Whny does the Bill of Rights limit the 16th amendment?

[dude58677]

The preamble to the bill of rights states that "In order to prevent the abuse and misconstruction of power, further restrictive clauses must be added".

The ninth amendment which reads "The enumeration of certain rights shall not be construed to disparge others retained by the people." What this means is that given that the Bill of Rights are restrictive clauses of the government, the restrictive clauses listed are not the only restrictive clauses.

So the 16th amendment does give Congress the power to collect taxes from whatever source derived HOWEVER it does is prohibited under the ninth amendment to collect taxes for political gestures such as that everyone should "pay their fair share", tax for no reason, tax for unconstitutional spending, tax for unconstitutional debt, or tax for wasteful spending.

The Bill of Rights also limits the judicial branch in that upholding the following the abuse of taxing powers is also an abuse of judicial power.

 

[Truth Warrior]

Because the SCOTUS says so ......... or hasn't.

 

[Danke]

So the 16th amendment does give Congress the power to collect taxes from whatever source derived HOWEVER it does is prohibited under the ninth amendment to collect taxes for political gestures such as that everyone should "pay their fair share", tax for no reason, tax for unconstitutional spending, tax for unconstitutional debt, or tax for wasteful spending.

Can you reword that, I'm not sure what you are saying.

 

[dude58677]

Can you reword that, I'm not sure what you are saying.

political gestures such as that everyone should "pay their fair share"- This is when everyone is taxed just so everyone can chip in. Such as if the government taxed to pay for post offices only and everyone had to file a return just to pay for the post offices even though it is unnecessary.

tax for no reason- This is taxing the public and not spending it in anyway. There is a huge amount of tax revenue but none of the money is appropiated.

tax for unconstitutional spending- This is when the government taxes for programs that are not in the Constitution.

tax for unconstitutional debt- This is when the government raises taxes the public to pay for a debt that they created because they borrowed money for unconstitutional programs. The government should sleep in the mess they made.

tax for wasteful spending- This is taxing so the government could pay for 1,000 post offices in DC. Given the fact that there is a 10 trillion dollar debt shows that the government wasted the money it taxed for.

The ninth amendment prohibits the government for doing all these things. Sure Congress can tax from whatever source derived but there must be a damn good reason for it.

If the Supreme Court or any court upholds the taxing abuses I mentioned, this is an abuse of judicial power.

The ninth amendment and the preamble to the bill of rights prohibit all these government actions.


Also it should be noted that the 16th amendment never said that the bill of rights doesn't apply so even though it came after the bill of rights doesn't change anything.

 

[Truth Warrior]

"Taking the State wherever found, striking into its history at any point, one sees no way to differentiate the activities of its founders, administrators, and beneficiaries from those of a professional-criminal class." ~ Albert Jay Nock, Our Enemy, The State

 

[Acala]

whole document

The Constitution is a single document. Amendments to the Constitution, including those in the Bill of Rights, effect a change to, and become part of, the Constitution. They are not separate documents. Once an amendment is adopted, it is PART of the Constitution. And any subsequent amendment supercedes and overturns any prior inconsistent provision of the Constitution. So the 16th amendment allows the levy of an income tax without apportionment even though the Constitution as originally written prohibited unapportioned taxes. The 16th amendment also overturns any other conflicting prior provisions in the Constitution.

This is traditional statutory construction and is the only means of amending the document that makes sense.

 

[dude58677]

The Constitution is a single document. Amendments to the Constitution, including those in the Bill of Rights, effect a change to, and become part of, the Constitution. They are not separate documents. Once an amendment is adopted, it is PART of the Constitution. And any subsequent amendment supercedes and overturns any prior inconsistent provision of the Constitution. So the 16th amendment allows the levy of an income tax without apportionment even though the Constitution as originally written prohibited unapportioned taxes. The 16th amendment also overturns any other conflicting prior provisions in the Constitution.

This is traditional statutory construction and is the only means of amending the document that makes sense.

The 16th amendment doesn't say that Congress has the power to tax for no reason, tax for unconstitutional programs, tax for wasteful spending, or tax for unconstituional debt.

The 16th amendment also does NOT say that the amendment no longer applies to the Bill of Rights.

You would have to be a fool to think otherwise.

 

[dude58677]

The Constitution is a single document. Amendments to the Constitution, including those in the Bill of Rights, effect a change to, and become part of, the Constitution. They are not separate documents. Once an amendment is adopted, it is PART of the Constitution. And any subsequent amendment supercedes and overturns any prior inconsistent provision of the Constitution. So the 16th amendment allows the levy of an income tax without apportionment even though the Constitution as originally written prohibited unapportioned taxes. The 16th amendment also overturns any other conflicting prior provisions in the Constitution.

This is traditional statutory construction and is the only means of amending the document that makes sense.

Bottom line: Congress has the power to tax from whatever source derived but it must have a DAMN GOOD REASON TO DO SO.

 

[Danke]

The Constitution is a single document. Amendments to the Constitution, including those in the Bill of Rights, effect a change to, and become part of, the Constitution. They are not separate documents. Once an amendment is adopted, it is PART of the Constitution. And any subsequent amendment supercedes and overturns any prior inconsistent provision of the Constitution. So the 16th amendment allows the levy of an income tax without apportionment even though the Constitution as originally written prohibited unapportioned taxes. The 16th amendment also overturns any other conflicting prior provisions in the Constitution.

This is traditional statutory construction and is the only means of amending the document that makes sense.

There are actually both direct and indirect taxes allow in the Constitution, and neither has changed with the adoption of the 16th Amendment. Direct must follow the rules of apportionment and indirect taxes (like the income tax) must follow the rules of uniformity.

 

[dude58677]

There are actually both direct and indirect taxes allow in the Constitution, and neither has changed with the adoption of the 16th Amendment. Direct must follow the rules of apportionment and indirect taxes (like the income tax) must follow the rules of uniformity.

In addition, they can't tax for the reasons I said.

 

[Danke]

In addition, they can't tax for the reasons I said.

They can't tax for "wasteful spending." I don't know what traction that will get ya. By whose definition and where is that written?

 

[dude58677]

They can't tax for "wasteful spending." I don't know what traction that will get ya. By whose definition and where is that written?

There is a 10 trillion dollar debt. I don't see how you can call that fiscal spending and I don't see how that cannot be called objective. The people have a ninth amendment unenumerated right not to be taxed for unfiscal spending.

 

[Danke]

There is a 10 trillion dollar debt. I don't see how you can call that fiscal spending and I don't see how that cannot be called objective. The people have a ninth amendment unenumerated right not to be taxed for unfiscal spending.

You and I can agree with that. (obligations are way north of 10 trillion) But does Blacks law dictionary define wasteful spending?

 

[dude58677]

You and I can agree with that. (obligations are way north of 10 trillion) But does Blacks law dictionary define wasteful spending?

This is why the ninth amendment is so powerful because it isn't possible to define every prohibition of government that the best way to define it is with common sense. If you know it is wasteful and this is a direct result of your loss of labor, then you know it isn't right and if you know that the ninth amendment can't list every prohibition then it is safe to say that this is one of things that the ninth amendment prohibits. Common sense should tell you that.

The government is prohibited under the ninth amendment to define wasteful spending. See the beauty of the ninth amendment?

 

[Truth Warrior]

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Who Killed the Constitution?[/FONT]
Tom Woods on its stranglers.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

"Taking the State wherever found, striking into its history at any point, one sees no way to differentiate the activities of its founders, administrators, and beneficiaries from those of a professional-criminal class." ~ Albert Jay Nock, Our Enemy, The State

"[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]The government does not, indeed, waylay a man in a lonely place, spring upon him from the roadside, and, holding a pistol to his head, proceed to rifle his pockets. But the robbery is none the less a robbery on that account; and it is far more dastardly and shameful.[/FONT]" ~Lysander Spooner

"[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]the State is a coercive criminal organization that subsists by a regularized large-scale system of taxation-theft, and which gets away with it by engineering the support of the majority (not, again, of everyone) through securing an alliance with a group of opinion-moulding intellectuals whom it rewards with a share in its power and pelf." ~Murray Rothbard

[/FONT]

 

[Truth Warrior]

"[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]The government does not, indeed, waylay a man in a lonely place, spring upon him from the roadside, and, holding a pistol to his head, proceed to rifle his pockets. But the robbery is none the less a robbery on that account; and it is far more dastardly and shameful.[/FONT]" ~Lysander Spooner

"[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]the State is a coercive criminal organization that subsists by a regularized large-scale system of taxation-theft, and which gets away with it by engineering the support of the majority (not, again, of everyone) through securing an alliance with a group of opinion-moulding intellectuals whom it rewards with a share in its power and pelf." ~Murray Rothbard[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif][/FONT]

Correctamundo, grasshoppa. Well done.<IMHO>

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Correctamundo, grasshoppa. Well done.<IMHO>

Thanx, sensei. I've been studying.