pcosmar
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well yes,, there is that.
Why do so many Ron Paul members doubt the dangers of socialism?
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well yes,, there is that.
acptulsa
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It did? Why would it have been dissatisfied with Batista? They had plenty invested in him, and he was doing just as he was told.
enhanced_deficit
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Wasn't really thinking from propaganda perspective, it was just a quick thought that voters might not just see drawbacks of "socialism" in a vaccuum and in reactive mode can elect opposite of whatever failed them last.
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It’s been a long road to get here for Venezuela. It follows a pattern though. Wealth there for the taking. Central banking, crony corporatism, crony socialism, nationalization of the oil industry and finally, someone takes charge that no longer caters to all of the corrupt cronies, and then it is a disaster. They nationalize more, and the cronies wage an international PR campaign against them.
The essential problem was crony socialism, by a kleptocratic class. Socialism helps them, until it finally turns on them. Reminiscent of Russia and Cuba. It just gets tricky over time to keep a socialist kleptocracy going. Neoconservatives are still mad at Stalin (and Russia) for turning on them. Now they are mad at Maduro. There would be no Chavez or Maduro without the corruption that preceded them.
Socialism fails because it eliminates market forces and enables corruption.
The essential problem was crony socialism, by a kleptocratic class. Socialism helps them, until it finally turns on them. Reminiscent of Russia and Cuba. It just gets tricky over time to keep a socialist kleptocracy going. Neoconservatives are still mad at Stalin (and Russia) for turning on them. Now they are mad at Maduro. There would be no Chavez or Maduro without the corruption that preceded them.
Socialism fails because it eliminates market forces and enables corruption.
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acptulsa
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Or if they can't get the opposite, they're certainly likely to choose a different flavor.
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Unfortunately, we are on the same road as Venezuela, just a decade or two behind them.
acptulsa
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Naturally the forward thinking imperialist power is ready with a replacement for the dictator the unhappy peasants are about to overthrow. Which is why I don't disbelieve Pete when he says the U.S. set Castro up.
Well, at least we don't have to worry about the bastards who are trying to interfere with them interfering with us.
Unless we try to get an Unapproved Candidate nominated or an Unapproved Party elected. Then we just might get trolled...
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TheCount
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More than a couple decades. We're at the 'corrupt crony' stage right now... its peak, arguably. If the US goes full central planned socialist, it will take a very, very long time for the inevitable slow decline to finally end the country.
TheCount
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That's only natural. There's a difference between that and actually believing all of the shit that Chavez said.
To take a more extreme example, it's one thing to believe that the US has warmongering and imperialist tendencies, and another to believe that, since North Korean propaganda might be right about that, it's right about everything, and therefore North Korea is secretly a wonderful communist utopia.
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Strangely, from certain angles, Trump is the US Chavez. He was an advocate of the common man. Trump is not a SJW like Chavez, and Trump is not really into nationalizing industries like Chavez, but there is another similarity: Trump was not supposed to win. He was not approved, vetted and endorsed by the swamp. And in the same vein as Chavez, the swamp went after Trump as hard as they could, including an international smear campaign.
timosman
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You can argue the swamp lost their way. They were not supposed to fuck the commoners so hard.
acptulsa
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They do that to every approved Republican.. Republicans will not nominate him if they don't. They did it to Ford. They did it to Reagan. They didn't do any more to H.W. than absolutely necessary (God forbid they piss that one off). Bob Dole knows they did it to Bob Dole. They did it to Dubya and then some. They did it to McCain until they realized no Republicans liked him, then they backed off. They did it to Romney.
They did.
All of them.
Republicans won't nominate them otherwise.
The ones they don't approve of Must Not Be Named.
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Perhaps to a certain extent, but what has happened around Trump with the swamp trying to eliminate him is unprecedented.
My hypothesis is that they didn’t trust him not to expose the corruption and crimes that preceded him. He said he would put Hillary in jail. What else would he do? How far would he go? What secrets might he reveal? They had to either eliminate him or keep him constantly reeling from attacks.
They still don’t trust him, but they are more than happy to run his administration for him and get as much out of it as they can, with the added bonus that they can blame it on Trump.
Champ
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Good thread. It's telling at this point. I mentioned something along the same lines a couple weeks ago. Had the same board participants mentioning the same talking points and the same similar attacks on their perceived threats, in a previous thread (and many threads that came before and after), and obfuscating the fact that they, in their efforts to be anti-Trump 24/7, will use the pro-socialism angle, if necessary, to make the polemic against Trump and his supporters/defenders here.
You don't have to like Trump at all, he is what he is and we aren't getting anywhere near as much reduction in government and deep state power as we should be, and many understandably think that he is a fraudster doing the bidding of the Bush family and the neocons, or that he is on the take from the beginning and was always going to work for the deep state, but that doesn't mean you have to endorse socialism or argue on behalf of it, in order to attack or oppose anyone that likes/supports Trump in even the slightest. This is what is happening, this is why there is a peak amount of neutral or pro socialist posts now on the boards. This is why Tulsi, who is decent on foreign policy (until we actually want to pull troops out), is even being highlighted or talked about here in increasingly positive ways, and her economic policies are being virtually ignored.
It's possible many of these people doing this now, are not here because they support liberty and seek to divide our little community here. In fact, I would say it's likely. It's also possible that there are those that joined the liberty/Ron Paul movement in an organic way, but were coming from a liberal standpoint. We had a lot of previous Obama voters come into the fold in 2012. We had people that even voted for Ralph Nader in 96/00/04 or Kerry in 04 that had had it, and wanted to see some real change happen and signed up with RP in 08. The stories are endless, but a lot of these people were likely pro welfare state and pro-centralized government doing good things from the get go. They may have rethought a couple things as RP ironed them out on economics a bit, but now that we have Trump in there, they have unknowingly or willingly regressed back to their big government ideologies in a defensive stance as some of these socialist ideas are now being attacked more than ever, and attacking Trump more hides or deflects away from the insecurity that these people will be seen for what they are.
That's what you are seeing and what will continue to happen. The efforts and momentum will continue long after Trump is gone, so make no mistake about it, this isn't about just him, this is about core ideologies that were rotten from the start and are only now being exposed as our own government continues to be exposed for the fraud that it is on the American people.
You don't have to like Trump at all, he is what he is and we aren't getting anywhere near as much reduction in government and deep state power as we should be, and many understandably think that he is a fraudster doing the bidding of the Bush family and the neocons, or that he is on the take from the beginning and was always going to work for the deep state, but that doesn't mean you have to endorse socialism or argue on behalf of it, in order to attack or oppose anyone that likes/supports Trump in even the slightest. This is what is happening, this is why there is a peak amount of neutral or pro socialist posts now on the boards. This is why Tulsi, who is decent on foreign policy (until we actually want to pull troops out), is even being highlighted or talked about here in increasingly positive ways, and her economic policies are being virtually ignored.
It's possible many of these people doing this now, are not here because they support liberty and seek to divide our little community here. In fact, I would say it's likely. It's also possible that there are those that joined the liberty/Ron Paul movement in an organic way, but were coming from a liberal standpoint. We had a lot of previous Obama voters come into the fold in 2012. We had people that even voted for Ralph Nader in 96/00/04 or Kerry in 04 that had had it, and wanted to see some real change happen and signed up with RP in 08. The stories are endless, but a lot of these people were likely pro welfare state and pro-centralized government doing good things from the get go. They may have rethought a couple things as RP ironed them out on economics a bit, but now that we have Trump in there, they have unknowingly or willingly regressed back to their big government ideologies in a defensive stance as some of these socialist ideas are now being attacked more than ever, and attacking Trump more hides or deflects away from the insecurity that these people will be seen for what they are.
That's what you are seeing and what will continue to happen. The efforts and momentum will continue long after Trump is gone, so make no mistake about it, this isn't about just him, this is about core ideologies that were rotten from the start and are only now being exposed as our own government continues to be exposed for the fraud that it is on the American people.
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Or it fails because the United States does not want the world to see socialist countries, like Iraq, Syria, and Libya succeed, so they utterly destroy them.
Libya
Libya
Libya was a successful socialist nation
Libya
Libya
Libya had no real economic crisis.
Libya
Libya
Libya is a capitalist shithole now.
Like fuck they did. Stop trying to tell me bald faced lies to my face. Every one here was alive during Romney. None of the GOP candidates got anything like the Trump treatment. NOT EVEN CLOSE. I WAS ALIVE AT THE TIME, SO YOU DON'T GET TO TRY AND LIE TO MY FUCKING FACE LIKE THAT, and insult my intelligence like I can't remember.
acptulsa
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Them shoving a non-politician on us was unprecedented. His third grade behavior was unprecedented. Us making the progress we did with Ron Paul, and getting him that much crossover support was unprecedented. The poll numbers were unprecedented. Making us endure more than a dozen years of war was unprecedented. Them giving the amount of publicity they did to an ex-Socialist Party crank was unprecedented.
So were the poll numbers. They were getting approval ratings of, what, 15%? The internet was unprecedented, and they were just getting a handle on their trolling technique.
Extraordinary times call for extraordinary measures.
Besides, I don't remember it that way. They roasted Dubya hard. Maybe you don't remember because you didn't like the little bastard, and knew he deserved it. They roasted Reagan hard, too.
Republicans vote for the candidate who gets a bunch of bad publicity. They don't vote for He Who Gets Ignored and they don't vote for He The Liburral Media Likes. Republican primary voters are incredibly easy to play.
And the internet only made it easier. All it takes is a little schoolyard bullying to keep them on the Approved Candidate.
Why are you shouting? Am I cutting into your cognitive dissidence?
When did they have time to give Romney everything they've given Trump? Did Romney get elected? Did I say they gave them all the same sized ration of shit? Did I say that? Don't you think they watch the polls to see if its working before they pile it on? Why do you think they spend those millions on those polls?
Did I say they all get the same size ration if shit? Did I? No, I did not. In fact, I said just the opposite. Didn't I?
Were you alive and old enough to qualify as sentient during the Dubya era? Does the Reagan video above surprise you?
No. I'm not lying. Sorry if that bursts your little bubble. Bit hey. Thanks for your contribution to this thread.
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The Rebel Poet
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Unprecedented my ass! How many bullets has Trump taken?? And did you forget the attempt to impeach w, and the fake documents the media promulgated? Herding cats is easy.
