Where are the LIGHT DUTY DIESEL Pickups and SUV's?

[presence]

"The diesel pickup trucks can not be shipped into the USA !!!"

VW Chairman Ferdinand Piech himself drove[in 2002] from Wolfsburg to Hamburg to join the shareholders meeting – averaging just 0.89 litres per 100 km (317 mpg) along the way [in the VW Diesel 1-Litre-Car]

VW engineers[] realized that a diesel engine was the only real option for the powertrain as only a diesel meets the maximum requirements for optimum energy utilization.

http://www.autos.ca/auto-brands/feature-vw-1-litre-car/

What America needs right now is a domestically-built pickup truck that gets 45 miles per gallon.

Ask a small business owner with a local delivery or work fleet that's been squeezed by inflated fuel costs ... a truck that pulls down 45 miles per gallon (MPG) would be heaven sent.

http://www.mpgomatic.com/45_MPG_Pickup_Truck.html

That's science fiction you say?

I've traveled all over the world. Mid sizes diesels trucks are sold everywhere except in the USA.

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.efede0b/26#MSG26



Top 5 US SUV's and Light Trucks, by Combined MPG:

32 Ford Escape SUV
22 Toyota Tacoma
21 Chevrolet Silverado
21 GMC Sierra
...I'll even throw the Mazda 5 Minivan in there at 24; it hardly counts.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/best-worst.shtml

due to changes in the U.S. regulatory and market situation[] the truck we've long been expecting isn't going to happen.

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/07/11/mahindra-gives-up-altogether-on-small-diesel-pickup-for-u-s/


Trucks That Are Bigger and Badder, but Perhaps Not Better

PLUSH The GMC Sierra Denali 2500HD can tow more than 20,000 pounds. It also has air-conditioned leather seats.



http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/14/a...er-but-perhaps-not-better.html?pagewanted=all

HEAVY-DUTY pickup trucks are the supercars of the truck world. They have more power than drivers are likely ever to exploit, and bragging rights depend on statistics that are, in practical terms, theoretical.

While you can’t buy a diesel engine in a mainstream light-duty pickup, heavy-duty pickups now offer propulsion suitable for a tandem-axle dump truck. I’m not exaggerating. Ford’s 6.7-liter Power Stroke diesel V-8 packs 400 horsepower and 800 pound-feet of torque; the base engine in a Peterbilt 348 dump truck offers a mere 260 horsepower and 660 pound feet. Does your pickup really need more power than a Peterbilt?

Now, I'm not saying there's not need for 20k towing capacity. I know how to use it. I've driven with 37k behind me; I know what that's all about.

I just don't understand why if you want a diesel in the US it has to weigh 4 tons and can't get 23 mpg.


http://www.mpgomatic.com/45_MPG_Pickup_Truck.html

Remarkably, we had a domestically-built compact pickup truck that scored 45 MPG ... twenty-five years ago ... but sadly, it slipped away ..

1981 TOYOTA 1L DIESEL TRUCK

1978 RABBIT DIESEL TRUCK (US produced)

Now when market leaders talk about "light duty diesels" its:

General Motors 4.5L light-duty diesel V8 was on track for 25 mpg combined

4.5L = light duty ??

The VW and Toyota above could tote sheets of plywood all day on 1.8; they didn't even have turbos.

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.efede0b/27#MSG27

I think most of the blame lies with the EPA and CARB. They have all but blocked the sale of mid sized diesel PU trucks and cars. You want a big fire breathing, CO2 spewing 1 ton diesel truck, No problem. You are right, a mid sized diesel truck would sell very well in the US if offered. I have waited for 10 years for just that vehicle to arrive here. Still waiting.

CARB?

WHEREAS: CARB is an unelected and unaccountable bureaucracy whose actions have killed jobs and harmed our economy.
WHEREAS: CARB has abused its power by levying millions of dollars in disproportionate fines on business owners who have not violated existing laws or who have committed only minor technical oversights.
WHEREAS: CARB has proposed or implemented policies that infringe on our right to make our own decisions and run our own lives.
WHEREAS: CARB continues to move forward with plans to mandate increased ethanol usage despite overwhelming evidence that ethanol will significantly raise fuel costs without improving the environment.
WHEREAS: CARB has promised its actions will lead to a prosperous new green economy that has failed to materialize but that have instead turned California into a national leader in high unemployment.
BE IT RESOLVED: CARB should be abolished! We need jobs and a healthy economy, not punitive and unfair regulations!

http://killcarb.org/

European emissions rules allow a diesel to emit up to 0.29 grams of nitrous oxide (NOx) per mile — which is about what the typical diesel school bus or trash truck emitted 5 years ago.

US regulations on the other hand, only allow a diesel to emit 0.07 grams of NOx per mile, making compliance a costly effort.
Smaller firms like Honda or Subaru would have to spend hundreds of millions of dollars to develop a compliant engine, for a historically small US market. So it’s tough for many of them to justify such a big investment.

http://www.practicalenvironmentalist.com/automobiles/subaru-diesel-cars-usa.htm


New Boxer Diesel Forester; Euro only

September 5, 2008 We’d been looking at pictures and static displays of Subaru’s horizontally-opposed diesel engine for several years before seeing it in the Legacy and Outback earlier this year. The engine is exceptionally compact, very light and has a low centre-of-gravity which benefits handling agility and makes best use of the all-wheel drive system. Throw in gobs of torque (the 2.0 litre version produces 258 lb ft at 1,800 rpm),
[]

Both the Forester and Impreza Boxer Diesels feature new six-speed manual gearboxes while the engine itself benefits from a new closed-type diesel particulate filter.

No other SUV can better the 44.8 mpg[] of the Forester 2.0D.

2012 Colorado; Europe


But you Mr. Land of the Free Home of the Brave... can't buy one, import one, or drive one. And you can't have one of these either:



2013 VW Amarok Pickup Truck

Fuel consumption in a combined cycle format is as low as 7.6 L/100 km (37 mpg[SUB]-imp[/SUB]; 31 mpg[SUB]-US[/SUB]) on the rear wheel drive variant to 8.1 L/100 km (35 mpg[SUB]-imp[/SUB]; 29 mpg[SUB]-US[/SUB]) on the 4Motion theoretically giving the Amarok a 1,000 km (620 mi) range before filling up for fuel.

Fine German engineering... smokes anything on US roads in terms of MPG in a pickup. But basically the same issues as:

Jeep Grand Cherokee and Jeep Wrangler, are both available with 3.0-liter diesel engines in Europe, but they are not available in the U.S. currently and would have to be adapted to meet strict and costly emission standards.

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2011/0...am-pickup-feasible-but-is-there-a-demand.html


On the other side of the globe, look at what India gets:

Mahindra Maxximo

http://mahindraplanet.blogspot.com/2010/01/mahindra-launches-maxximo-pickup.html

ndia’s leading SUV manufacturer,today organised the ‘Maxximo C2CRDe Mileage Rally’, a unique customer centric initiative aimed at highlighting the vehicle’s class leading fuel economy. This mileage test was done for Maxximo owners in Ludhiana.
Having clocked a record mileage of 35 km/litre, the event took the city by storm.

mpg = (km/lt) * 2.35214583 82.3 MPG

That's NY to Miami for $65, tell me you couldn't find a use for one of those little suckers. We're talking fuel expense about equal to belts-oil-tires.

And the Maxximo's competitor:

Tata Ace

http://ace.tatamotors.com/home.php

http://www.marketing91.com/tata-ace-market-challengers/

The Mileage efficiency of Tata Ace is 20-22 KMPL
[47-51.7 MPG]

http://business.inquirer.net/15879/the-best-rides-to-combat-high-fuel-prices


Yeah but those don't meet US safety standards (got Ben Franklin?)...

Well how about these non-US offerings from Toyota and Isuzu:

Isuzu D-Max 4×2 pickup (manual 2.5L diesel)—20.57 km/L [48 MPG]

http://business.inquirer.net/15879/the-best-rides-to-combat-high-fuel-prices

We get the same chassis as the "Chevy" Colorado and the Isuzu Rodeo... both 21 mpg.

Toyota Hilux pickup (manual 2.5L diesel)—19.12 km/L [44.9 MPG]

Look familiar? Yeah that 45 MPDG Hilux is our top performing 22 MPG Tacoma.

....Hang On Tight!


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_discrimination

Price discrimination or price differentiation[SUP][1][/SUP] exists when sales of identical goods or services are transacted at different prices from the same provider.[SUP][2][/SUP] In a theoretical market with perfect information, perfect substitutes, and no transaction costs or prohibition on secondary exchange (or re-selling) to prevent arbitrage, price discrimination can only be a feature of monopolistic and oligopolistic markets,[SUP][3][/SUP] where market power can be exercised.

This is price discrimination. Just like when you buy laundry soap... its all the same shit with different coloring agents and a different label. The more money then cents folks take the Tide off the top shelf, and the more cents than money folks wash with Fab. Everyone gets clean clothes. Everyone gets a progressive price. In the US we get our pickup trucks wrapped up in a big fancy, heavy, fuel guzzling package. While the rest of the world gets twice the mileage with the diesel truck they need. Everyone gets where they're going...

Could you imagine if we actually ALREADY produced 60-70 mpg cars in the US, on an industrial scale, RIGHT NOW... but only exported them:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...ps-and-SUV-s&p=4757831&viewfull=1#post4757831

Could you imagine if the only reason was Fuel Tax Revenue?

We've cornered ourselves. We don't even have a choice any more.

Perhaps the solution is:

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.efede0b

Find yourself a old pickup, one thats to old for the states to worry about the smog test. Go to a junk yard (bigger cities have the best ones) and find yourself a good working diesel with all the parts ya need. Find a garage to put it all together in and your good to go !

Good luck.



related keywords:
Mazda Bongo, Nissan Vanette, Mahindra Diesel, biodiesel, SVO, WVO, EV, diesel electric hybrid,

 

[tod evans]

Quite simply this is due 100% to government regulations..

The GVW determines what EPA regs come into play..

 

[Czolgosz]

I've wanted a light duty diesel for a long time, would love to have a diesel in my FJ and all the LD trucks I've own in the past.

 

[madengr]

Yeah, I have been wanting a VW truck, and one finally came up for sale locally, and my wife shut me down. ARGHH! She complained it had only two seats; no room for kids; that's the point. I woulda pulled the passenger seat too! ;-)

I do see a VW TDI Wagon in my future. One of the few family vehicles you can still get in a 5 speed. Problem is they may be prone to high pressure fuel pump failure, which is a $10k fix out of warranty.

I just don't understand why if you want a diesel in the US it has to weigh 4 tons and get 23 mpg.

Funny thing is, 23 MPG is better than my 2005 Tacoma (4 door), and the Taco is a light truck.

Anyway, this guy nails it. Why you can't buy many diesels in the US. Epic rant.

 

[acptulsa]

Quite simply this is due 100% to government regulations..

The GVW determines what EPA regs come into play..

This is exactly right. In addition, foreign trucks of this size tend to accelerate about as well (maybe) as much heavier trucks in the U.S. American drivers expect one to have a little acceleration under their belts; if you don't you can sit at that stop sign all day as far as we're concerned. Out on the Interstate or on the local truck route, it doesn't matter so much.

It takes a certain amount of money to develop a product. The huge 3500s are easy. You put in a diesel from a Class Six truck (like the Peterbilt 348 the article mentioned) and there you are. This isn't a light truck. This is a medium duty tractor for hauling two axle gooseneck trailers. The U.S. may have the largest car market in the world, but it hardly has a truck market at all. And since there's no diesel car market (due to acceleration and noise), that little light truck market has to pay for a lot of EPA-pleasing special work.

We had all manner of light specialty trucks back in the day. International half tons, Jeep route delivery vehicles and Cushman three wheelers all predated the move by the federal government in the seventies to bury all the competition for GM and Ford except the wealthiest and most dedicated of the importers. Remember the environmentalists carrying on and on about acid rain a while back? Well, here's the tradeoff--no little diesel trucks and no specialty manufacturer to build them.

 

[whippoorwill]

Bump. I've been looking for that 40+MPG in a pickup for awhile now

 

[MozoVote]

Wall of Text. I'm not going to read all the original post.

But - Google for "Chicken Tax", that is one reason you don't see true compact trucks. It's not impossible to sell them, but manufacturers have to weave and dodge the rules in order to import small trucks.

Truck bloat has been a problem for a while now too. The Nissan Frontier is clearly not the size it was when they were selling the old hardbody truck in the 1980s.

Ford axed the Ranger without a replacement, even though it still sold 80,000 units a year and the tooling had been completely paid for. Keeping the decrepit old plant in Wisconsin operating was becoming a headache and they just didn't want to bother anymore. The final irony is there *is* a "Global Ranger" which Ford sells everywhere else in the world. But not here... it would cannibalize F-150 sales, and there is that Chicken Tax problem again.

 

[acptulsa]

Bump. I've been looking for that 40+MPG in a pickup for awhile now

There are certain states that allow very small pickups (like the ones Suzuki makes; I'm talking really small) escape pollution standards, safety regulations, and other things and get regulated less like a light truck and more like a motorcycle. If you haven't seen them around, this isn't because they aren't available at all. It's because your state is regulating them out of existence. Other states have set a precedent for suffering these little pickups to live, save them fuel money and cut their carbon emissions. Though many of those states don't allow them on expressways.

If you can't get them, lobby for them. It may not be exactly what you need, but it's an incremental step in the right direction. In two years, this could enable you to say, 'See, we legalized those and the world didn't end.'

Anyway, this guy nails it. Why you can't buy many diesels in the US. Epic rant.

This guy might nail some of the reasons behind this stuff, but he gets a lot of details wrong. So, don't quote him like the Bible. But by all means, this is a good battle for libertarians to pursue. Knock down the EPA and the NHTSA with it? Sure. Let's do it.

 

[AGRP]

Anyway, this guy nails it. Why you can't buy many diesels in the US. Epic rant.

This. They fight for our freedom.

 

[klamath]

Yeah, I have been wanting a VW truck, and one finally came up for sale locally, and my wife shut me down. ARGHH! She complained it had only two seats; no room for kids; that's the point. I woulda pulled the passenger seat too! ;-)

I do see a VW TDI Wagon in my future. One of the few family vehicles you can still get in a 5 speed. Problem is they may be prone to high pressure fuel pump failure, which is a $10k fix out of warranty.


Funny thing is, 23 MPG is better than my 2005 Tacoma (4 door), and the Taco is a light truck.

Anyway, this guy nails it. Why you can't buy many diesels in the US. Epic rant.

I just had to get rid of my TDI wagen this year. Being where I live I need 4wd to get to my place I was having to maintain a VW and a Jeep. The cost of maintaining both vehicles did in the fuel mpg advantage of the tdi. I traded them both in for a subaru wagon. The subaru is not nearly as fun to drive. I did have a few computer glitches with the VW but the service was great. Actually the 6 speed tiptronic transmission was great. You can go to the manual mode and shift gears without pushing in a clutch.

 

[youngbuck]

There was a company in Inidia that was going to export a compact diesel pickup to America a few years ago. A lot of off-road enthusiasts were interested in its potential. Just did a search on it:

With apologies to the Beatles, it's been a long and winding road for those waiting to get their hands on the steering wheel of a small, diesel-powered pickup from Mahindra. Here's the good news: Something definitive has finally been heard from the Indian automaker. Here's the bad news: It's bad news.

According to Reuters, Mahindra "recently decided not to proceed further with the project due to changes in the U.S. regulatory and market situation." In other words, the truck we've long been expecting isn't going to happen. That said, "M&M will continue to monitor the U.S. situation and remain flexible with its approach to this market."

 

[tod evans]

Looks like a market opportunity for those with some free capital...

Maybe an old Perkins 3 cylinder fitted with a turbo mated to a nice aluminum bodied 6 speed.........all bolted to universal mounts that could be welded to anything from a cub-cadet to a late model p/u ....No computer, adjustable fuel rail pressure and boost...neat project..

 

[youngbuck]

Looks like a market opportunity for those with some free capital...

Maybe an old Perkins 3 cylinder fitted with a turbo mated to a nice aluminum bodied 6 speed.........all bolted to universal mounts that could be welded to anything from a cub-cadet to a late model p/u ....No computer, adjustable fuel rail pressure and boost...neat project..

That would be awesome.

 

[ghengis86]

Looks like a market opportunity for those with some free capital...

Maybe an old Perkins 3 cylinder fitted with a turbo mated to a nice aluminum bodied 6 speed.........all bolted to universal mounts that could be welded to anything from a cub-cadet to a late model p/u ....No computer, adjustable fuel rail pressure and boost...neat project..

Great idea!

 

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

Quite simply this is due 100% to government regulations..

Domestic car companies can't get legislation changed that is favorable to them? I thought they had that kind of clout. I suspect they're fine with the current regulatory climate. (we get screwed, but that's not really their concern.)

Wall of Text. I'm not going to read all the original post.

You missed a bunch of interesting things. Why should everyone read what you're writing when they may have already read it in the OP?

 

[John F Kennedy III]

About 2 years ago I was really excited about the concept pics I was seeing for the 2014 Toyota Tundra and Ford F150. I can't find them anymore. Maybe someone else can? Are there any official pics yet of either?

I also loved the concept of the Hummer 4: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hummer_HX


Edit: This appears to be the 2014 F150:

 

[tod evans]

Domestic car companies can't get legislation changed that is favorable to them? I thought they had that kind of clout. I suspect they're fine with the current regulatory climate. (we get screwed, but that's not really their concern.)

For years there's been collusion between big-oil/government and car manufacturers....They've all figured out how to use climate and pollution alarmists to their financial benefit and anything offered to the "consumer" must fit neatly into one of the preordained pigeonholes.

Sure the manufacturers could profit off mass-marketed diesels in small vehicles but the other two factions would take hits in their wallets...

 

[John F Kennedy III]

How about importing one of those foreign trucks and driving it here? Can you if you had the FRN's?

 

[Brian4Liberty]

For years there's been collusion between big-oil/government and car manufacturers....They've all figured out how to use climate and pollution alarmists to their financial benefit and anything offered to the "consumer" must fit neatly into one of the preordained pigeonholes.

Sure the manufacturers could profit off mass-marketed diesels in small vehicles but the other two factions would take hits in their wallets...

Corporatism in a nutshell.

 

[tod evans]

How about importing one of those foreign trucks and driving it here? Can you if you had the FRN's?

If a person could clear all of the EPA and customs hurdles they'd still face import duties that'll bring the cost on par with a new Jag....