Why I won't vote for Rand Paul or anyone else for president in 2016

Sayzak

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I'm a long time member (summer '07), but I couldn't remember the password to my other account so I'm using my alt.

I have been a very faithful and aggressive support for Ron Paul over the past 5 and a half years, donating a lot of money, and spending a lot of my time trying to find the best way to communicate his message to a variety of people. I was successful in converting a handful of my closest friends who went on to spread the message (or parts of it they agreed with) on their own in their own way. Over the years I felt the energy increase and the power of the tide grow.
I have made videos designed to appeal to different types of thinkers, as well as many others designed to motivate the already-in. Here are a few of the videos I am most proud of or have found to be the most effective:







But I digress. I have noticed a shift in attention from Ron Paul and the Ron Paul Revolution to getting Rand Paul elected in 2016 -- despite the fact that he supports Romney. Trusting Rand Paul after his endorsement of Romney is a huge leap of faith that is akin to hoping the least of two evils is somehow good, and I won't do it. Even supporting Ron Paul himself had me gut-checking for 5 years as to whether or not I really wanted to support the system by supporting a man who works in it.

Granted, we made a bit of headway. We were perpetually more and more influential and it is clear that the GOP needs us to win. They still deny this in their rhetoric through the media, but we know the truth. Enough former GOP faithfuls have defected to the Paul camp to render their party dead.

But here's Rand Paul, primed to wear the prince's crown and get his foot in the door in 2016. He talks a lot like his father, only he's a smoother politician. It's very tempting to project our desire for the right kind of change onto him, even after he endorsed Romney. I know how tempting it is, I feel it too. But supporting Rand now after he endorsed Romney (while his father was still in the race, come on!) is not a choice. I'm not going to waste my energy while still not making a choice.

I'm going to put my energy into the message, and the message alone. I will not use a politicians name. I will not use a party's name, or a platform. It will have nothing to do with voting. It will have nothing to do with politics.

From now on I am going to channel my desire for Liberty into a concise message that will fit directly into the hearts and minds of all people of all ages regardless of political affiliation, and I'm going to stick with that message for the rest of my life.

As Ron Paul recently stated: "We're too far gone."

This thing we call a system is broken in places we can't reach. Eventually it's going to come crumbling down. In my opinion, the best thing we can do for the future of not only this country, but the world at large is to be ready to pick up the pieces.

If we support Rand Paul or any politician in 2016 we're still worshiping government, thinking that we'll convince it to somehow fix its self. Deep down we know it won't, that it can't. It's a game of faith, and the longer we play it the less influence we'll have over the future.

If it's not about the future... what is it about?
 
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Not this again. He also criticized Romney for several things, including declaring war without congressional approval, after that endorsement.

He explained his reasoning here:



Rand should be judged for his fights for liberty, not a token endorsement so he could live to fight another day and gain influence, rather than give them ammo to outcast him like his father as a "fake republican". You don't give these monsters ammo to use against you. Polticis 101 is all politics is perception, and they will sure as shit use that perception against you if you let them.

The next 4 years will define if Rand is worthy of a presedential bid, but right now he's the best Senator we have and fighting our fights. Until that changes and he starts taking lobbiest money or voting like a puppet, he's earned the benefit of the doubt to see how his strategy shakes out.
 
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Yeah.. Even though Rand endorsed Romney, he was rather harsh on ROmney during the general elections. Saying how Romney basically sucks.
 
He explains his position well enough, and it's a rather typical angle for someone with that perspective--going along to get along. On the other hand, there's RP's point of view, and the fact that he refused to endorse Romney, despite Rand's argument here. Granted, RP is retiring, but still... He's always spoken out about not endorsing candidates who disregarded or opposed his principles on key issues. Unless I'm mistaken, he never endorsed McCain either, and he wasn't retiring after that election. The problem, in my view, is that he's willing to sacrifice his own principles for the sake of gaining in-roads. So then the question becomes, how much is he willing to sacrifice down the road? What principles are expendable and what principles are not? I get his argument, I just don't agree with it. I'd say it's necessary to compromise on certain things in that political realm, but on some things there should not be any compromise--if you're principled and have true convictions about those principles, then compromise wouldn't really be an option.
 
He explains his position well enough, and it's a rather typical angle for someone with that perspective--going along to get along. On the other hand, there's RP's point of view, and the fact that he refused to endorse Romney, despite Rand's argument here. Granted, RP is retiring, but still... He's always spoken out about not endorsing candidates who disregarded or opposed his principles on key issues. Unless I'm mistaken, he never endorsed McCain either, and he wasn't retiring after that election. The problem, in my view, is that he's willing to sacrifice his own principles for the sake of gaining in-roads. So then the question becomes, how much is he willing to sacrifice down the road? What principles are expendable and what principles are not? I get his argument, I just don't agree with it. I'd say it's necessary to compromise on certain things in that political realm, but on some things there should not be any compromise--if you're principled and have true convictions about those principles, then compromise wouldn't really be an option.

Good to see you again cajuncocoa.
 
Which is why he had two failed campaigns for President. The point is to actually win elections in the future.

He's actually lost 3 campaigns. I don't think any of them were failed campaigns, however. True he didn't become president, but he accomplished many other things in the process. I dare say if he was the compromising sort, he'd not have accomplished those things.
 
Not endorsing the nominee would be political suicide for Rand if he wants to get anywhere in the G.O.P

Get over it. I have .

This, some of you need to learn what 'strategy' means. Rand Paul has a difficult line to walk, let's not make it more difficult by reading too deeply into everything he says or does, and criticizing his every move that may be designed to reach out and bring in more supporters. You just have to place your trust in the man, I've seen enough to do that but to each his own.
 
Just because someone has a difference of opinion with Rand's strategy doesn't mean they lack the capacity to comprehend it.
 
When is Rand going to come out of his supposed Trojan horse and start acting like his father? Ive been waiting for that moment since he was elected. Now I'm beginning to wonder if it's going to happen.
 
When is Rand going to come out of his supposed Trojan horse and start acting like his father? Ive been waiting for that moment since he was elected. Now I'm beginning to wonder if it's going to happen.

Haven't you seen some of his speeches on the senate floor?
 
This, some of you need to learn what 'strategy' means. Rand Paul has a difficult line to walk, let's not make it more difficult by reading too deeply into everything he says or does, and criticizing his every move that may be designed to reach out and bring in more supporters. You just have to place your trust in the man, I've seen enough to do that but to each his own.

Actually having SayZak and other anti-Rand Paul folks around IS a good thing as long as they don't influence too heavily. There needs to be some vocal Anti-Rand folks in the liberty movement to help keep Rand from becoming pigeon holed like Ron. The more the neo-con's hear the dissent(from the liberty movement), the more comfortable it will make them feel with Rand.
 
Just because someone has a difference of opinion with Rand's strategy doesn't mean they lack the capacity to comprehend it.

No but refusing to vote for him because you disagree with his strategy is ridiculous imo. Don't you think Rand Paul confers with his father? Of course he does, but there are different goals for each of them.

Idk if it's just me but a level of purism in devotion to Ron Paul to the extend that one won't vote even for his son, who appears to be nearly identical ideologically, is just too much imho.
 
Actually having SayZak and other anti-Rand Paul folks around IS a good thing as long as they don't influence too heavily. There needs to be some vocal Anti-Rand folks in the liberty movement to help keep Rand from becoming pigeon holed like Ron. The more the neo-con's hear the dissent(from the liberty movement), the more comfortable it will make them feel with Rand.

That's a good point and you could well be right, however I'm still going to disagree with people who express that opinion.
 
When is Rand going to come out of his supposed Trojan horse and start acting like his father? Ive been waiting for that moment since he was elected. Now I'm beginning to wonder if it's going to happen.

Pay attemtion to his votes and legislation such as end the fed, industrial hemp, tsa, etc.
 
No but refusing to vote for him because you disagree with his strategy is ridiculous imo. Don't you think Rand Paul confers with his father? Of course he does, but there are different goals for each of them.

Idk if it's just me but a level of purism in devotion to Ron Paul to the extend that one won't vote even for his son, who appears to be nearly identical ideologically, is just too much imho.

From what I gather from the OP, he won't be voting at all--it's not just about Rand.
 
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