Why aren't more people libertarians?

[jmdrake]

+rep. Worth the wait. Especially this part. winning an argument is not the same thing as winning a supporter.

It has nothing to do with people, already struggling to make ends meet, being deprived of the luxury of carrying on discussions (or researching) like this, eh? In that respect, it actually benefits those in power to keep making things worse, so that the populace remains ignorant. There's no time to figure out how to make things better for yourself (let alone, humanity) if you're working 2-3 jobs and spend your spare time eating and/or sleeping (both basic necessities for survival).

This actually brings up an interesting point; these are the people who need help the most, but are least likely to hear the message (due to the lack of spare time). How do we get the message across to these individuals? But, I digress.

The only reason I'm writing this is that you seem demoralized and/or frustrated. I've felt like posting rants similar to yours before, but refrained because negativity is contagious. Just as you felt the need to cross-post, I feel the need to post this, because I think more people need to hear it; especially with the "We must take action!" rhetoric I've been seeing in a few places:

Isn't taxation just a form of modern-day slavery? Slavery, at the time before the Civil War, was a necessary evil. Do you think it would have still existed, as technology became more advanced? I don't. The "necessary" bit would become smaller and smaller, until eventually, slavery is just evil. I think the same would/will eventually happen with taxation and (big) government.

I propose we just wait it out. By setting a good example, as Paul has done himself, you become the light that guides the others. The shittier things get, the brighter your ideas become. It's a battle of perception, and this defeatist "poor us!" (porous!) mentality does NOT help the cause. Inform, sure, but most won't believe or understand you until they experience it themselves.


Take consolation in the fact that big government is its own biggest threat, not us. What's that old saying...?

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend."

Wait...what? So...

Bah! Fuck it!



Do they? Check out Robin Koerner's article "Love and Sales: The Thankless Art of Political Persuasion" if you haven't already:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robin-koerner/love-and-sales-the-thankl_b_1376615.html



Wow. This post ended up being much longer than I initially intended. If nothing else, maybe it can be used as a sleep-aid? If you legitimately reached the bottom, congratulations! Level up! Hai faive!

 

[Root]

Libertarians don't give people stuff.

 

[Keith and stuff]

The vast majority of people are very much against freedom.

 

[Czolgosz]

Are libertarians made, or born?

 

[COpatriot]

Bill Maher and Glenn Beck are libertarians. Maybe there's more of them than we realize.

 

[Proph]

+rep. Worth the wait. Especially this part. winning an argument is not the same thing as winning a supporter.

I wish I could take credit for it. It was a quote from the article. I went back and edited it to reflect the author's name, instead of none at all (to avoid future confusion). The italics were all him, as well. At least I can take credit in the recycling of it or showing it to new people, eh?

Check out his other writings, if you have time. I can't remember reading an article of his that I didn't like.

Might as well quote more from the article, for those too lazy to read. There's just so many good points!

As in sales, so in all of life: Seek first to understand -- and only then to be understood. This is an idiom that actually makes your life easier, because people will always tell you how they can be persuaded if only you listen for long enough to let them.

The fundamental, psychological truth here is quite simple: No one cares what you think; they only care what they think. But if they respect you -- and only if they respect you -- will they let your thinking affect theirs.

Never let your ego get in the way of your objective: peace and freedom for all...

...or whatever the hell your objective is.

 

[specsaregood]

Do you really think some CEO wants to compete on merit and not use the courts against his competitor?

yes, the vast majority.

 

[Feeding the Abscess]

Even if you explain it well, they will nod their head in agreement, say "oh yes I agree completely", then 2 seconds later "oh look a squirrel!" and they forgot everything you just said.

They don't want to understand it. They will ignore you as best as they can, and if they accidentally start to make sense of what you're saying, and they start to see their chains, their instant reaction is to either get offended or change the subject.

This. I get people hating on Obama when I post articles about his warmongering, and they're fucking Romney supporters.

It's like, "god damn, really? Are you that dense?"

 

[LibertyEagle]

It's like, "god damn, really? Are you that dense?"

Yes, yes, many are.

 

[driller80545]

The vast majority of people in this country think that they are free. To question this idea is not in vogue at the present time. Libertarians are viewed as disgruntled.

 

[DamianTV]

Libertarianism is always seen as this strange or crazy idea. MY parents even call it anti-social. Why do people feel the need to attack libertarianism? what exactly about is flawed. I want to know what libertarians think about it.

Libertarians are the new Atheists. Its cool to hate them.

Actually, given the choice between what is right and what is easy, an alarming number of people choose what is easy.

 

[alucard13mmfmj]

cause they nominate people like bob barr.

 

[idiom]

Libertarianism is always seen as this strange or crazy idea. MY parents even call it anti-social. Why do people feel the need to attack libertarianism? what exactly about is flawed. I want to know what libertarians think about it.

Hang around libertarians a bit longer. Its not exactly an undeserved reputation.

I mean the even some of the leading lights of the movement thought Race baiting might be a good idea.

Communism is an evil vicious philosophy in practice but its always promoted as stopping tyrants and helping the poor.

Libertarianism is a truly moral philosophy, but libertarians always say things like keep out of my pockets and get off my lawn.

We are largely elitist dicks.

I mean read the comments sections of any article attacking Ron Paul. Lots of nice reasoned comments but tonnes and tonnes or vitriol and diatribes and flat out crazy ranting.

 

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

I don't care about party politics. Ron Paul was our guy and I supported him, and his message which is the message of those who founded the country. I got invited a constitution party event and right on the brochure it talked negative about immigrants and gay marriage. Scapegoating our problems to immigrants getting 3 dollars an hour isn't going to solve them, nor hating on gays. No leftists are going to be attracted by that rhetoric.

 

[jmdrake]

I figured you were quoting someone. It's still worth a +rep. Sharing insightful information is often as good as coming up with it yourself. I know I need to internalize that. It's so easy to focus on winning the argument.

I wish I could take credit for it. It was a quote from the article. I went back and edited it to reflect the author's name, instead of none at all (to avoid future confusion). The italics were all him, as well. At least I can take credit in the recycling of it or showing it to new people, eh?

Check out his other writings, if you have time. I can't remember reading an article of his that I didn't like.

Might as well quote more from the article, for those too lazy to read. There's just so many good points!



Never let your ego get in the way of your objective: peace and freedom for all...

...or whatever the hell your objective is.

 

[Travlyr]

Do you really think the elderly want their monthly shakedown of the young to stop?
Do you really think 55 year old retired cops want their pensions to stop?
Do you really think some CEO wants to compete on merit and not use the courts against his competitor?

I think some people understand what is going on, but most people don't have a clue because sound monetary principles are not taught. The CEO may know exactly what he is doing. The retired pensioners probably don't understand what is going on and neither do the elderly. They look at it as if they paid their dues and do not look at it as a monthly shakedown of the young. They believe they have earned their position. That is a misunderstanding of what is going on.

More importantly, many young people are buying into doing away with government as the solution to their problems. They see government as their enemy rather than understanding the proper role of government. That is a misunderstanding of how to achieve liberty.

Ron Paul talks about the virtues of sound money all the time. He also talks about obeying the constitution. While most people see Ron Paul as the champion of liberty, they do not hear his message of being the champion of the constitution. His message is misunderstood.

So I see most people in America as being misinformed, intentionally, rather than being informed and understanding their world. They are propagandized in school, media, Hollywood, their churches, and online.

That is why I wrote that I did not buy AF's line, "But here's the fundamental problem: people understand, they understand perfectly what is going on, for the most part."

I think most people misunderstand rather than understand.

 

[CaptLouAlbano]

Personally, I think most people are libertarian in a general sense. They want a limited government particularly at the federal level. Where libertarians have a problem, is that the ideology, when taken to its natural conclusions is incompatible in the real world. Particularly because we are not a moral society. Libertarians lose the argument when the issues get closer to home. Libertarians can convince someone that their principles will work at the federal and even the state level, but when you get to local issues (zoning, schools, etc) you lose most people. Most people don't want a whorehouse opening up next door to their home. Most people don't want a heroin store opening up next to a school. These are the issues where ideological purists falter because their adherence to libertarian purity can cloud their ability to realize that people coming together to live in a community have the right to create a government to their liking to ensure that their community functions as they desire it to.

 

[EBounding]

Why aren't more people libertarians? I think the most simple answer is because people like to feel safe. People feel safe with the current system and politicians. And unfortunately I don't think people are going to run towards liberty when things get really bad. They're going to want a tyrant who will "fix the problem" as fast as possible.

 

[Philhelm]

I don't think that I've ever met a stupid libertarian. Draw your own conclusion.

 

[jcannon98188]

I have come to the conclusion that people don't want to be free. To be free means that you have to take responsibility for your mistakes. Freedom means that they can no longer just exist they have to actively live (v).