Why do people think factory jobs are good?

[Occam's Banana]

Yes, I understand that.

Sorry. I wasn't trying to imply that you didn't.

I was just elaborating on the point you made.

 

[wizardwatson]

I think the existence of suicide nets shows not everyone thinks they are good.

 

[Swordsmyth]

I think the existence of suicide nets shows not everyone thinks they are good.

That's a China problem, it was never a US problem.
Seems to have to do with things other than factory jobs.

 

[Matt Collins]

Should replace the below meme with infinite wealth creation. Every time a trade occurs wealth is created, right?? Right!??!?!?!

You need to take business 101. Or even high school or elementary school business.

When a voluntary trade is made, both sides are better off after the trade. Otherwise they wouldn't have conducted the trade. This is not a difficult concept.

 

[wizardwatson]

That's a China problem, it was never a US problem.
Seems to have to do with things other than factory jobs.

The thread title says "people" not American people.

 

[oyarde]

No mnfg is going to mean no real wealt. Service economies are not real. People making your burger or giving you your deposit slip dont get most of an ins policy pd , dont get 10 pd olidays and dont get 3 weeks pd vacation.Only value in an entire service facility is real estate , if owned but probably leased, it is junk bond of economy

 

[TheTexan]

You need to take business 101. Or even high school or elementary school business.

When a voluntary trade is made, both sides are better off after the trade. Otherwise they wouldn't have conducted the trade. This is not a difficult concept.

Yes, but I was specifically talking about wealth. You can trade as many times as you want, it won't create wealth.

This is not a difficult concept.

You need to take basic kindergarten 101. Give 1 child a piece of candy and then trade it 5 times. Then ask the children how many pieces of candy there are. Probably less than you even started with.

 

[Swordsmyth]

The thread title says "people" not American people.

The Chinese would think factory jobs were great too, if it weren't for the other commie problems that cause the suicide net issue.
Commies can ruin anything and always do.
It's not the factory jobs that are the problem, and you do a terrible job of trying to contort logic to claim they are.

 

[Swordsmyth]

You need to take business 101. Or even high school or elementary school business.

When a voluntary trade is made, both sides are better off after the trade. Otherwise they wouldn't have conducted the trade. This is not a difficult concept.

Moving the deck chairs around on the Titanic to be more aesthetically pleasing might make some people better off for not thinking about the sinking going on, it does nothing to pump water out of the hull and patch the hole.

 

[Swordsmyth]

No mnfg is going to mean no real wealt. Service economies are not real. People making your burger or giving you your deposit slip dont get most of an ins policy pd , dont get 10 pd olidays and dont get 3 weeks pd vacation.Only value in an entire service facility is real estate , if owned but probably leased, it is junk bond of economy

"You will own nothing and be happy".

And Libertarians eat it up like hogs and slop if they can save 2 cents in the immediate term.

 

[oyarde]

"You will own nothing and be happy".

And Libertarians eat it up like hogs and slop if they can save 2 cents in the immediate term.

Lack of vision and experience.

 

[TheTexan]

"You will own nothing and be happy".

And Libertarians eat it up like hogs and slop if they can save 2 cents in the immediate term.

Their side would be easier to take seriously if they weren't pretending there wasn't a problem.

They don't even pretend to offer solutions. They're like that dog in the meme, "this is fine".

Well, this isn't fine.

If they don't like tariffs, I'm open to alternative solutions, but any ideas that keep us on our current trajectory is a non-starter.

 

[Swordsmyth]

Their side would be easier to take seriously if they weren't pretending there wasn't a problem.

They don't even pretend to offer solutions. They're like that dog in the meme, "this is fine".

Well, this isn't fine.

If they don't like tariffs, I'm open to alternative solutions, but any ideas that keep us on our current trajectory is a non-starter.

But THEY personally are rich (some more some less) at this time, and they think that they will end up on top side of the ever widening wealth gap and will never see their livelihoods destroyed so the Schwab set can be Feudal lords of the entire world.
Surely they will be spared as lesser nobility, so who cares about the peasants.
They lack the foresight to understand that they will be kicked down in the mud with everyone else sooner rather than later.

 

[wizardwatson]

The Chinese would think factory jobs were great too, if it weren't for the other commie problems that cause the suicide net issue.
Commies can ruin anything and always do.
It's not the factory jobs that are the problem, and you do a terrible job of trying to contort logic to claim they are.

I've actually had a factory job. I ran the packing machine at a factory that made those little foil-topped corn syrup laden rainbow drink things we sold to kids. Bad management, food coloring dyed my hands and feet, crap pay. They also would lie about incentives if we met quotas then lay people off.

That being said, still wasn't as bad as a telemarketing job. Those are the worst.

 

[Invisible Man]

But factories, are very good.

Owning and leveraging means of production is how wealth is created.

Yes. Especially when these factories are in other countries where we can exploit cheap labor and less burdensome regulations, so that we can free up Americans to do other jobs that instead of these factory jobs that, as you point out, are not good.

 

[TheTexan]

Yes. Especially when these factories are in other countries where we can exploit cheap labor and less burdensome regulations, so that we can free up Americans to do other jobs that instead of these factory jobs that, as you point out, are not good.

Yes, ideally every factory would be in China, so that everything that is ever produced is made outside of America.

This is obviously best for our long term security and economic health

 

[TheTexan]

Factories shutting down in the US and moving to China doesn't even really have much to do with labor cost these days. Or even regulations.

Factories in the US cannot be competitive even if the price of labor was 0 and there weren't any regulations.

This is because raw materials are cheaper in China. Everything from steel to plastics to nuts and bolts to those little twisty things that hold your bread bag closed.

It's all cheaper in China.

And its not because labor is cheaper.

It's because they have it all in one place. They don't have to ship it to other side of world.

Without any ability of US companies to compete, the natural end result of this is that the US will end up with absolutely zero industrial base.

Even after global wages equalize, the US will have absolutely zero industrial base.

It also means that US workers will be in entirely service roles, all of which are serving China. Our wages will continue to be driven down. Anything we do save, we will have no choice but to reinvest back into Chinese businesses.

Not to mention any semblance of US sovereignty would be eradicated.

But muh cheap shitz am I right? This is where we are headed. Is "muh cheap shitz" worth it?

I know you don't like tariffs but what is the solution? Even after global wages equalize, China will have a monopoly on manufacturing, because their monopoly is no longer reliant on labor cost.

Even after global wages equalize, how is the "free market" gonna correct this situation?

It's not.

Intervention is required.

Unless you want to start learning Chinese.

Tariffs are not even necessary in the long term. Once the US has a healthy industrial base, we can start talking about free trade again.

Unless you free trade people have some other solution that doesnt end up with the US literally becoming a wage slave to China?

 

[Swordsmyth]

I've actually had a factory job. I ran the packing machine at a factory that made those little foil-topped corn syrup laden rainbow drink things we sold to kids. Bad management, food coloring dyed my hands and feet, crap pay. They also would lie about incentives if we met quotas then lay people off.

That being said, still wasn't as bad as a telemarketing job. Those are the worst.

I've had factory jobs too, good pay compared to other jobs.