Why do we need permits?

I'll Bite...

I love Liberty, but I am highly skeptical where justice is concerned.

As much as I would love NOT to ask permission for driving a car, I would like to hear from someone who actually drives without a license and registration, on a daily basis, throughout a camera monitored, LEO patrolled, municipal, police state, and does NOT lose thousands of FRNs in impound fees, and one week per month in and out of the court system.

The police do not care about my rights, nor do they want to hear my appeal "on the road."

The cops are in the revenue enforcement business: they cite, impound, and schedule court appearances only in the event that an individual chooses to fight.


The last time I visited traffic court, I received a parking ticket while I was inside...
 
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MindOfMo Gun Permitting decimates significance of A Well Regulated Militia. Government without meaningful Opposition is not Government, but Tyranny.
about 5 hours ago from web
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A permit or a license is where you seek the state's permission to do something that is otherwise considered illegal.
 
A permit or a license is where you seek the state's permission to do something that is otherwise considered illegal.

Which has "NO PERMIT REQUIRED" written all over it.

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.


Permits constitute Triple Whammy Infringement:

1.) expense (money)
2.) bureaucratic hassle (time and money)
3.) broadcasting identity and whereabouts (Psst! I am Opposition, over HERE.)
 
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If the 2A has any meaning at all, military arms (currently M16s, M4s, and M2, M60, ad M240 machine guns) are the arms most protected and can not be infringed upon by government. This is why the Hamblen case is of vital importance, and the Miller and Heller cases are consistent (Heller less so in the dicta) with no infringement on arms of military utility - i. e. militia service.

A militia without military grade weapons is not capable of performing its duty.
 
Black's Law Dictionary defines "license" as, "The permission by competent authority to do an act which without such permission, would be illegal."

It basically changes the act from a "right" to a "privilege."

As for driving, I think it might be fair if people became exempt from taxes used towards road construction and maintenance if they did not have a license. (or, taxes weren't used at all, and the roads were funded by fees on the license itself).
Would the bolded phrase disqualify the .gov?
 
What does "inalienable right" and the 2nd amendment mean if we need a permit to own and posess firearms? Does the government grant us the right to own property (including firearms), or are we naturally free people who can own and posess property at free will. Does the right exist because we pay permit fees?

I know these are rhetorical questions, but the more I think about it, the more I realize how absurd it is that we let the government dictate who can own property when we are individual beings. What is even more corrupt is that we need to pay fees for permits just so the government promises to leave us alone. People actually put up with it. We need permission from the government to own property or transfer property between private parties. Reminds me of the mafia and facsist governments.

Have any other people on this forum ever had this revelation regarding property rights? I think about this almost all the time, but never really care to talk about it or bring it up; these ideas normally just tend to stay in my head.

We need permits so our masters know where the guns are.
 
What does "inalienable right" and the 2nd amendment mean if we need a permit to own and posess firearms? Does the government grant us the right to own property (including firearms), or are we naturally free people who can own and posess property at free will. Does the right exist because we pay permit fees?

I know these are rhetorical questions, but the more I think about it, the more I realize how absurd it is that we let the government dictate who can own property when we are individual beings. What is even more corrupt is that we need to pay fees for permits just so the government promises to leave us alone. People actually put up with it. We need permission from the government to own property or transfer property between private parties. Reminds me of the mafia and facsist governments.

Have any other people on this forum ever had this revelation regarding property rights? I think about this almost all the time, but never really care to talk about it or bring it up; these ideas normally just tend to stay in my head.

A Right is only a Right if the people are not willing to give it up voluntarily, and fight for any and all violations of those rights.

*speaking about rights in general, not just the Right to Arm Bears...
 
What does "inalienable right" and the 2nd amendment mean if we need a permit to own and posess firearms? Does the government grant us the right to own property (including firearms), or are we naturally free people who can own and posess property at free will. Does the right exist because we pay permit fees?

I know these are rhetorical questions, but the more I think about it, the more I realize how absurd it is that we let the government dictate who can own property when we are individual beings. What is even more corrupt is that we need to pay fees for permits just so the government promises to leave us alone. People actually put up with it. We need permission from the government to own property or transfer property between private parties. Reminds me of the mafia and facsist governments.

Have any other people on this forum ever had this revelation regarding property rights? I think about this almost all the time, but never really care to talk about it or bring it up; these ideas normally just tend to stay in my head.

In Missouri, you can own, possess & even open carry a firearm. The State Constitution though prohibits Concealed Carry(amended now) without a permit.
The problem with Open Carry though is that as soon as you put on a coat in cold weather it becomes concealed or if you put on a rain coat to keep yourself & your firearm dry it becomes concealed.
And then there's the old standby, when somebody freaks out because your carrying a firearm & they arrest you for "Disturbing the Peace".

The Permit issue is a load of crap in my opinion. If we are already paying, through state & federal taxes, for the Sheriff's office & FBI to perform its duties, then why do we need to pay them to run a background check on us to get a permit that we are entitled to???

Your statement about the Mafia is correct IMO.
"Taxes" are the equivalent to the percentage that the mafia imposes on its victims!!!
 
The second amendment makes no distinction between open carry and concealed carry. Therefore they are both rights.
 
I like my State's constitution regarding the right to bear arms a little better than the federal constitution's.

SECTION 24 RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS. The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself, or the state, shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain or employ an armed body of men.

Still I think it also needs to be shortened.

A simple "The right of individuals to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" should suffice.
 
I like my State's constitution regarding the right to bear arms a little better than the federal constitution's.

SECTION 24 RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS. The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself, or the state, shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain or employ an armed body of men.

Still I think it also needs to be shortened.

A simple "The right of individuals to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" should suffice.

My state's constitution (New Jersey) seems to have left out ANYTHING regarding the right to bear arms...
 
This thread has inspired me to post a paper I wrote for a Political Science class I had (I'll post it in the constitution section, the following is not the paper).

When the bill of rights were being proposed, many people were against it, because they believed the government would use the "rights" as a guideline for what they can and can not do. Which is not how governmet is supposed to work. WE are supposed to tell THEM what they can and can not do. It is for this very reason the preamble to the Bill of Rights was written.

“THE Conventions of a number of the States, having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added: And as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government, will worst ensure the beneficent starts of its institution.”


It's right there, clear as day. The bill of rights was solely written to explicitly deny any authority to the government on these matters.

And with the Ninth and Tenth Amendments, were an attempt to subvert any trickery on the government's part.

“The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.”

“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”

It is once again clear that the Bill of Rights were not a comprehensive and exacting list of our "rights" but only a convenient list of absolute "back off" warnings to the government.


Instead our government, and our common ignorance has lost any understanding of true human rights. And laws are written in exacting ways to do everything but deny a tiny sliver of what the Bill of Rights intended.

The Second Amendment was never meant to be the end all authority. WE WERE. And when it says "shall not be infringed" it so meant it, that it meant a million other issues the government had yet to conceive.

The Republic they laid out in the Constitution is a distant memory compared to this nation. Here, rights are priviliges, and human effort is considered a right. The government controls the people.


Alexander Hamilton wrote in Federalist no. 84;

“I go further, and affirm that bills of rights, in the sense and in the extent in which they are contended for, are not only unnecessary in the proposed constitution, but would even be dangerous. They would contain various exceptions to powers which are not granted; and on this very account, would afford a colourable pretext to claim more than were granted. For why declare that things shall not be done which there is no power to do? Why for instance, should it be said, that the liberty of the press shall not be restrained, when no power is given by which restrictions may be imposed? I will not contend that such a provision would confer a regulating power; but it is evident that it would furnish, to men disposed to usurp, a plausible pretence for claiming that power. They might urge with a semblance of reason, that the constitution ought not to be charged with the absurdity of providing against the abuse of an authority, which was not given, and that the provision against restraining the liberty of the press afforded a clear implication, that a power to prescribe proper regulations concerning it, was intended to be vested in the national government. This may serve as a specimen of the numerous handles which would be given to the doctrine of constructive powers, by the indulgence of an injudicious zeal for bills of rights.”
 
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