Why Anarcho Capitalism is impossible

An established anarchist society wouldn't be conquered by tanks and an invasion of troops. It would be conquered by a culture of dependency; kind of like what's happening/has happened to the US.

Is there anything that would stop a foreign state from setting up shop in an anarcho population? If a foreign state wanted to conquer an "anarchist region", they could take the money they'd use for weapons and instead offer cheap/free goods and services to the population. As the anarchists get more accustomed to being dependent on these goods, then the State can roll in and control the region since there'll be little resistance. Or like others have mentioned, this would just happen from within.

That's why I don't think a large anarchist society is feasible; it assumes that everyone's #1 priority is freedom but human history proves that's not the case. Most people's #1 priority is to be comfortable.
 
An established anarchist society wouldn't be conquered by tanks and an invasion of troops. It would be conquered by a culture of dependency; kind of like what's happening/has happened to the US.

Is there anything that would stop a foreign state from setting up shop in an anarcho population? If a foreign state wanted to conquer an "anarchist region", they could take the money they'd use for weapons and instead offer cheap/free goods and services to the population. As the anarchists get more accustomed to being dependent on these goods, then the State can roll in and control the region since there'll be little resistance. Or like others have mentioned, this would just happen from within.

That's why I don't think a large anarchist society is feasible; it assumes that everyone's #1 priority is freedom but human history proves that's not the case. Most people's #1 priority is to be comfortable.
The problem with that argument is that anarcho capitalists aren't pacifists. They, in my experience, like being armed and favor voluntary association with protection agencies. ("DROs" as Molyneux calls them)
 
You can't just create a szenario where a giant military super power attacks a tiny anarcho-capitalistic town and claim that this is the ultimate invalidation of a politcal philosophy.

You would have to show how that same tiny town would do any better if it were controlled by a government (and thus likely less prosperous). It would still be crushed the same way.

So your real argument is that countries with little power and territory are not sustainable and ideally states should be as big as possible to protect it's citizens from more powerful states. And I believe that is a bunch of BS. I'd be willing to bet that historically smaller countries are less likely to be involved in wars than bigger ones, btw.
 
An established anarchist society wouldn't be conquered by tanks and an invasion of troops. It would be conquered by a culture of dependency; kind of like what's happening/has happened to the US.

Is there anything that would stop a foreign state from setting up shop in an anarcho population? If a foreign state wanted to conquer an "anarchist region", they could take the money they'd use for weapons and instead offer cheap/free goods and services to the population. As the anarchists get more accustomed to being dependent on these goods, then the State can roll in and control the region since there'll be little resistance. Or like others have mentioned, this would just happen from within.

That's why I don't think a large anarchist society is feasible; it assumes that everyone's #1 priority is freedom but human history proves that's not the case. Most people's #1 priority is to be comfortable.

It's a cultural thing. That's why education is the most important task. And it will always stay that way.
 
Security, Shelter, Stomach, Sex are the base priorities for humanity. Freedom is such a high order concept it's easily dispensed with when devoid of the others.
 
Security, Shelter, Stomach, Sex are the base priorities for humanity. Freedom is such a high order concept it's easily dispensed with when devoid of the others.

Yeah but freedom is the best tool to get the largest number of people security, shelter, stomach and sex. It's not only an ends but also a means to all other ends. That's why people need to be educated on it.

I never realized why some people seem to believe liberty is such an intuitive concept. Imho it's the most counter-intuitive idea on the planet that not intervening could lead to desired results in a better way than intervening and it takes a huge amount of intellectual work to come to that conclusion.
 
Yeah but freedom is the best tool to get the largest number of people security, shelter, stomach and sex. It's not only an ends but also a means to all other ends. That's why people need to be educated on it.

I never realized why some people seem to believe liberty is such an intuitive concept. Imho it's the most counter-intuitive idea on the planet that not intervening could lead to desired results in a better way than intervening and it takes a huge amount of intellectual work to come to that conclusion.
Try holding class when people are starving or fearing for their life. People will take care of their immediate needs before sitting down for an educational lesson. That's if you can even convince them to submit to this proposed lesson. Then you admit (correctly) that this educational lesson isn't easily intellectually digestible; it's counter-intuitive. You really have your work cut out for you.
 
You can't just create a szenario where a giant military super power attacks a tiny anarcho-capitalistic town and claim that this is the ultimate invalidation of a politcal philosophy.

You would have to show how that same tiny town would do any better if it were controlled by a government (and thus likely less prosperous). It would still be crushed the same way.

So your real argument is that countries with little power and territory are not sustainable and ideally states should be as big as possible to protect it's citizens from more powerful states. And I believe that is a bunch of BS. I'd be willing to bet that historically smaller countries are less likely to be involved in wars than bigger ones, btw.

Great point. Thanks.
 
Yeah but freedom is the best tool to get the largest number of people security, shelter, stomach and sex. It's not only an ends but also a means to all other ends. That's why people need to be educated on it.

I never realized why some people seem to believe liberty is such an intuitive concept. Imho it's the most counter-intuitive idea on the planet that not intervening could lead to desired results in a better way than intervening and it takes a huge amount of intellectual work to come to that conclusion.

Agreed.

I don't think any of us advocate a hap-hazard, thoughtless statelessness, but rather a conscientious, evolved decision to live as free people. It would only take just enough of the population - whatever that percentage may be - to reject the state. Of course, there will always be people who advocate physical and coercive violence in the name of some perceived "greater good", just as there are today, and just as there are murderers and thieves in the world today. Mankind has evolved to the point that most recognize that physical violence is unproductive, impractical, but most importantly immoral. There is no reason to believe that at some point mankind won't evolve to recogize that the wholesale physical and coercive violence of the state is just as unproductive, impractical and most importantly immoral.
 
Try holding class when people are starving or fearing for their life. People will take care of their immediate needs before sitting down for an educational lesson. That's if you can even convince them to submit to this proposed lesson. Then you admit (correctly) that this educational lesson isn't easily intellectually digestible; it's counter-intuitive. You really have your work cut out for you.

I don't believe it's possible to go from poverty and starvation to anarcho-capitalism, nor that it would necessarily be a good move. Imo it can only work as a long-term approach to patiently phase out all government while technological progress and economic prosperity rise steadily to compliment it.
 
:thumbs:

Very often they're impressed into duty, or are doing so as a last resort. They have very little motivation. They're often very poorly commanded.

Generally speaking, history shows that such armies aren't good for much of anything, except doing away with huge numbers of human beings.

I gave three example of dumb ass people, with these being the Texas Army, the Texas Rangers, and the Comanche Indians, kicking the holy shit out of far superior numbers of warriors or of soldiers being in professional armies.
 
Why police? They're not constitutional and are a relatively new innovation.

In understanding the Constitution, why on earth would one ever ask a lawyer? The business of lawyering didn't come into play until the advent of the two-party system. No one on the Supreme Court should be a lawyer. The president shouldn't be a lawyer. No one in Congress should be a lawyer. A lawyer should be the very last person to ask a question regarding why these United States are great.
 
The more I see these posts pop up, dripping with condescension, but saying nothing at all, the more I'm convinced the public schools are no longer the least bit interested in teaching critical thinking skills. Indeed, just the opposite--they seem to teach only condescension. In fact, I'd say they use condescension as a weapon to kill any critical thinking skills in the womb. What's that you're doing there, little Johnny? Do I detect an attempt at critical thinking? Well, now. Class, little Johnny is trying to think critically. Let's all laugh at him now.

Now children, we're going to teach you corporate socialism (but we do not say fascism), imperialism and fiat money. None of this stuff has a toe to stand on historically, much less a whole leg. But we're going to teach you to sneer the naysayers into silence, so don't worry about it...

The more of these I see, the more patient I am with people who approach us in humility--even if they could search the forum before they ask their question.
 
Last edited:
You would have to show how that same tiny town would do any better if it were controlled by a government

And this argument transfers over to every other sticking point.

How will we school our children? Show me how what we have right now is so wonderful.
How will we build roads? Show me how what we have right now isn't falling to pieces and sucking hours out of our lives.
How will we have police? Show me how what we have right now isn't intentionally burning people to death live on national TV.

Of course an hour's objective thought on these three matters would show that these aren't even necessarily desirable to have in society. But you don't need to go as far as doubting their necessity to realize that the state's shit actually does stink.
 
None of this stuff has a toe to stand on historically

Our 'betters' have it all figured out. Why do you fuss and worry about things like this?

I find your premise frequently bearing out when I try to discuss how money works. It's a different economy, and a different world now, they say. Asset-based currencies would be ruinous, they say. They cite the alchemists, like Krugman, who they themselves don't understand, nor could, because he is in fact incomprehensible. The whole of modern human society is one great big Rube Goldberg machine, of which the architects are at a loss to both control and manipulate. It's too intimidating for most people to spend too much time thinking about, so - as they have been taught - they defer to their 'betters', and run off to be a cog in the machine.

The fact is, we're not living in reality. Nothing short of a complete paradigm shift among the mass of humanity is required to un-fuck this situation. This, incidentally, is why my focus and in my opinion our only true hope is to continue the educational efforts that Ron really brought to our social discourse.
 
the more I'm convinced the public schools are no longer the least bit interested in teaching critical thinking skills.

I went to public indoctrination camps from grades 8-12 in Fairfax County, VA. The Fairfax County Public School system was rated one of the top 25 school systems in the US back then - and that was before the explosion of property prices, before the explosion of public sector jobs, and generally before the area became one of the wealthiest areas per capita in the world.

I very clearly remember a pattern when discussing poetry or any literature which employed symbolism. The exercise went like this:
"Ok, so what do you all think that passage means?"
(answers, answers, answers)
"Ok, great answers. Let me go ahead and crush all of them by stating that what the Teacher's Edition has in it is absolute fact. You now feel as if you have participated and I have made you all feel stupid for it, because I knew the answer all along and was just seeing if you could guess. The official take-away from this exercise is that your efforts are probably meaningless, unless someone in authority has supplied the answer, and that you probably shouldn't try."
 
Don't they have the Afghan military defending them in some way? Explain the situation to me.

Regardless, that's a tiny city. Say China or the US wanted it - they could easily get it. It's just more trouble than it's worth so they don't bother. Now say you have a country as big and resource rich as the US and it's an anarcho capitalist state - they're fucked.

Dismiss it before you understand it. Raise objections that are outlined and answered in the foundation documents.

(1) There would be no "state". Your example would be analogous to China being able to claim rule over all of the Western Hemisphere if Mexico City fell to them. There is no state currently claiming all of the Western Hemisphere, so such a claim is ridiculous. In an anarcho-capitalist society an invader would similarly not be able to conquer any one city to take over - they would have to go to each defense agency, to each individual, to each blade of grass with a rifle behind it. Only then could they claim the right to rule the people or property of that AnCap land.

(2) Free trade and the division of labor is WAY more profitable than invading.
 
The OP's argument is based on two fallacies (at least) that, in one form or another, underlie most statist thinking:

1. The only way to protect your freedom from hypothetical aggression is to surrender your freedom to an agressive entity you create yourself. You must abandon freedom to save it.

2. Humans are too stupid, incompetent, and predatory to be left to manage their own affairs and so must be forcefully governed by an entity comprised of the same stupid, incompetent, and predatory race of beings.
 
I converted someone to anarcho-capitalism with this, so you might find it useful. It was a response to the free rider problem but it is all about national defense.

Wesker1982 said:
So the problem with free riders is supposedly security will be under produced because of it, right? Even if there are free riders in some areas, I don't think it follows that security would be under produced. Like, even if in NYC or Las Vegas, no citizens specifically buy national defense protection, I think with all of the money invested that national defense would be provided by anyone (shareholders etc) who owns any expensive property (through insurance). You could multiply this scenario thousands of times throughout the USA because of all the private investment in various cities. Once you multiply this many times, all of the sudden an invading army would find it hard to make a lot of progress. What are they gonna do, invade a potato farm in Idaho? Naaa, their targets are gonna be valuable, so it follows that the cities are the only ones who even need it and since people invest there, it will be provided.

Another solution is to "eternalize the externalities". What I mean is that I don't see why defense companies or whatever could not publicize a list of people who do not have defense. Just be like, "yo, free attacks on these people, they dunnn have security!"

Also, on people free riding on local security, in the over all production of security I don't think it matters. Anyone who owns a road or business will provide security, or else they would lose business to safer places. If an area is so safe that security isn't really needed, then the underproduction obviously is not a problem. With neighborhood protection too I see contracts emerging between landlords where either they themselves contractually agree to require tenets to buy security or the landlords buy security as part of home insurance. Or non-landlord owners might join neighborhood associations or whatever, and if someone refuses to buy security, it would be pretty easy to let all the criminals know that certain houses have no protection. But again, even if someone has no subscription, I don't see why they still couldn't call for help and just get charged a higher price or whatever. The amount of security provided would actually be in proportion to crime rates. Say that it is so nice somewhere that no one buys subscriptions, but relies on just emergency help. Well, the police force will be small, as it should be!

Defense and insurance companies also having a lot of money at risk with customers and their own capital (buildings, equipment, etc.) would have an incentive to contractually agree to group up in case of an invasion. I mean, think if you owned some stuff or a company, and you saw some army invading 300 miles to the south of you, then 250 miles, then 200, then 100, getting closer to you each time. I think it is obvious that even companies hundreds of miles away would view an attack on their neighbors as a potential threat. So I think large areas would be covered just by various investors, insurance agencies, and defense agencies agreeing to help each other out for their own good.

Also, when we think of war right now, we imagine how ridiculously expensive it is, well...because IT IS. The insane amount of money spent by the US military is more than the whole world's defense budget COMBINED. What I am getting at here is that DEFENSE spending would be extremely cheap compared to the costs we imagine with war now. Not only is the US maintaining an empire, but the US government is terrible at allocating resources (i.e. they spend a shit load of money without concern). With private defense, it will be efficient and dirt cheap compared to government military. I could see all the major cities defended against invasion for CHUMP CHANGE. What this means is that I think with how cheap it would be, people mooching in itself would not be a big concern. Some people are super cheap sure, but I think most people would pay an extra $10 a month (assuming companies didn't already cover 100%) vs facing the social pressure or even a black list of people declared "free to attack". Defense is SUPER cheap compared to offense, I think even a small town (like my home town of 9k ppl) could afford adequate defense, although it probably would not need "national" defense, but that is impossible to decide, which is exactly why the market is the best way to find out lol!

The final and more romantic answer is guerrilla warfare. This can't be underestimated. Look at history, as in Vietnam, Afghanistan (Soviets and the U.S.), The American Revolution, etc. All of these are cases where average citizens with rifles take on the world super power. I don't see why a libertarian society would be any less motivated than any of the cases mentioned above. With everything said about about insurance etc. providing defense, I think guerrilla warfare alone could defend against an invasion. I am not saying I think it would be the only defense, but I think it alone could do the job. So adding this on top of everything above, the insurance and defense agencies etc., I think invading a free society looks like a giant headache to any potential invaders. Why not just invade some poor country with a government, take out their nation's capitol, and be done? Compare invading a poor country where you only have to take out one city ( to take over their government) to everything I have said here and I think there is a strong case that it would be cheaper and safer to just invade somewhere else.
 
Last edited:
It's a cultural thing. That's why education is the most important task. And it will always stay that way.

I agree. We have to convince people that freedom will ultimately make you the most comfortable and happy.
 
Back
Top