Who disagrees with Paul that life beings at conception?

Response to the "leave it up to the states" argument from my dad:

"But then you'll have some states pass laws against abortions and poor women in those states who can't afford to travel to other states will have illegal abortions which will result in their deaths and other complications."
 
Reason, not rationalization, is the proper use of the intellect.

However, it is entirely dependent on its mother, who has the perfect right to evict the perceived trespasser at any time. Just because she had sex does not mean that she has made a contract with her baby to carry it to term. To get all Rothbardian on you, how on earth can a very young fetus enter into a legally-enforceable contract?

By your logic, then, if I tell someone e can come into my house, then say e is trespassing and kill em, it's not a problem? Just because I voluntarily did something that was at least likely to result in someone besides myself being inside my house, does not mean I made a contract to treat em like a guest? As for a legally-enforceable contract, this logic would seem to apply to a child of any age as well; so apparently you would condone killing (or at least evicting) children, on the grounds that as non-adults they cannot make contracts?

This tortured "logic" is a good example why much "libertarian" discourse ends up being ridiculous. A "libertarianism" which finds such convoluted rationalizations to break agreements is not truly libertarian, and truly deserves the common confusion with "libertine" in the public mind. Freedom without responsibility is simply license. License is not freedom; it is actually slavery, if not to an external master then certainly to ones own uncontrolled and selfish impulses.

Like most other human acts, sex has consequences. An adult, when acting, considers the consequences, including the possible consequences. I always wear a helmet when riding my bicycle; I know others who do not. I do not favor helmet laws; but I also do not consider a non-helmet rider whose head gets broken a "victim". Again, women seem to want to have it both ways: they want the "rights" of adults, and full citizens, without the responsibilities. Which in itself demonstrates that they are not yet adults.

I'm not saying Dr. Paul would support this synthesis. I'm quite sure he would not. But it seems to be to be as close a compromise between the rights of both mother and baby as can be imagined.

That's just the problem, this deification of "compromise". In fact, in matters of principle there is no "compromise": either something is right, or it is wrong. "Compromise" is the hobgoblin of little minds determined to rationalize a way to what they want, regardless of principle. Take a gallon of pure spring water; pour in a thimble of urine; what do you have? A "compromise".

Funny, you'd think women might be able to understand this, given that "there is no such thing as being a little bit pregnant". But apparently many (most?) of them don't.

"The world’s black and white, good and bad, no matter what you hear. The people who say it isn’t have already chosen black." --Amos Walker
 
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Response to the "leave it up to the states" argument from my dad:

"But then you'll have some states pass laws against abortions and poor women in those states who can't afford to travel to other states will have illegal abortions which will result in their deaths and other complications."

I highly reccomend to Stick it to your DAD...His moral compass is way off...focus on the "deaths" of millions of babies! Make references to the Holocost...some Germans tried to help...others ignored it...

He's the one mentioning "Death" Pro-choice = Pro-Death...just look at the pictures
 
But I was told today by a staffer, that he wants his bill to pass, and then refuse to give states any federal funding for anything (like roads, etc.) if they allow abortions in their state. So you may not call it a ban, but it will act like one.

I don't think that staffer knew what they were talking about. I would not take this as "truth" until Paul says it himself.
 
That is what I thought too. But I was told today by a staffer, that he wants his bill to pass, and then refuse to give states any federal funding for anything (like roads, etc.) if they allow abortions in their state. So you may not call it a ban, but it will act like one.

To answer the initial question, it does not matter when life begins. We don't allow anyone to be subjugated to anyone in this society for any reason. What about an old man with Alzheimer's who can't take care of himself or he will die? Do we force any member of his family to take care of them no matter what?

Why is this pro-life argument always so anti a woman's life? Why does the zygote have more rights than the fully formed human woman? And what about the 9 year old who gets raped. Gonna force her to keep it too? Gonna send her up the river? Where do the rights of the woman come in? How come we have none.

No amount of arguments convince people either way on this subject. Speaking for myself...it become a matter of faith..how can you argue with someone's faith...apparently Ron Paul believes in a creator that is Pro-Life.
 
Ever seen the pics of the dead teenagers who got illegal abortions? I guess you don't care about them, huh?


Well, if you live in a world that has careless disregard for human life, then such things will be more likely to happen.

Perhaps, societal values should be implicated and questions asked about why killing a fetus is considered a "solution" in the first place?
 
Who disagrees with Paul that life begins at conception?

I do whole heartedly. honestly - i don't see how it could not!
 
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"But then you'll have some states pass laws against abortions and poor women in those states who can't afford to travel to other states will have illegal abortions which will result in their deaths and other complications."

Whatever happened to the even more basic problem of responsibility for poor choices....this kinda sounds like the arguments you hear for why we have to PROVIDE a welfare state (as a right)...even for illegal aliens. Its ridiculous....I remember hearing a statistic a long time ago that said abortion (funded by tax payer money to these "doctors") was the #1 form of birth control for black women in inner cities (many getting multiple abortions).....c'mon that is just INSANE.

Read Pauls books (they are free online) he discusses some of these issues and particularly of the moral bancruptcy of our populous today (which there is no way for government to "fix")...it is immoral that these people can't take care of themselves by either laziness, ignorance or apathy...I've been with a woman for 20 years and she didn't get pregnant...its not that hard.
 
Two people at his campaign today basically said the same thing.

I don't know what to tell you if you want open arms from HQ on this issue:confused: You are an asset to the campaign and I hope you stay...even I do not aggree with all of RP issues.

You have to undeerstand that Pro-Lifers take that stand as a core -belief...many consider the only issue when voting. He is a Doctor who delivered 4000 kids.

Why are you so anti- Pro Life?
 
I think it is becoming clear, at least to me, that Ron Paul is pulling one over on the pro-choice crowd with this states rights excuse. He doesn't want the states to make the decisions on their own. He wants to ban all abortions in all situations period. Using the force of the Federal Government to pressure the states into specific positions, well you might as well take away their right to choose because they won't be able to afford a choice.

So, as I was told today by a campaign member , if you are pro-choice, get out of this campaign, you don't belong here. Go support Hilary.

Don't you just love the people who "work" for this campaign?

You need to name names or report the individual to the Campaign.

I disagree that Paul is lying about his position. In fact, he is being bluntly honest.

Perhaps Paul would support a Constitutional Amendment banning Abortion, he has made his personal stance on abortion very clear. But, at least that would be the proper method to address the abortion issue unlike Roe -v- Wade.

Paul consistently says that the states should decide, he is not in the least bit ambiguous about this.
 
My core belief is liberty. I will not throw any group under the bus to get it for a few. Period.

I was there when abortions were illegal. Were you? I will die if I get pregnant. Will you? Tell me about core values. Tell me when your 9 year old daughter is raped. Tell me when you are.

If this campaign is not about liberty then what is it about? Freedom for men? Freedom for the unborn? But not freedom for women?

All you people who have been alive with this freedom have no idea what it was like when it was gone.

Let's just go back to letting the states decide about slavery too. Why not? Shouldn't it be a state's right issue?

If you are going to force out all pro-liberty folks then good luck. Oh, that is what I call pro-choice.

Apparently you all are willing to put a woman to her death is it? for not wanting to have a child. Let's just outlaw birth control and masturbation while we are at it. So many unborn out there just waiting to come into this overcrowded earth.

You have the freedom to support any argument you feel you must. You be fighting a losing battle with this campaign:)
 
We all fight with our own internal Demons. It takes true courage to acept God's mercy...He can forgive all if we let him
 
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