Why aren't we on the side of the union protesters?

[FrankRep]

I'm not advocating the killing of unions.

Maybe you're not, but Walker is.

That's a lie. Gov. Walker and Wisconsin aren't "killing" the public sector Unions. They are just removing their "collective bargaining" power.

 

[Sentient Void]

I mean, eliminating collective bargaining rights from a private organization is inherently a big government action.

Eliminating collective bargaining 'rights' (???) for public unions is about as 'big government' as the constitution is 'big government' in (attempting) to restrict the growth of government and chaining it down (though it has clearly failed in that endeavor).

Logic fail.

 

[AuH20]

Maybe you're not, but Walker is.

Walker is trying to avert job layoffs, which is why he attempted to circumvent the CBA protocol. He should have simply carried on with business as usual and let nature take it's course. Districts in turn would have then terminated teachers.

 

[Ninja Homer]

Wisconsin teachers are the employees of Wisconsin tax payers. Wisconsin tax payers made an executive decision to bust the teachers unions by electing politicians to do it. Why are you against Wisconsin tax payers?

Public school teachers get paid 50% more than private school teachers, on average, and that's not including the hefty compensation that public teachers get. Private schools provide a better education for less money. "Poor underpaid school teachers" is a myth... public school teachers are overpaid.

 

[madfoot]

Ok, you keep hiring goons to come steal my property to pay for something I have no interest in supporting. That's very moral of you.

Oh, hey, you're not begging the question or anything.

 

[Ninja Homer]

Read this: http://www.educationnews.org/ed_reports/education_organizations/108345.html

 

[madfoot]

Madfoot for the love of Mike, and Pete, respond to my point that I posted and that was reposted by another member. It addresses this post you made.

I don't think the government has the right to infringe the free association of workers. That's my response. :/

 

[madfoot]

That's a lie. Gov. Walker and Wisconsin aren't "killing" the public sector Unions. They are just removing their "collective bargaining" power.

Obama isn't "killing" the free market, he's just removing our "free choice" power.

 

[unklejman]

I don't think the government has the right to infringe the free association of workers. That's my response. :/

This doesn't address the fact that they are paid by taxpayers.

 

[libertybrewcity]

the teachers and other public workers ARE the government. Anything that can be done to restrain them/it should be done immediately. In this case, limiting the power of their method of taking more taxpayer dollars. The union is like a "tax" in a way on the people.

 

[madfoot]

Walker is trying to avert job layoffs, which is why he attempted to circumvent the CBA protocol. He should have simply carried on with business as usual and let nature take it's course. Districts in turn would have then terminated teachers.

I think that's why people are assuming an ulterior motive behind Walker's actions. I would have no problem with individual districts laying off teachers or cutting programs to make ends meet.

 

[FrankRep]

Obama isn't "killing" the free market, he's just removing our "free choice" power.

Troll.

 

[unklejman]

I think that's why people are assuming an ulterior motive behind Walker's actions. I would have no problem with individual districts laying off teachers or cutting programs to make ends meet.

Ulterior motive or not, public unions are a conflict of interest. You can't deny that with logic.

 

[madfoot]

the teachers and other public workers ARE the government. Anything that can be done to restrain them/it should be done immediately. In this case, limiting the power of their method of taking more taxpayer dollars. The union is like a "tax" in a way on the people.

Yeah, damn big government teachers, janitors, and garbage men, pushing everybody around. Good thing the governor and state police are there to look out for the common man.

 

[AuH20]

I think that's why people are assuming an ulterior motive behind Walker's actions. I would have no problem with individual districts laying off teachers or cutting programs to make ends meet.

I don't think Walker is acting out his innermost philosophical compulsions whatever that may be. I think he's simply looking to get re-elected in a tumultuous political climate. And when the underwater districts and municipalities are finally forced to make draconian cuts in order to meet the bottom line, Walker is ultimately going to be held responsible. Heavy hangs the head that wears the crown. An executive of a state bears an incredible burden for both the good and the bad.

 

[madfoot]

Troll.

Hint: that was sarcasm.

 

[Flash]

See, this is the part that's so bizarre to me. Teachers aren't fat cats, getting paid for doing nothing. They're teachers. They teach our children, and look at how much respect they're getting for that.

That's not true. Teachers are just doing a job, like anyone else. I did originally have mixed feelings about the Wisconsin protests, but now I'm pretty much against it. This is not to say I condemn libertarians protesting alongside of teachers and offering a free market-friendly solution. If I lived in Wisconsin, this would be a strategic opportunity to promote libertarianism. But I doubt you'll convince teachers that their jobs should be left unto the market. Being on the payroll of local or federal government always jeopardizes one's principles. Which applies to elected officials as well.

Libertarian Socialists are saying we should support these people just for the sake of supporting the workers. Where do we draw the line? If a state legislature attempted to make it legal for a private mail delivery company to compete with the Post Office by delivering first-class mail, should we side with postal workers who are afraid of a market alternative? After all they're apart of the middle class. Would it be immoral to oppose cutting the funding for your local fire department? You'll be hurting the firemen but could allow for a free market alternative. I'm not really convinced of this pro-worker position, even though I believe a free market would benefit workers more than anything.

Personally, I had a miserable time in both Public & Private (I use that term loosely) schools. I would assume in a totally free market absent from rent & taxation, where large amounts of one's wealthy isn't stolen from them, there would be so much wealth that people could afford to home school. The parasitic class (corporations, government) doesn't WANT children homeschooled for a reason. Conspiracy theories aren't normally something I subscribe to but there's such an unbelievable amount of disdain for the homeschool movement. Either make your kid go to public school or send them to a private school owned by some capitalist , any other alternative is kooky. WTF!?!

Right now I'm looking into a type of homeschooling called 'unschooling.' Currently it's the most non-violent type of homeschooling but I'm not totally convinced it's practical. But we need SOMETHING different than what we have. And if we're not principled in our stance then we'll NEVER achieve what we want.

 

[madfoot]

I don't think Walker is acting out his innermost philosophical compulsions whatever that may be. I think he's simply looking to get re-elected in a tumultuous political climate. And when the underwater districts and municipalities are finally forced to make draconian cuts in order to meet the bottom line, Walker is ultimately going to be held responsible. Heavy hangs the head that wears the crown. An executive of a state bears an incredible burden for both good and bad.

To be honest, I have trouble believing this isn't political in nature myself. Did you hear about the "prank call" between Walker and someone pretending to be David Koch?

 

[Brian4Liberty]

The current line parroted on Faux News is that we can't place a cap on Wall Street paychecks because that would be unfair. But as long as Wall Street gets government money, we should be calling them out on their hypocrisy. If they want to distort what libertarianism means, let's not make their jobs easier.

Somebody watched the Daily Show last night...at the end he really pwned Tracy Byrne(sp?) from Fox Business ...

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/t...-richer-and-poorer---teachers-and-wall-street

 

[AuH20]

Collective Bargaining in the Public Sector explained:



The 1:21 mark sums up the huge problem we face.