Why Dr. Paul lost my support

[mattman59]

Ever since I heard about Dr. Paul and what he stood for I really wanted to do everything I could to get him elected. Over the past few months I have noticed a lot of things I really don't like. Today I read 2 quotes from him that was the straw that broke the camel's back.

"The notion of a rigid separation between church and state has no basis in either the text of the Constitution or the writings of our Founding Fathers. On the contrary, our Founders’ political views were strongly informed by their religious beliefs". — Ron Paul

"Churches as institutions compete with the state for the people’s allegiance, and many devout people put their faith in God before their faith in the state. Knowing this, the secularists wage an ongoing war against religion, chipping away bit by bit at our nation’s Christian heritage." - Ron Paul

I am an atheist, I have no problems with religion but it has no place in our government.

 

[Brandybuck]

I am an atheist, I have no problems with religion but it has no place in our government.

And how do any of those quotes affect that? As long as government isn't either promoting or hindering religion, there is not a problem.

 

[Exponent]

I don't like this either (I'm personally rather passionate in my dislike of religion in general, most notably when it is advocated as a method of discovering Truth), but since Ron Paul's idea is almost that government "has no place in our government", it become largely irrelevant, and I doubt that our country would move toward a theocracy in any way whatsoever under a Paul presidency.

 

[t3soro]

I'm an atheist too, and I can assure you RP won't be shoving his nor anyone else's religious values down our throats. What is meant by this quote is that the current mindset of the secularists is that religion and state can not coexist. RP argues that on a LOCAL level, allowing prayer in schools (not endorsing one deity, but just voluntary prayer or a moment of silence in general) is not prohibited by the constitution, nor is it a problem for atheists, Mormons, Muslims, Catholics, etc. He's not suggesting subversion of the First Amendment and instituting national religion. And even if you disagree with this still, keep in mind that the President of the US is NOT a king, and he probably won't get anything passed through congress anyways regarding this issue.

 

[LibertyEagle]

Here's the thing... There have been incidences of kids wanting to pray by themselves or in groups on school grounds and they have been told they could not. While I agree that a public school teacher should not be requiring students to pray, isn't it the individual kid's choice as to whether they want to say a prayer outside? Should it be government's place to tell them they cannot?

 

[torchbearer]

troll?

 

[LibertyEagle]

Not necessarily. I think he has a concern is all.

 

[torchbearer]

I'm just cautious to react to someone who doesn't have many post under their belt.

 

[LibertyEagle]

Mattman,

We don't want the church to run our government, that is true. On the other hand, we also don't want government dictating when and where we can practice our religion of choice, or in your case, not practice one at all.

 

[CurtisLow]

troll?

My exact thoughts.....

 

[torchbearer]

Its sad to lose someone because of one issue, but one man can't be everyones man... unless you are clinton.. and then you just lie to everyone...
i guess that's the point. you know Dr. Paul isn't lying to you. you know what you are getting...
who else in the campaign can you say that about?

 

[ARealConservative]

I'm an athiest myself but I don't see a problem with what Dr. Paul is saying.

The 1st amendment was quite clear that it only pertained to congress. "Incorporation" was a result of the 14th amendment.

Claiming prayer isn't allowed in publlic schools, claiming the commandments can't be on state government buildings, and blocking Christmas displays on town lawns all came about from wording intended to give equal rights to slaves.

It would be hypocritical for me to argue about things such as general welfare, the commerce clause, gun restrictions, taxes, etc. and not also acknowledge the travesty that has come of the 1st amendment.

 

[Kuldebar]

Explain your position better, or don't bother.

Ron Paul is running for Chief Executive of the Federal Government. He maintains that the Federal Government has no rightful role in public education.

What does this have to do with state and local governments? He ain't running for Governor or Mayor.

And last time I checked, he's a religious man.

A principled one.

 

[SeekLiberty]

Ever since I heard about Dr. Paul and what he stood for I really wanted to do everything I could to get him elected. Over the past few months I have noticed a lot of things I really don't like. Today I read 2 quotes from him that was the straw that broke the camel's back.

"The notion of a rigid separation between church and state has no basis in either the text of the Constitution or the writings of our Founding Fathers. On the contrary, our Founders’ political views were strongly informed by their religious beliefs". — Ron Paul

"Churches as institutions compete with the state for the people’s allegiance, and many devout people put their faith in God before their faith in the state. Knowing this, the secularists wage an ongoing war against religion, chipping away bit by bit at our nation’s Christian heritage." - Ron Paul

I am an atheist, I have no problems with religion but it has no place in our government.

Then would be against the federal Constitution if you disagree with Ron Paul on this. Separation of church and state is not in our WE THE PEOPLE federal Constitution. Did you know that some ratifying states had official religions?

That's probably a bit scary to an atheist. But the problem is easy to solve. Live in a state that didn't. That's the beauty of the federal Union and Free and Independent States.

Perhaps you may want to read the new book "The Politically Incorrect Guide to the Constitution" which explains more about what I just said, and a hell of a lot more, too.

Of course, if you're not happy with our federal Constitution, you could start a project to ratify it, and if you're not happy with your State Constitution, you could do the same. If worse came to worse and you're not happy with the federal Constitution or any of the 50 State Constitutions, then there might be a Constitution you like somewhere in this world. But if not, you could always buy your own remote Island, and write your own.

I encourage everybody to understand our federal Constitution, and their local State Constitution.

- SL

 

[Bloody Holly]

I find it hard to believe you only have 10 posts here and decided you've lost faith in Ron Paul. If you are THAT critical of candidates, you are going to be one unhappy person.

I think it's rather rude and judgemental to hold someone's personal beliefs against them. Ron Paul would not push his beliefs on you. Why do atheists think they should have things just their way and why can't they tolerate the fact that some people believe in the tooth fairy while others believe in the boogey man??

Like it or not, it's unconstitutional for the congress to pass laws prohibiting the free exercise of religion nor favortism for one religion. What exactly has happened in the past?? That's right, something unconstitutional. Teachers may be paid for by our taxes but students lips are sealed. You have rights as an atheist but I think in the past it was taken too far to the point of just catering to the wishes of atheists in schools and silencing everyone else. You think your rights mean more or something??

I'm speaking to you as someone who does not follow religion but I don't mind spirituality

 

[Sojourner]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion...

Guess what...we already have a state established religion...the state as god.

Ron Paul would end that, seriously.

 

[Oddball]

Guess what...we already have a state established religion...the state as god.

Ron Paul would end that, seriously.

Damn straight!!

 

[sickmint79]

i have an atheist friend, haven't admitted it to myself but may be becoming one. ron paul absolutely has my full support however, i consider it a trivial matter in terms of the real issues.

 

[kimosabi]

Ever since I heard about Dr. Paul and what he stood for I really wanted to do everything I could to get him elected. Over the past few months I have noticed a lot of things I really don't like. Today I read 2 quotes from him that was the straw that broke the camel's back.

"The notion of a rigid separation between church and state has no basis in either the text of the Constitution or the writings of our Founding Fathers. On the contrary, our Founders’ political views were strongly informed by their religious beliefs". — Ron Paul

"Churches as institutions compete with the state for the people’s allegiance, and many devout people put their faith in God before their faith in the state. Knowing this, the secularists wage an ongoing war against religion, chipping away bit by bit at our nation’s Christian heritage." - Ron Paul

I am an atheist, I have no problems with religion but it has no place in our government.

I can't see what the problem is here. 200 years ago religion played a much larger part in society than it does today so Ron Paul is correct in the first statement.

His second Statement is exactly right. I can't see what the problem is.

And what do presidents say when they are sworn in? "So help me God"

If you don't believe in God, I sure Ron Paul isn't going to stick you in a Gulag because of it.

Your beliefs are your beliefs. Ron Pauls beliefs are his beliefs. I don't think Ron Paul is about pushing his beliefs onto others and neither should anyone else.

 

[Kuldebar]

Have some faith in your atheism, and get a grip.

I would expect a little more pragmatism and, shall we say, practicality from such an individualist as yourself.