhaps all the teams should just give up now, and leave the season to serious contenders like the Patriots, Broncos, Seahawks and Packers.

This guy is not popular on any team, especially when giving up before the first game (or vote):

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It is just coming to terms with a lot of disappointment, Rand was pretty much the one hope we had so its hurts a lot to say this stuff. I wish people wouldn't use 'educational campaign' as a pejorative, it is only because of Ron's principled views that I am even here. I think Ron's campaigns were invaluable and made a huge impact, I don't see what the benefit with Rand's unless he somehow wins it all. I see the libertarian and Paul brand being associated with the worst of the Republican establishment, it really does sully the reputation. When I debated with non-Republicans, they usually respected Ron on some level but Rand is just seen as a total joke now to a lot of them. We're letting the youth America flock to a literal communist, it's disturbing.
 
brandon said:
It wasn't a total obituary... the article ended with a reasonable suggestion. "Go into the debates, grow a set of balls, and do something like your father did to Rudy." Personally I think it's probably too late, but whatever.

I mean look around... Rand is inspiring zero support. Where are all the sign waves? The paul bots? The internet spammers? Where is the youth? The college kids passing out slim jims? There is none because Rand doesn't represent anything.

None of us signed up for this. Most of us signed up to throw politicians like Rand Paul out of office. And now most of us are gone. Those who remain seemed to adopt the mentality that winning is literally the most important thing and absolutely nothing matters besides winning. A lot of us agreed winning is important, but taken to such an extreme it's just pointless.
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You didn't sign up for RPF until two months from now, 2007 time. And that's as an EARLY adopter. I wouldn't expect that kind of enthusiasm yet for Rand.
 
Brian4Liberty said:
For a day? That would be an option.
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I didn't hear him say "for a day". He started the answer to the question by condemning James Clapper for lying to Congress. Then he went on to discuss Snowden and said that both Clapper and Snowden should be locked into a jail cell together.

I understand his nuance, but it's just another example of how Rand parses words when he's confronted with a situation which may have a political price.

Ron essentially created the Liberty Movement by refusing to equivocate his responses to questions. He didn't lose the nomination because of that. He lost the nomination because the machine lined up against him. Yet the momentum Ron created was still viable and it would have continued to grow if someone had continued to carry the message in the manner that he did.

Rand and his people thought they had a better idea.

They don't.
 
hells_unicorn said:
Ron would be sunk like a battleship hit with a thousand Kamikaze planes in the year 2040 if conditions of the present are any indicator. Don't believe me? I'm not a betting man, but if I were, I'd lay down heavy odds that Trump crashes and burns like a stone in the ocean either right before or soon after Iowa, and I'd be surprised if Sanders wins a single state other than maybe Vermont, just like his intellectual fore-bearer Howard Dean.

If every election that I've witnessed for the past 20 years have been any indication, this country does not go for the kind of change that you're hoping to see. It's actually pretty frustrating to see how easily people get led around by the MSM. If Rand's campaign does fail, the first people I'm going to blame are not going to be the MSM, it's going to be dumb enough to be led around by them who are allegedly on this team, and I stress allegedly.
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Don't blame us, Rand isn't appealing to anybody right now and that's my problem. You're not going to win trying to appeal to everybody, Rand had a base and he should of stuck his guns. Trump and Sanders are evidence, people don't want some inauthentic Washington insider but someone who is strong and willing to stand up for what they believe even if its unpopular. People appreciate honesty and want real change, not pragmatic subtle don't-offend-anyone change but real change. It isn't the hardcore Ron Paul faction that is the problem, you guys say we're such losers anyway so what difference does it make? Why doesn't Rand have more support from the establishment for all his pandering? Shouldn't you be more mad at them?
 
I predicted this.

I don't remember if I said it here....I may have purposely avoided saying it here because I was getting hammered by Rand supporters for calling him out on some of the things he was saying a couple of years ago that was giving me a headache. But what I was thinking is, Rand is going to get squeezed if he keeps trying to play both sides.

For every libertarian thing he said or did, there seemed to be a cringe-worthy establishment-cozying moment waiting in the wings


  • He filibustered the use of drones -- great!
  • Then he said he wouldn't mind if a drone killed someone coming out of a liquor store with a weapon and $50 cash.
  • He's tried to end foreign aid to many countries -- wonderful!
  • Then he said he doesn't advocate running around with no clothes on, smoking pot...he's not a libertarian.
  • He filibustered and got the PATRIOT Act stalled -- super!
  • But he says Edward Snowden should share a prison cell with the director of the National Intelligence Agency

He's confusing everyone...and I knew it would happen. And that's what some of us are trying to say in this thread. But staunch Rand supporters don't want to hear it. They'd rather keep their heads in the sand and pretend the sun is shining while the flood waters continue to rise.
 
I agree with the overall sentiment on this thread that Rand needs to be bold to stand out but you also have to realize in 2007 and 2011 debate season started in April. The late start of debates and the RNC limited number of sanctioned debates was instituted specifically to subdue the momentum of a renegade liberty candidate. Rand has indeed made so missteps but this thing really hasn't even gotten started yet.
 
cajuncocoa said:
  • He filibustered the use of drones -- great!
  • Then he said he wouldn't mind if a drone killed someone coming out of a liquor store with a weapon and $50 cash.
  • He's tried to end foreign aid to many countries -- wonderful!
  • Then he said he doesn't advocate running around with no clothes on, smoking pot...he's not a libertarian.
  • He filibustered and got the PATRIOT Act stalled -- super!
  • But he says Edward Snowden should share a prison cell with the director of the National Intelligence Agency

He's confusing everyone...and I knew it would happen. And that's what some of us are trying to say in this thread. But staunch Rand supporters don't want to hear it. They'd rather keep their heads in the sand and pretend the sun is shining while the flood waters continue to rise.
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This. It isn't about his stances. It's about his confusing stances that don't rationally compute. People need to realize some of us were trained on the Ron Paul campaign of nothing but the truth & morality train. Our purity tests are just tougher. Not sorry.
 
Chieppa1 said:
This. It isn't about his stances. It's about his confusing stances that don't rationally compute. People need to realize some of us were trained on the Ron Paul campaign of nothing but the truth & morality train. Our purity tests are just tougher. Not sorry.
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The drone criticism is beyond brain dead. It is clear what he meant. That is such a petty nothing criticism.

The running around naked was a bad joke. So what? That is petty. That is nothing.

As for Snowden, he should go to jail. He broke the law and ran. You can't arbitrarily not enforce the law on something that huge. Snowden did a good thing and he is a bright guy. I don't want him encouraging people like Bradley Manning, who is not a bright guy. I certainly don't think Snowden should be executed like I think Jonathan Pollard and Bradley Manning should have been. But he should get some punishment, albeit a very lenient one.
 
jkob said:
Don't blame us, Rand isn't appealing to anybody right now and that's my problem. You're not going to win trying to appeal to everybody, Rand had a base and he should of stuck his guns. Trump and Sanders are evidence, people don't want some inauthentic Washington insider but someone who is strong and willing to stand up for what they believe even if its unpopular. People appreciate honesty and want real change, not pragmatic subtle don't-offend-anyone change but real change. It isn't the hardcore Ron Paul faction that is the problem, you guys say we're such losers anyway so what difference does it make? Why doesn't Rand have more support from the establishment for all his pandering? Shouldn't you be more mad at them?
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Sorry to burst your bubble, but you guys are losers, and you're going to learn it the hard way it seems. Wading through this garbled mess of sound bits and lazy rhetorical questions that you call a post is actually not terribly different from the sort of nonsense I heard out of Bachmann, Cain and Perry supporters back in 2011-12. Do you have an independent thought in your head or are you only capable of parroting what you've heard out of the latest meme on Facebook?

As for the establishment, I can't really be mad at them since it would amount to being mad at a tiger for having stripes. You, on the other hand, should know better than to be roped in by a petty tyrant like Sanders and the world's richest fertilizer salesman (Trump). This is precisely what fanaticism does to people, it robs them of their reason. The establishment is disciplined, you are not, and it is for that reason that we may well lose, and when it happens, I don't see a point in blaming the enemy that simply cut our throats after we hand them the knife and stretch our necks out.

If I say this again I may have to make it my signature, but I do indeed long for more reasonable company.
 
Smitty said:
(?)
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The law and punishments have to be as objective as possible like Hayek says. Snowden did not go through the proper channels and he ran. You can't let individual people be the arbiter on the law and what is Constitutional. I don't think almost any government regulation is Constitutional. But if someone doesn't comply with OSHA or minimum wage laws, they are still going to get punished no matter what I think.
 
Krugminator2 said:
The law and punishments have to be as objective as possible like Hayek says. Snowden did not go through the proper channels and he ran. You can't let individual people be the arbiter on the law and what is Constitutional. I don't think almost any government regulation is Constitutional. But if someone doesn't comply with OSHA or minimum wage laws, they are still going to get punished no matter what I think.
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This is what the Liberty Movement has come to?
 
hells_unicorn said:
Sorry to burst your bubble, but you guys are losers, and you're going to learn it the hard way it seems. Wading through this garbled mess of sound bits and lazy rhetorical questions that you call a post is actually not terribly different from the sort of nonsense I heard out of Bachmann, Cain and Perry supporters back in 2011-12. Do you have an independent thought in your head or are you only capable of parroting what you've heard out of the latest meme on Facebook?

As for the establishment, I can't really be mad at them since it would amount to being mad at a tiger for having stripes. You, on the other hand, should know better than to be roped in by a petty tyrant like Sanders and the world's richest fertilizer salesman (Trump). This is precisely what fanaticism does to people, it robs them of their reason. The establishment is disciplined, you are not, and it is for that reason that we may well lose, and when it happens, I don't see a point in blaming the enemy that simply cut our throats after we hand them the knife and stretch our necks out.

If I say this again I may have to make it my signature, but I do indeed long for more reasonable company.
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Whether our advice is heeded is, fortunately, not up to you. When it's all said and done, we'll find out if we were "losers" or not. All I know is, somebody sounds a tad defensive.
 
cajuncocoa said:
Whether our advice is heeded is, fortunately, not up to you. When it's all said and done, we'll find out if we were "losers" or not. All I know is, somebody sounds a tad defensive.
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It was never up to me nor would I make such a claim, I'm simply making an observation of the obvious, you will be your own downfall, as indicated, though you'll drag the movement down with you it seems. The fact that I'm a bit frustrated at the obstinate foolishness of certain parties shouldn't be misconstrued as being defensive, and only a person looking for a scuffle would presume to employ such language.

You won't solve the problem until you understand it, and the conduct I am seeing here indicates pretty clearly that you don't. America's problem is systemic, not hierarchical, and absent playing to that, failure is the only eventuality.

cajuncocoa said:
No. Some of these people were never part of any true Liberty Movement.
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Aye, there's hardly a true Scotsman left, it seems.
 
jkob said:
Don't blame us, Rand isn't appealing to anybody right now and that's my problem.
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Since when? What is your time-frame?

"Grassroots" supporters on this forum were calling for Rand to take action on this Planned Parenthood expose. Rand has been focusing on that for the past two weeks. Ron was pro-life. Rand is walking the walk right now. Pro-life and cutting spending at the same time. Perhaps it is the lack of media coverage, but Rand already addressed that too with Wolf "I'm so clever" Blitzer.
 
Krugminator2 said:
As for Snowden, he should go to jail. He broke the law and ran. You can't arbitrarily not enforce the law on something that huge. Snowden did a good thing and he is a bright guy... But he should get some punishment, albeit a very lenient one.
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Krugminator2 said:
The law and punishments have to be as objective as possible like Hayek says. Snowden did not go through the proper channels and he ran. You can't let individual people be the arbiter on the law and what is Constitutional. I don't think almost any government regulation is Constitutional. But if someone doesn't comply with OSHA or minimum wage laws, they are still going to get punished no matter what I think.
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This is important for those who want to follow the rule of law and due process.

And after that is all done, if found guilty and given a long sentence, the President can issue a pardon and let him go for exposing lies, corruption and anti-Constitutional activities. ;)
 
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