Why didn't we get behind Gary Johnson?

He is mushy, and seems to have no core principles beyond 'fiscal conservatism', that I was able to reason from. He has a cost benefit analysis for everything which is sort of 'as much as the other side will let me get away with without screaming too much' which of necessity always drops the crucial issues if the establishment screams too much. He doesn't seem to have an interest in sovereignty, which as government becomes more and more 'international' and removed from the dictates of individual citizens is a bad posture to have as president, imho. He was for NAFTA for example, then when running for president after it was unpopular partially retracted that, etc. Clearly, he is not a strict Constitutionalist. He believes in 'compassionate war' (not the right term, but going places with rich tactical or natural resources, where governments are also doing bad things to their people and bombing them to Kingdom Come to point out that killing people is bad.)
 
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He is mushy, and seems to have no core principles beyond 'fiscal conservatism', that I was able to reason from.

I might have been more supportive of him if I really thought he cared a lot about fiscal conservatism. But it seemed to me like all he ever wanted to talk about was how great abortion and gay marriage are.
 
More like because nitpicking a very vague remark from 2 years ago and using it as a reason not to vote against him despite him agreeing with you on 99% of the issues including the most important pressing ones.

This ship has sailed. What's there to debate?

I took a different approach. I didn't vote. I'm still proud of that decision. I tried to persuade others to join me in that with posts here and in a letter to the editor in my local paper. But obviously a lot of people disagreed with me (although far more Americans voted for nobody than anybody). It's no skin off my back.
 
He is mushy, and seems to have no core principles beyond 'fiscal conservatism', that I was able to reason from. He has a cost benefit analysis for everything which is sort of 'as much as the other side will let me get away with without screaming too much' which of necessity always drops the crucial issues if the establishment screams too much. He doesn't seem to have an interest in sovereignty, which as government becomes more and more 'international' and removed from the dictates of individual citizens is a bad posture to have as president, imho. He was for NAFTA for example, then when running for president after it was unpopular partially retracted that, etc. Clearly, he is not a strict Constitutionalist. He believes in 'compassionate war' (not the right term, but going places with rich tactical or natural resources, where governments are also doing bad things to their people and bombing them to Kingdom Come to point out that killing people is bad.)

This is another thing I saw, people criticizing him for a cost-benefit analysis. Why is that a bad thing, it's just common sense, something you do before evaluating any situation that will always end up siding with liberty.

I don't agree with him on humanitarian wars, but that's major nitpicking and there is a distinct difference between GJ style humanitarian war and your typical humanitarian war. He would be doing it through the congress with a declaration for genuine humanitarian reasons, not to overthrow a government a few people at the top of the food chain don't like, like in Libya or Syria which he opposed.

I don't know how you can say he doesn't have core principles beyond fiscal conservatism because he has always shown to have strong core principles on free market education and health care, civil liberties, 2nd amendment and drug policy and to a lesser extent foreign policy and I say that because he didn't talk much about that compared to the other issues as governor as it was a national issue but he was against Iraq from the start, against Afghanistan, Iran, Syria, Libya, drone strikes and wants war through the congress with a declaration so I really can't understand how you can have beef with his foreign policy unless you're nitpicking, he is better than 99.999999% of all US politicians in that area.

He isn't as strict a constitutionalist or as principled as Ron, but he's still very constitutional and principled especially compared to every other politician. This is the problem - people act hostile towards someone who goes around the country speaking for the cause of liberty because he isn't as perfect as Ron.

Gary Johnson should be considered a hero by the movement and it's really sad that he not only isn't considered a hero but gets shit on by people here and called things like "Scary Johnson" and is met with a complete lack of enthusiasm. The guy is rich - he didn't have to run for governor twice or form the Our America Initiative in 2009 and travel across 30 states, speaking at over 150 events about the ideas of the liberty movement or go all across the country campaigning for the ideas of the liberty movement when he ran for president in 2012 but he did it because he cares about the exact same things we care about.
 
This ship has sailed. What's there to debate?

I took a different approach. I didn't vote. I'm still proud of that decision. I tried to persuade others to join me in that with posts here and in a letter to the editor in my local paper. But obviously a lot of people disagreed with me (although far more Americans voted for nobody than anybody). It's no skin off my back.

It's just having a discussion about this like any other topic on this forum. Why didn't you vote when there was someone on the ballot who agreed with you on almost everything?
 
Gary Johnson should be considered a hero by the movement

He was. He even spoke at the Rally for the Republic. People here actively tried to draft him to run for a US Senate seat that he would have had a good chance of winning.

He pursued other plans.
 
I don't think Gary understand the insidious nature of the Federal Reserve system.

Well considering he wanted to audit it and later released ads calling for ending the federal reserve, that's something that deserves praise, not criticism for not being as good as Ron Paul on the issue of the federal reserve.
 
He was. He even spoke at the Rally for the Republic. People here actively tried to draft him to run for a US Senate seat that he would have had a good chance of winning.

He pursued other plans.

And yet he's still done 10000 times more for the cause of liberty than anyone here. He doesn't owe it to us to run for a senate seat, he doesn't owe it to us to do any of the stuff he's already done, people should be grateful for what he's done instead of hostile and unappreciative.

I mean this is really not so much about Johnson, it's about a fundamental problem with the movement - people being too perfectionist and refusing to vote for anything less than the spitting image of Ron Paul. It's hurt the movement already and it will hurt it even more if people continue to think that way.
 
it's about a fundamental problem with the movement - people being too perfectionist and refusing to vote for anything less than the spitting image of Ron Paul. It's hurt the movement already and it will hurt it even more if people continue to think that way.

I agree that that problem exists. But I don't see how that has anything to do with voting for the LP.
 
I did a cost-benefit analysis.

Cost

- One less vote for someone who agrees with me on almost everything
- Higher percentage of the vote going to an establishment candidate

Benefit

???

Even a write in for Ron Paul makes more sense than not voting.
 
I don't see how.

Cost: something
Benefit: nothing

How does voting GJ or Ron Paul cost the movement? And saying there is no benefit to it is saying voting is pointless which defeat the entire purpose of the grassroots in the first place.
 
How does voting GJ or Ron Paul cost the movement?

It's not the movement that votes. It's individuals. The cost of voting is something, such as time, and the risk of getting hit by a car on the way to the polling place. The benefit is nothing.

If you want to talk about affecting the percentages of the election but not the outcome, then the most important percentage we should help is the percentage of people who voted for nobody.
 
And since you mentioned writing in Ron Paul, what's the difference between doing that and voting third party?
 
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