Why I am not a fan of the Tea Party as much as I was....

[BamaFanNKy]

http://freemaninky.blogspot.com/2010/09/my-problem-with-tea-party-not-real.html

 

[LibertyMage]

If you really feel that way, then you need to start looking at the Tea Party in a different light. Pissed off people - regardless of their beliefs - create a leadership vacuum and are a vessel for change. This has been true throughout history. Those who have worked with the Tea Parties have been pushed to the front of the line. Those who have abstained due to some personal quandary have made themselves irrelevant.

The Tea Parties are probably the most fertile ground for our ideas that we will see in our lifetime. You need to stop thinking personally and start thinking politically. Get over your personal issues with the Tea Party and start finding some way to work with them.

 

[newyearsrevolution08]

I agree that the tea party candidates are as broad as the dem and repubs currently are. I hope that people actually look at the stances on the issues versus a party affiliation as well as their previous voting records to make their decision.

 

[BamaFanNKy]

If you really feel that way, then you need to start looking at the Tea Party in a different light. Pissed off people - regardless of their beliefs - create a leadership vacuum and are a vessel for change. This has been true throughout history. Those who have worked with the Tea Parties have been pushed to the front of the line. Those who have abstained due to some personal quandary have made themselves irrelevant.

The Tea Parties are probably the most fertile ground for our ideas that we will see in our lifetime. You need to stop thinking personally and start thinking politically. Get over your personal issues with the Tea Party and start finding some way to work with them.

I guess you missed the whole Gary Johnson speech where "Our Ideas" were booed. The fact most of these people are just mad because we have growing government under democrats and not a Republican president is their problem.

 

[sailingaway]

I guess you missed the whole Gary Johnson speech where "Our Ideas" were booed. The fact most of these people are just mad because we have growing government under democrats and not a Republican president is their problem.

They are what the people in the crowd are, which can vary drastically. In some areas they are (or were) primarily our people. In others, less so, just as the conservative vote in some regions is more libertarian leaning and in others is more social conservative leaning. Coalitions are what win and I would rather have coalitions with the social conservatives than with the neocons who manipulate and are dishonest about what they are doing.

Having said that, I see us as one ELEMENT of the tea parties, sort of unto ourselves. In some regions you see comments about 'Campaign for Liberty and the local tea parties' as if they are separate rather than overlapping, because that is how positions are brought to the table.

In any event, the tea parties are still flexible at the local level, so persuasion is more likely there than elsewhere.

 

[Tenbatsu]

The tea party has been created by the establishment to co-opt the liberty movement.

That is its only purpose.

 

[BamaFanNKy]

They are what the people in the crowd are, which can vary drastically. In some areas they are (or were) primarily our people. In others, less so, just as the conservative vote in some regions is more libertarian leaning and in others is more social conservative leaning. Coalitions are what win and I would rather have coalitions with the social conservatives than with the neocons who manipulate and are dishonest about what they are doing.

Having said that, I see us as one ELEMENT of the tea parties, sort of unto ourselves. In some regions you see comments about 'Campaign for Liberty and the local tea parties' as if they are separate rather than overlapping, because that is how positions are brought to the table.

In any event, the tea parties are still flexible at the local level, so persuasion is more likely there than elsewhere.

I'd love to agree with you but, the Moral Majority is part of the Neo-Con movement.

 

[sailingaway]

I'd love to agree with you but, the Moral Majority is part of the Neo-Con movement.

I think the moral majority LEADERSHIP has been coopted into the neocon movement in large part, but that is the use of manipulation etc I was discussing before. I think the BASE of the moral majority, so to speak, is less coniving. I think neocons do not have a base, they are merely 'elite' seeing themselves as knowing better and moving the masses through the ideals of the masses which they will give lip service 'respectability' to in more gilded circles, in order to get the masses behind them.

Bill Kristol I see as different from Sarah Palin or O'Donnell, so far, but he is Sarah's mentor, and I'm sure would like to be O'Donnell's if she gets to the Senate. But I think SP has some of her own ideas, as well. I don't 'follow' her, but I can see the difference between her and Kristol, etc.

 

[Thargok]

While I agree with most of what is said, the major issue that I have with the Tea Party (which was mentioned) is the fact that is a movement of the religious right. Even those who openly bash Bush turn around and preach sermons creating an artificial limit to the size and scope of the movement. I have seen a large quantity of Jewish and non-religious people who openly associate with the "ideas" of the movement become so disenfranchised that they leave many events disgusted.

 

[beazy]

Which part of his speech was booed other than marijuana legislation ??? I happen to be a advocate for that as well and believe in personal freedoms, but no one said the tea party was strictly a libertarian movement. It sounded as if the crowd applauded 90% of his speech?

 

[LibertyMage]

I guess you missed the whole Gary Johnson speech where "Our Ideas" were booed. The fact most of these people are just mad because we have growing government under democrats and not a Republican president is their problem.

Intellectual movements have always started with an ultra small minority. They grow successful by finding common ground with a larger group, building rapport and expanding your ideas. Taking your most radical idea and just throwing it at people has never worked and will never work. Our war message is gaining more ground than the legalization message is.

The spread of ideas is gradual. If you want 100% or nothing, you will get nothing. The fact that the political establishment has already taken on (to some degree) our message means that we have already won part of the battle.

Sailingaway hit the nail on the head: movements are successful when they are able to put their intellectual leadership in front of the pack. We have been unsuccessful thus far because we have let other people get out in front of the Tea Parties. If you insist on not being involved with the Tea Parties, you are missing an opportunity.

 

[BamaFanNKy]

Intellectual movements have always started with an ultra small minority. They grow successful by finding common ground with a larger group, building rapport and expanding your ideas. Taking your most radical idea and just throwing it at people has never worked and will never work. Our war message is gaining more ground than the legalization message is.

The spread of ideas is gradual. If you want 100% or nothing, you will get nothing. The fact that the political establishment has already taken on (to some degree) our message means that we have already won part of the battle.

Sailingaway hit the nail on the head: movements are successful when they are able to put their intellectual leadership in front of the pack. We have been unsuccessful thus far because we have let other people get out in front of the Tea Parties. If you insist on not being involved with the Tea Parties, you are missing an opportunity.

You have a better shot at converting Moderate/Independents to us than hard leaning neo-cons who love war and value their religion over personal freedoms. That's the issue. Many of these are staunch church based members who lean more Alan Keyes than to a Liberty based Ron Paul.

I'm not saying all or nothing. I am calling them out on their lack of consistency. You have to challenge people or they will never change.

 

[beazy]

Ya so I still would like to know which parts of his speech was booed except the marijuana legislation...? I will confess i didnt watch it completely through just skimmed it, but it seemed like this one the only part with the crowd applauded everything else?

Response Bama? Because if that is all it was it is a far stretch to say they were booing everything he said

 

[angelatc]

If you really feel that way, then you need to start looking at the Tea Party in a different light. Pissed off people - regardless of their beliefs - create a leadership vacuum and are a vessel for change. This has been true throughout history. Those who have worked with the Tea Parties have been pushed to the front of the line. Those who have abstained due to some personal quandary have made themselves irrelevant.

The Tea Parties are probably the most fertile ground for our ideas that we will see in our lifetime. You need to stop thinking personally and start thinking politically. Get over your personal issues with the Tea Party and start finding some way to work with them.

Yes, ironically enough, the TEA Party is why I'm not as big a fan of the Ron Paul movement as I used to be. When these things were first getting off the ground, I was begging and pleading with people to get off the internet and cash in on the movement by organizing rallies. If more of us had done that, we'd have a big voice at the table.

We're pretty useless when it comes to seizing opportunities. All we do is bitch about other people who are more effective than we are.

 

[newyearsrevolution08]

I think we will do well in the presidential election this time, whether it be backing ron paul or another constitutional candidate. We only have a couple more tries to get our country back in a civil manner.

 

[BamaFanNKy]

Ya so I still would like to know which parts of his speech was booed except the marijuana legislation...? I will confess i didnt watch it completely through just skimmed it, but it seemed like this one the only part with the crowd applauded everything else?

Response Bama? Because if that is all it was it is a far stretch to say they were booing everything he said

From people I know in the audience there and faintly on video he was booed when talking about defense spending.

 

[sailingaway]

You have a better shot at converting Moderate/Independents to us than hard leaning neo-cons who love war and value their religion over personal freedoms. That's the issue. Many of these are staunch church based members who lean more Alan Keyes than to a Liberty based Ron Paul.

I'm not saying all or nothing. I am calling them out on their lack of consistency. You have to challenge people or they will never change.

My point is that I don't think the moral majority BASE IS hard leaning neocons, and I think they would quite possibly be happy with church autonomy and many are pushing for control because their religious beliefs are NOT being left alone -- such as Catholic Charity hospitals having to perform abortion because they were given govt funding (which initially was simply because they were the ones with the hospitals, for distributing vaccines etc.) When govt tries to control religious action, they are furious. Get the govt completely out of their religious beliefs, and you have Rand's pitch to them. Which many of them like. Some don't.

 

[BamaFanNKy]

My point is that I don't think the moral majority BASE IS hard leaning neocons, and I think they would quite possibly be happy with church autonomy and many are pushing for control because their religious beliefs are NOT being left alone -- such as Catholic Charity hospitals having to perform abortion because they were given govt funding (which initially was simply because they were the ones with the hospitals, for distributing vaccines etc.) When govt tries to control religious action, they are furious. Get the govt completely out of their religious beliefs, and you have Rand's pitch to them. Which many of them like. Some don't.

I've got Moral Majority inlaws. They love them some Middle East war.

 

[sailingaway]

I've got Moral Majority inlaws. They love them some Middle East war.

Many who do had it fed to them carefully and are approachable. Others not. But they aren't all the same. You might like Southern Avenger's new video on Christine O'Donnell, by the way.

 

[BamaFanNKy]

Many who do had it fed to them carefully and are approachable. Others not. But they aren't all the same. You might like Southern Avenger's new video on Christine O'Donnell, by the way.

What's funny... He posted it after I wrote that last night:
http://freemaninky.blogspot.com/2010/09/difference-between-odonnell-and-paul.html