Where are all of the Libertarians, Democrats and Independents? Only Republicans left?

[RollOn2day]

Independent Still On The Forum!

I think I get the gist of the present effort. ( I don't agree with it but I get it.)

Third Parties haven't won in recent US history so our efforts are better directed to taking over the GOP and making it the party of our chosing. ( Forget that Ross Perot polled at 35% before he quit and even then got 20% of the vote in the general election. And yes he got A LOT of TV time both bought and free. and yes the grassroots would have funded this easily) This effort will take years and we will have to rely on people who have no political history of voting constitutionally but rather are SAYING that they will. Can we expect them all to resist the lobbyist money and corruption? I think even the most naive of us know better.

Using this logic, the same could be said of the Democratic Party as it is one of the two parties available to "take over". Except they are strong right now and the Republican Party is weak therefore ripe for the taking.

What remains to be seen is if the Republican Party is as weak as you make it out to be. We already know that it is "damaged goods" even if we do take it over. The GOP is now branded with a deep association with Reagan/Bush era politics that perhaps can not be changed in the the modern lexicon.

I am truly understanding that the GOP hardliners on this forum actually do feel betrayed by their own party. You believed the promises made by Reagan and Bush. However, you should remember that there are those of us who saw through those hollow promises from the very start and have been fighting for the American public to wake up and look at the GOP's actions and not their promises for a long time now.

You now join us in fighting what the GOP, in your eyes, has become....in our eyes always was. And we welcome you.

The crazy thing is...you have joined our fight to beat the GOP...and now want us to go away if we don't follow your lead on beating by....becoming it!

We are your family and that INCLUDES Democrats, Republicans, Christians, Aethiests, Gold Bugs, Gun nuts, Tree huggers, Hippies, Military Veterans, Peace Lovers etc etc etc?

We all want Ron Paul to be President. We all want Peace, Freedom and Prosperity. We just have differing views on how to achieve this.

These differing views should find a home on these forums! They should be debated and encouraged...not denigrated and shunned.

 

[WilliamC]

I have always maintained that there should be no parties. Just candidates.

Parties are group think pigeon holes. There are no Americans left. Only groups of people, huddled together, each feeling some false sense of brotherhood, pointing at all of the other groups and saying that those groups are idiots, my group is right.

Each candidate should stand as an individual and be elected on his own merit.

As far as the claim that Ron Paul is the reluctant candidate who never wanted to win...you really gotta be kiddin' me.

Ron has criss-crossed this nation like an 18 year old. He's delivered 3 speeches in one day many times while nursing his voice which was all but gone. He remained afterward to greet every single supporter who showed up, every time, for a year.

He stood up at every debate, head held high, while moderators asked him bullshit questions like, "Are you blaming the American people for the 9/11 attacks?", "Are you saying that we should take our marching orders from Al Qaeda?", and "regarding electability...do you have any?", while the other candidates laughed at him through purposely left open microphones.

He did countless interviews, heavily laden with similar ridiculous questions , that never got aired. He was made to stand outside in the freezing cold to do an interview with Larry King 'Live', that was never aired, just one example of many such interviews. MSM would attempt to set him up, looking for a Dean moment. When instead, Ron knocked the cover off the ball, they simply didn't air the segment.

Ron delivered a speech in Iowa while his wife of 50 years lay in a hospital bed awaiting surgery to implant a pacemaker during what is infamously referred to now as the "comedic" Ames straw poll. He arrived late after having to pry himself away from his wife and many assurances by the local surgical team that she would be fine. After the longest Iowa straw poll vote count in history, which took place behind locked doors with armed guards at the doors, the GOP announced RP in 5th place. MSM proceeded to publish the results, leaving Ron out of the results altogether, listing the 4th place and 6th place finishers.

The campaign asked beforehand if they could be present for the vote count. The answer was that "each candidate may have a representative there to observe the feeding of the paper ballots into the machines, but there will not be a hand count of any kind." When the campaign insisted on a hand count of the paper ballots, the Iowa GOP told them they would have to pay $185,000.00 up front.

The end result was a "hand count of some 1,500 ballots due to a Diebold machine malfunction." Later reports estimated that 4,500 ballots had to be hand counted, one third of the total votes cast. None of this could be verified because it took place behind locked doors.

And this was just the Iowa Straw Poll.

Ron has never let up for a second. His answers have not changed. His stump speeches have contained precisely the same platform he has had for 30+ years.

No spin doctors, no handlers, no flip flops, no lies, no false promises, no pandering. Hard at it, against all odds, on a shoestring budget (yes, virginia, Ron has been outspent at least 2 to 1 by all of his opponents. McCain had spent more than Ron has raised for the entire campaign by October), with threats, cheating, smears, personal attacks, personal attacks against the Americans who support him and lastly and most importantly...a media blackout the likes of which has never occurred.

Many people have posted in these forums that RP didn't get media exposure because he didn't poll above 15%, to which I say:

McCain was at 15% in December. He had to take a personal loan of $3 million just to get through December. He had fired over 150 staff. Yet, he got 1,500% more media coverage than RP.

RP had set a record for a single day donations. He then shattered that record by setting the all-time record. He was the only candidate to increase his donations in all 4 quarters of '07. He had won more straw polls than all the other candidates combined. He received more donations from active military personnel than all the other candidates combined. He was opening new offices around the country every day. He was hiring new staff.

His was THE story of the campaign. Polls my foot. He got 0.02 percent media coverage. HE WAS BLACKED OUT. PERIOD. people say it's because "HQ" didn't return media phone calls. What a gigantic crock of shit.

McCain miraculously shot up 20 points in the polls despite the reality of the situation because of no apparent reason, unless you've followed this race closely from the beginning, then it is painfully apparent. Virtually impossible, yet it happened.

Sorry for the long rant, but it's been a long race. The longest and most expensive primary race in history...because of Ron Paul and his astounding support.

I've said it before, and I'm here to say it as many times as needed. I'm in this until Ron Paul tells me it's over. He and his campaign have done there part. We need to continue to do ours.

I'm just sayin...

Bosso

Well worth repeating.

Thanks Bosso, you've got Ron Paul pegged.

He's been an outstanding advocate for the cause of freedom, even though he is not a perfect candidate.

He has worked himself to exhaustion and withstood ridicule and worse from both the media and his own Party.

And now that his Presidential campaign is winding down he is choosing to stay in Congress and continue the fight, even though he well deserves to retire and rest.

So to any of the fair-weather friends and soft supporters, well thanks for what you've done but you've certainly missed out on the truth of Ron Paul's campaign.

The truth is that the price of freedom is eternal vigilance.

The fight will never be over and will never be won because human nature is such that those who love power over their fellow man will always gravitate to government.

Now we must do likewise and wrest the power from them while simultaneously keeping our own integrity intact so we don't become the very thing we are fighting.

Ron Paul has shown us how this can be done, and now it is our turn to do it.

 

[Goldwater Conservative]

Duverger's law is why we have an entrenched two-party system. There are numerous alternative voting systems that would either give us more parties or weaken parties altogether.

Until then, even if you plan on getting active with or voting for something other than the GOP, you should stay registered Republican (if you live in a closed primary state) so you can help Ron Paul Revolutionaries in the primaries. Getting them to the general is huge since there's a built-in constituency of straight-ticket voters.

 

[s35wf]

This woman was an independent, formerly voted democrat; is now a Ron Paul Republican in FL who just voted in my first primary as republican for Dr. Paul. ( i have never quited been involved in politics and like most only ever voted in the general elections)

I have known about RFID technology for several years since this technology forced my to close my business. I cannot believe how far along it has come to the point now where they will be implanting people and animals with this shit.

I am in for the Long Haul! And scared shitless about what my country is doing to the world in the name of the almighty dollar.

I was simply amazed to find Ron Paul. What an honest politicean actually exists???

 

[Revolution9]

I for one am not surprised if indeed there are more Republicans now, as a percentage, than there has been before.

A lot of the antiwar types who thought that Paul was going to be the savior of the antiwar movement and sweep the primaries were sadly mistaken, on both counts.

Paul is a Republican, always has been (except for 88, but the LP is just the defected Taft GOP), and always will be.

Unfortunate for those who had other things in mind.

I'm against the war, too, but come on folks, you can't win with just one issue. Ask George McGovern.

I agree with you here. This must be done from the Republican wing of the one main party. It is pissing up a rope we have no time for to do a third party run. I suggest those doing so should stop riding RP's coattails and get out there and PROVE you can win as a third party before you start shuffling our resources away form the current logical thrust and into your personal agendas,. Thanks.

Best Regards
Randy

 

[LandonCook]

I used to be a Libertarian Party member... Now I'm a Republican Chairman... Doesn't mean we've changed what we beleive.

 

[seeker1]

Great post.

I think I get the gist of the present effort. ( I don't agree with it but I get it.)

Third Parties haven't won in recent US history so our efforts are better directed to taking over the GOP and making it the party of our chosing. ( Forget that Ross Perot polled at 35% before he quit and even then got 20% of the vote in the general election. And yes he got A LOT of TV time both bought and free. and yes the grassroots would have funded this easily) This effort will take years and we will have to rely on people who have no political history of voting constitutionally but rather are SAYING that they will. Can we expect them all to resist the lobbyist money and corruption? I think even the most naive of us know better.

Using this logic, the same could be said of the Democratic Party as it is one of the two parties available to "take over". Except they are strong right now and the Republican Party is weak therefore ripe for the taking.

What remains to be seen is if the Republican Party is as weak as you make it out to be. We already know that it is "damaged goods" even if we do take it over. The GOP is now branded with a deep association with Reagan/Bush era politics that perhaps can not be changed in the the modern lexicon.

I am truly understanding that the GOP hardliners on this forum actually do feel betrayed by their own party. You believed the promises made by Reagan and Bush. However, you should remember that there are those of us who saw through those hollow promises from the very start and have been fighting for the American public to wake up and look at the GOP's actions and not their promises for a long time now.

You now join us in fighting what the GOP, in your eyes, has become....in our eyes always was. And we welcome you.

The crazy thing is...you have joined our fight to beat the GOP...and now want us to go away if we don't follow your lead on beating by....becoming it!

We are your family and that INCLUDES Democrats, Republicans, Christians, Aethiests, Gold Bugs, Gun nuts, Tree huggers, Hippies, Military Veterans, Peace Lovers etc etc etc?

We all want Ron Paul to be President. We all want Peace, Freedom and Prosperity. We just have differing views on how to achieve this.

These differing views should find a home on these forums! They should be debated and encouraged...not denigrated and shunned.

Very well stated and true. We share the same perspective and I'm glad to meet you.

 

[Enzo]

I don't care about any political party.

But if Ron Paul is using the Republican party as a vehicle... so be it.

I don't think the debate has gone from these forums. There are still plenty of people here who are pro-abortion, agnostics, atheists, libertarians, independents, perhaps even liberals.

The few people who have been banned (that I've seen) weren't debating anything... they were spamming the forums with useless, negative posts that had nothing to do with getting Ron Paul elected.

 

[Shink]

The only true benefit to attacking from a GOP angle is simply the unifying effect of having one solid, visible goal. I hate the GOP. I hate it more than most of you because the GOP's party line is what sent me to Baghdad. I have many things about me that would make me an outcast within it, such as atheism and (loosely) pro-choice stance and well, libertarianism. However, I think people have a duty to get Ron Paul Republicans (and if RP Democrats or Greens or RP

 

[Minuteman2008]

I understand the original poster's frustration. But it's the ideas that RP stands for that are still getting out there, even if he isn't rising in the polls. The ideas of freedom, individual liberty and SMALL government that stays out of peoples' lives just happen to fit better with the Republican party, even if that party has strayed far from its roots. Like many here, I no longer feel comfortable being labelled a Republican, I'd rather just be a conservative. I will be changing my registration to Independent because, at this time at least, neither party represents me.

But if one party is going to head in the direction of the ideas RP talks about, then surely the Republican party is much closer than the Democratic party, and that includes issues of sovereignty, border security, and 2nd amendment rights, in addition to the big issues previously mentioned. The Democrats are FAR FAR away from those ideals, and the Republicans are drifting left toward Democratic ideals.

If you came to Ron Paul because of his anti-war stance, maybe you can also get on board with his other ideals too. People change over time, and sometimes they just need their eyes opened a little bit in order to see the light.

 

[thexjib]

libertarian here

 

[lonestarguy]

Ron Paul is a life-time member of the Libertarian Party

I think I get the gist of the present effort. ( I don't agree with it but I get it.)

Third Parties haven't won in recent US history so our efforts are better directed to taking over the GOP and making it the party of our chosing. ( Forget that Ross Perot polled at 35% before he quit and even then got 20% of the vote in the general election. And yes he got A LOT of TV time both bought and free. and yes the grassroots would have funded this easily) This effort will take years and we will have to rely on people who have no political history of voting constitutionally but rather are SAYING that they will. Can we expect them all to resist the lobbyist money and corruption? I think even the most naive of us know better.

Using this logic, the same could be said of the Democratic Party as it is one of the two parties available to "take over". Except they are strong right now and the Republican Party is weak therefore ripe for the taking.

What remains to be seen is if the Republican Party is as weak as you make it out to be. We already know that it is "damaged goods" even if we do take it over. The GOP is now branded with a deep association with Reagan/Bush era politics that perhaps can not be changed in the the modern lexicon.

I am truly understanding that the GOP hardliners on this forum actually do feel betrayed by their own party. You believed the promises made by Reagan and Bush. However, you should remember that there are those of us who saw through those hollow promises from the very start and have been fighting for the American public to wake up and look at the GOP's actions and not their promises for a long time now.

You now join us in fighting what the GOP, in your eyes, has become....in our eyes always was. And we welcome you.

The crazy thing is...you have joined our fight to beat the GOP...and now want us to go away if we don't follow your lead on beating by....becoming it!

We are your family and that INCLUDES Democrats, Republicans, Christians, Aethiests, Gold Bugs, Gun nuts, Tree huggers, Hippies, Military Veterans, Peace Lovers etc etc etc?

We all want Ron Paul to be President. We all want Peace, Freedom and Prosperity. We just have differing views on how to achieve this.

These differing views should find a home on these forums! They should be debated and encouraged...not denigrated and shunned.

Great comments RollOn2day...I take the long view, to me the whole Ron Paul effort has been to utilize the election process to introduce and educate and recruit new voters to the freedom message so as to one day have an electoral majority to win future elections.

To me, since Paul is a life-long member of the Libertarian Party, I want to see Ron Paul run with another credible candidate, say Gary Johnson (fmr 2x NM Governor) or Andrew Napolitano (Judge, author of Nation of Sheeple, fox analyst RP admirer). Yes, running on the 3rd party Libertarian ticket, to continue the process of voter re-education and recruitment and to prevent the McCainiac from reaching the oval office. IF we miss this huge opportunity to introduce, educate, and recruit potentially millions during the general election, the freedom movement will suffer. In addition, we will help deny John"Insane" McCaine the oval office. I'd love to see him bust a vein in prime time.

I say we continue to deny the Republican party the White House until they cry uncle...And with credible, honest candidates with national cache, this strategy could work. Faster than trying to reform the neocon corrupted Republican Party.

I still think it is possible with enough public pressure to get Paul to buy off on such a scenario, after he tidy's up with his congressional seat primary win on 4 March.

Reforming the corrupt Republican Party is a longterm generational project. But I think time is short as the country moves further into the control grid where we are montored like rats.

 

[CUnknown]

Ron Paul should stay a Republican so he can keep his House seat. His run for the Presidency, barring a miracle, will end at the convention.

So, he shouldn't run 3rd party is what I'm saying. However, that doesn't stop the movement from voting 3rd party come November. I assume that none of us will be voting for McCain or Obama, so that leaves us a choice of 3rd party or a write-in protest vote (for Ron Paul). I want to urge people -not- to write in Ron Paul's name on that ballot, since he won't be running at that time.

Why write in a candidate whose presidential ambitions have ended, why persist in a dead dream about what might have been when we can continue with this movement, make it alive again, by voting 3rd party (Libertarian, for example).

If we join the Libertarian party or Constitution party with the same driving enthusiasm and energy that we put into the Ron Paul campaign ... who knows. We just might make a difference.

We certainly won't make any kind of difference by writing in Ron Paul's name.

For those who say, "Let's take over the local GOPs", by all means please do so. I won't be joining you, but on the local level you have to take what you can get. Meaning, we need to support whoever runs on a Ron Paul platform, whatever their party happens to be.

Locally, we all stand with our meetup groups, but as far as this forum goes, we are basically on our own.

But, nationally, it doesn't have to be that way. In national elections, we should all stand together supporting a 3rd party.

Who is with me?

 

[FindLiberty]

Libertarian - long time RP follower/supporter

I may have to become a runner/leader now (GOP-liberty caucus?)
rather than just an activist/educator, or maybe all of the above.

The masses want Karl Marx though...

 

[literatim]

Ron Paul should stay a Republican so he can keep his House seat. His run for the Presidency, barring a miracle, will end at the convention.

So, he shouldn't run 3rd party is what I'm saying. However, that doesn't stop the movement from voting 3rd party come November. I assume that none of us will be voting for McCain or Obama, so that leaves us a choice of 3rd party or a write-in protest vote (for Ron Paul). I want to urge people -not- to write in Ron Paul's name on that ballot, since he won't be running at that time.

Why write in a candidate whose presidential ambitions have ended, why persist in a dead dream about what might have been when we can continue with this movement, make it alive again, by voting 3rd party (Libertarian, for example).

If we join the Libertarian party or Constitution party with the same driving enthusiasm and energy that we put into the Ron Paul campaign ... who knows. We just might make a difference.

We certainly won't make any kind of difference by writing in Ron Paul's name.

For those who say, "Let's take over the local GOPs", by all means please do so. I won't be joining you, but on the local level you have to take what you can get. Meaning, we need to support whoever runs on a Ron Paul platform, whatever their party happens to be.

Locally, we all stand with our meetup groups, but as far as this forum goes, we are basically on our own.

But, nationally, it doesn't have to be that way. In national elections, we should all stand together supporting a 3rd party.

Who is with me?

Staying Republican is the only way to prevent two major factions within the Ron Paul movement dividing between the Constitution and Libertarian Parties. Neither the Libertarian nor the Constitution Party will benefit from the largest faction in the movement, all the paleo-conservatives in the Republican Party.

 

[CUnknown]

So, what does "staying Republican" mean? Are you going to vote for McCain in the general election?

 

[QCB79]

dunno what to tell ya, I'm a Democrat but the only candidate I support in the election is Ron Paul.

 

[Enano1983]

I'm a Ron Paul Democrat and I am here for the long haul.

 

[Forefall]

I'd consider myself Independent as I despise both the Republican and Democrat parties.

 

[Russellk30]

If you look at those graphs its easy to see the real source of the loss of forum activity: Iowa and New Hampshire.

Our peak activity was before the New Hampshire primary. There's a steady decline after that, with the problem worsening after each primary or caucus loss. Super Tuesday, arguably the most important primary day, drew in a little more than half the forum users that the New Hampshire primary did.

I agree that the drop-off in membership does coincide with the primary losses, but after each loss I also remember some senior members of this forum questioning where the campaign was going, and instead of engaging these individuals, a troll witch hunt ensued, people were banned, others just left instead weathering the continual bombardment of negative labels. Trolls, traitor, weak-minded, plant, quitter and so on. This at a time when supporters of candidates that recently dropped out were in all likelihood checking out our forums and asking questions, only to be driven away with a pitch fork because they obviously didn’t understand our movement. A stranger is not necessarily an enemy.

My original rant was directed more at the aggressive and dismissive behavior of Ron Paul Republicans and the idea of working within the establishment (Republican or Democrat) than at the Republican Party itself. Do we embrace the system that is the problem? Are we really so naive to believe that once Republican Party control is achieved, power would be willingly be given up to promote unrestricted ballot access. After fighting so hard for control, just give it away?

I know that many see in a future Republican Party, the same ideals and integrity that you yourselves hold. The idea of giving up power then seems plausible, but don’t count on institutional integrity and ideals matching your own. It is not easy to fundamentally change institutional groupthink that has been building up for decades. Most within the Republican Party accept lies as truth without flinching. Much of the constituency is no different.

One of the most used arguments against third party or independent politics is "What have they done in the past few decades?" but my question is, what has the freedom movement within the Republican Party accomplished over the past many decades? When was the size of government actually reduced? If the freedom movement would set off on its own instead of maintaining the relationship of bastard child within the Republican Party, a little success would be a possibility. The original Taft Republicans saw this and learned from it. Are we to learn the same difficult lessons all over again?

One thing is true. If all of you that plan on reconstructing the Republican Party want to eventually (in the distant future, maybe) succeed, reaching out to people within differing viewpoints is a must. Chasing people off this forum because they are not absolutely committed to this movement or your plans will end in failure.