Why do we need to abolish the Fed? What's the alternative?

[Met Income]

Need to get back to basics. Thanks!

 

[Smiley Gladhands]

The alternative is more personal responsibility, fewer wars, smaller government, more individual liberty, less corruption and corporatism, etc.

Hope that helps.

 

[brandon]

Need to get back to basics. Thanks!

Really? You've been a member here for a year and you don't understand the basic arguments against the fed? Look through the economics subforum. It's been covered a million times. Or better yet, go to mises.org and read some articles.

 

[dannno]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6507136891691870450

 

[Kotin]

Central economic planning is historically flawed. the manipulation of interest rates by the Central Bank is at the heart of our problem.

especially when it is carried out by international bankers and not We The People.

but either way.. in a Free Market Economy there is no need for a central bank.

............

 

[tmosley]

Quick synopsis:

The Fed creates a business cycle (boom/bust cycle) by setting interest rates at artificial levels. They create money from nothing, loaning it out at interest, accumulating money while providing no value to anyone (in fact, creating a whole class of economic parasites-bankers and pencil pushers).

The alternatives:

Fiat currency controlled by the government, which is bad in that hyperinflation and mismanagement can still occur, but it's better to at least have some openness.

Gold standard controlled by the government, which is good because it forces the government to be fiscally responsible, but it is bad in that there is less flexibility in the system, which can impede growth.

Non-standardized currency which is unregulated by the government, which is good because it provides maximum choice. The only downside to this is that with many currencies comes confusion, which MIGHT make trade difficult and lead to higher rates of crime--not particularly likely, but it is an unknown.

 

[micahnelson]

Whats the alternative to cancer?

 

[emazur]

1) They caused the September meltdown, and the Great Depression
2) Inflation
3) They're not done wrecking things yet

Read my fourth comment down in this post:
http://digg.com/business_finance/WTF_Fed_Pledges_Exceed_7_4_Trillion_to_Ease_Frozen_Credit
to get a more thorough explanation .
And if you want to see Central Banks at their absolute worst, read the story of Andrew Jackson vs. Nicholas Biddle - it's in the final chapter in free ebook "Meet the System" - pdf is available here:
http://www.joeplummer.com/meet_the_system.html
and have a glance at the Fed's report card:
http://www.abolishthefederalreserve.com/?page_id=127

 

[danberkeley]

facepalm

 

[Dr.3D]

Why do we need to sweep the floor? What's the alternative?

I guess a dirty floor!

Or in the case of the Federal Reserve, a dirty economy.

 

[xd9fan]

Well in a nutshell there is no way that 50 people can do the work, match the random talent and energy of a free market nation.

 

[ShowMeLiberty]

Why end the Fed?

By 2001 the purchasing power of one U.S. dollar had dropped to $0.04.

What is it today? What happens when it reaches $0.00?

What's the alternative? I guess we'll find out soon enough.

 

[Truth Warrior]

Need to get back to basics. Thanks!

Great idea!

RPF has 1,500+ threads on 58 pages of info on the Fed in this forum. Economics & Sound Money

Homework time!<IMHO>

 

[acptulsa]

So, a child is born in 1913. His father decides its never too soon to teach the child to save, so he gets a brand new Federal Reserve one dollar bill and sets it aside for the child. When the child grows up, he's so impressed by this that he doesn't spend the dollar either, and he still has it now, ninety-five years later.

When his father gave him the dollar, it took him all day to earn it. Sounds bad, but in fact that dollar would buy ten loaves of bread. Now it and another one would buy one loaf of bread--provided it wasn't very good bread.

So, old guy's father worked all day for a dollar that would buy ten loaves of bread, and instead of getting that bread while it was hot, he decided his boy might need ten loaves of bread someday. So, he gives his child ten loaves of bread in the form of a dollar, and now the old guy's dollar will buy half a loaf of bread. So, who stole the other nine and a half loaves of bread?

The Federal Reserve stole it. If the dollar today would buy ten loaves of bread, the Federal Reserve wouldn't have made a shitload of money since 1913. Their entire profit margin is predicated on the notion that the dollar you earned today won't be the same dollar tomorrow. And you wonder why Americans think saving is a fool's game--it is and they're right. But gold could fix that. Gold is what it is.

Now, what has the Fed done for us that gold couldn't besides rip us off?

 

[acptulsa]

That clear it up?

 

[The One]

Why do we need to sweep the floor? What's the alternative?

I guess a dirty floor!

Or in the case of the Federal Reserve, a dirty economy.

I'm surprised your analogy wasn't, "Why do we need to wipe our asses?"

 

[Dr.3D]

I'm surprised your analogy wasn't, "Why do we need to wipe our asses?"

Yeah, I guess I was trying to keep it clean....
With the FED around, that is pretty hard to do though.

Same difference though.

 

[Zippyjuan]

A loaf of bread in Chicago, 1913 cost an average of 6.1 cents. http://historicaltextarchive.com/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=418
The same source says that a loaf in 2002 cost $1.49.

I am having difficulties finding median income for 1913, but according to this article http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4188/is_/ai_n16786596 median income in 1915 was $687 or about 11,000 loaves of bread. Probably most people in 1913 made their own bread instead of buying it. Few people make their own bread today.
According to this US census report http://www.census.gov/prod/2003pubs/p60-221.pdf , median household income in 2002 was about $42,400 or over 28,000 loaves of bread. Are you better or worse off? Have you really lost 96% of your purchasing power? No. In terms of how much bread you can buy with a day's work, you are more than twice as well off.

 

[HOLLYWOOD]

So, a child is born in 1913. His father decides its never too soon to teach the child to save, so he gets a brand new Federal Reserve one dollar bill and sets it aside for the child. When the child grows up, he's so impressed by this that he doesn't spend the dollar either, and he still has it now, ninety-five years later.

When his father gave him the dollar, it took him all day to earn it. Sounds bad, but in fact that dollar would buy ten loaves of bread. Now it and another one would buy one loaf of bread--provided it wasn't very good bread.

So, old guy's father worked all day for a dollar that would buy ten loaves of bread, and instead of getting that bread while it was hot, he decided his boy might need ten loaves of bread someday. So, he gives his child ten loaves of bread in the form of a dollar, and now the old guy's dollar will buy half a loaf of bread. So, who stole the other nine and a half loaves of bread?

The Federal Reserve stole it. If the dollar today would buy ten loaves of bread, the Federal Reserve wouldn't have made a shitload of money since 1913. Their entire profit margin is predicated on the notion that the dollar you earned today won't be the same dollar tomorrow. And you wonder why Americans think saving is a fool's game--it is and they're right. But gold could fix that. Gold is what it is.

Now, what has the Fed done for us that gold couldn't besides rip us off?

Yeah what ^^^^^he says.... AND

The Tax on ANY product tagged by the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, artificially inflating ANY product by the FEDERAL RESERVE, makes YOU have to use many MORE FEDERAL RESERVE NOTES to purchase the same amount of product.

SO FED RESERVE you did your job by inflating the cost to the consumer

SO Government you take your GREATER percentage on the inflated price of those products.


Say a new tire costs $100 the sales tax is 10% = government gets $10

Say an airline ticket costs $1000 - did you know 10% of that ticket is a federal Excise tax? The government's take: $100 out of your pocket!


I just LOVE using Socialistic California as a great example, Digusting that between the FEDERAL and STATE governments... over half you paycheck goes to government!


Taxable Pay/Week: $2,000.00

FICA Withholding 124.00
Medicare Withholding 29.00
Federal Withholding 433.71
California Withholding 137.48
California Disability $19.18
California Unemply $22.00

Net Pay 1,236,63



So your left with 61.8% paycheck

now take that 61.8% and go pay your mobile phone bill, grocery, fuel, and utility bills.

look on each of those bills and disreguard the monthly charge and just add up ALL the deductions (Taxes, Fees, Surcharges) on each of those bills!

Lets take the 61.8% and visit a California Gas station in San Franciso:

You have a wonder BMW 850 and it's on empty do you need to put 24.5 gallons in it of Premium gas at a Shell station, here's their prices:

Reg
$2.42.9
Mid
$2.87.9
Prem
$2.97.9

[BTotal Fuel Bill: $72.99 [/B]

Portion of the total bill in TAX:

$6.37 is State Sales Tax
$4.48 is Federal Excise Tax
$4.41 is State Excise Tax
$0.37 is Federal Leaking Fuel Tank Tax/Fee

$15.63 is TAX or 21.41% of the fuel charge

add your paycheck deduction plus all of your fuel taxes/fees so the labors of your effective earnings are only worth:

40.39%

State & Federal governments take almost 60% of your LABOR to buy gas!

Mobile phone or home phone costs are even more taxing... well below 40%!

I won't even get into the Medical/Dental Expenses charges/fees/costs/deductables/premiums = INSULTING JOKE!

 

[acptulsa]

median household income in 2002 was about $42,400 or over 28,000 loaves of bread. Are you better or worse off? Have you really lost 96% of your purchasing power? No. In terms of how much bread you can buy with a day's work, you are more than twice as well off.

The beauty of machine made bread. Even so, when you try to save for a rainy day you either go to no small amount of trouble to ensure that your investment will keep up with inflation or you let the Fed rip some of your savings off. No third way.