When They Come For Your Guns . . . You Will Turn Them Over

[oyarde]

Since you are open about it I am curious for what?....if I may know.

LOL , YOU WILL LOVE IT IF HE SAYS.

 

[oyarde]

If the Feds come knocking on my door, I would passively hand over the guns and ammo they know about. Those of us that have stashes of undocumented firearms won't need to worry. A broken down AR can fit just about anywhere! Not to mention a subcompact pistol. Old dried out paint cans are great to conceal ammo or coffee cans.

Edit: Although after some thought, if my kids were grown and self sufficient, I might not be as passive.

Mine are grown, does not change my feelings...

 

[pacelli]

I think that some are missing the point. Your visitors are going to leave with either (A) the number and type of guns they seek (B) you (C) both (A) and (B).

And those who, like you and me, dear reader, go there to die, must get there solely and compulsorily via arrest.

Arrest! Need it be said that it is a breaking point in your life, a bolt of lightning which has scored a direct hit on you?

“I dedicate this to all those who did not live to tell it. And may they please forgive me for not having seen it all nor remembered it all, for not having divined all of it - from The Gulag Archipelago”
― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn

It won't let me +rep you for the Solzhenitsyn quote, but that man went through hell and back. Reading his accounts of the soviet system is a truly haunting and sobering experience. Parallels are quickly drawn.

 

[oyarde]

Might not a good storage place be in a waterproof cannister buried in the ground? Anyone know of a good suitable, affordable container?

There was a place for years in Mass. , Hardigg Industries that made all the foam , fitted containers for the Army and airline companies , check the net for locations , should be able to pick up some surplus

 

[phill4paul]

GUNZ?

What Gunz?

 

[AuH20]

Mobile armed pill boxes???

 

[Pericles]

It won't let me +rep you for the Solzhenitsyn quote, but that man went through hell and back. Reading his accounts of the soviet system is a truly haunting and sobering experience. Parallels are quickly drawn.

Even in this thread, there seems to be denial that the reason for which you will be visited is because you have been denounced as a gun owner, and need to be "re-educated". You will be taken to a place where such people who are a danger to society need to go.

 

[pacelli]

Even in this thread, there seems to be denial that the reason for which you will be visited is because you have been denounced as a gun owner, and need to be "re-educated". You will be taken to a place where such people who are a danger to society need to go.

Most assuredly correct. Even the idea of a 'give away gun' is flawed because that will provide probable cause for further scrutiny. Once the gophers have encroached on your life's time, they are not going away. It will be a fishing expedition.

"Ah, you have contraband. Lets just make sure you haven't forgotten anything. You are now detained."

I think the denial can also be framed as wishful thinking. But ya can't negotiate or make deals with nutcases. You can't ask them to come back later and make an appointment.

There comes a point when every patriot will have a choice to make. Do you make a stand or do you 'go along to get along'.

 

[GuerrillaXXI]

I'm just thinking that it is always better to fight on your own terms. If someone were to come to my house tonight to seize weapons, would it not be better to, as mortepa mentioned, hand over a less-useful gun, then develop plans based on the actual situation? To attempt to "hold the fort" would probably just result in my death and the destruction of my house and nothing more, whereas being free to bug out and round up equipment and allies would allow for a little more even fight.

Yes, it's true that being surrounded in your house means doom (arrest or death) unless someone outside your house comes to rescue you. If surrounded, the best you can hope for is to take some with you -- which shouldn't necessarily be seen as such a bad thing, though not ideal. If they kill one of you and you kill two of them, then you win 2-1 and give the rest of them something to think about before they go onto the next house.

Still, there's no point in pretending to cooperate by giving up a "dummy gun." You'll be putting yourself at their mercy, and they might simply beat or torture you until you tell them where all your other guns are. Or they might beat and torture you regardless, just for the fun of it. Being unarmed at any time in the face of naked tyranny is not acceptable IMO.

If mass confiscation occurs, the vast majority of us will hear about it before it reaches our homes. That's when we leave our houses and go "fight on our own terms," as you put it. That means going on the offense: hunting the confiscators and anyone who is complicit in their crimes.

 

[GuerrillaXXI]

Can you give me any links or recommend any books about improvised explosives ? I got a little interested in rockets and smoke grenades lately.

There's a lot of information on YouTube, including demonstrations. Also read as much as possible on the ScienceMadness.org discussion boards. Although a lot of the discussion there will seem quite abstruse to someone without a chemistry degree or a lot of self-study, some of the compositions are surprisingly simple.

Google Patents has a lot of good info, too, if you search there. Here are some US patents I recommend downloading and studying to start:

4,093,478
4,253,889
5,665,935
5,670,741
5,920,030
6,651,564
6,848,366

The Army's Improvised Munitions Handbook (see pcosmar's link) has some good info in it, but I consider that just the beginning. Also, the IMH doesn't mention some of the pitfalls involved with certain substances (e.g., HMTD should be kept out of contact with metals). As stated above, you can really broaden and deepen your knowledge by browsing ScienceMadness.org, similar discussion boards, and even watching lots of YouTube videos and reading the comments. For example, here's how to make sodium chlorate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXEQ5rlA8Us

Amazon.com has some great books on explosives, but you might be leery of purchasing a book like that "on the record." Still, it's not illegal just to read about this stuff -- at least not yet.

Here's another great site that went down but is mirrored at MIT:

http://web.mit.edu/semenko/Public/Military Manuals/RogueSci-Mirror/explosives.html

On a final note, be aware that it's currently perfectly legal to buy a certain high explosive known as Tannerite. This is used in exploding rifle targets. It is a mixture of ammonium nitrate, aluminum powder, and a few additives:

http://www.tannerite.com/

Here's what 12 lbs can do to a small car:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u617P7g3O7I

It's likely that Tannerite has a shelf life as sold. However, even the main components might still be very useful after that. I.e., if the ammonium nitrate takes on too much water over years in storage, it can be later be dehydrated in an oven -- or it can be used for other syntheses.

Here's how to make homemade Tannerite:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KQO_9tN2mw

 

[shane77m]

http://www.blacklistednews.com/And_...spend_Posse_Comitatus?/20848/0/38/38/Y/M.html

The accused shooter in the Aurora, Colo., movie theater massacre, James Holmes, allegedly deployed IEDs in his apartment, prompting federal law enforcement agencies to look into possible links to domestic or foreign-based terrorism.

The incident follows disrupted IED attacks in 2010 — a car bomb disarmed in New York City’s Times Square and explosives detected in ink cartridges aboard two U.S.-bound commercial cargo planes.

And with Mexican drug cartels using car bombs in cities bordering Texas, officials along the southwest border are increasingly concerned about ready-to-go devices being smuggled into the United States.

“The domestic IED threat from both homegrown terrorists and global threat networks is real and presents a significant security challenge for the United States and our international partners,” Army Lt. Gen. Michael Barbero, director of the Pentagon’s so-called Joint Improvised Explosive Device Defeat Organization, warned Congress in classified testimony in mid-July.

Terrorists remain committed to deploying IEDs “in traditional as well as new and creative ways” because the devices remain “a cheap and easily accessible means to achieve high visibility effect,” Barbero says.

This little article might fit with some of the links above.

 

[Anti Federalist]

I regret that I have but one rep to give for that post.

I think that some are missing the point. Your visitors are going to leave with either (A) the number and type of guns they seek (B) you (C) both (A) and (B).

And those who, like you and me, dear reader, go there to die, must get there solely and compulsorily via arrest.

Arrest! Need it be said that it is a breaking point in your life, a bolt of lightning which has scored a direct hit on you? That it is an unassimilable spiritual earthquake not every person can cope with, as a result of which people often slip into insanity?

The Universe has as many different centers as there are living beings in it. Each of us is a center of the Universe, and that Universe is shattered when they hiss at you: "You are under arrest."

If you are arrested, can anything else remain unshattered by this cataclysm?

But the darkened mind is incapable of embracing these dis*placements in our universe, and both the most sophisticated and the veriest simpleton among us, drawing on all life's experience,
can gasp out only: "Me? What for?"

The majority sit quietly and dare to hope. Since you aren't guilty, then how can they arrest you? It's a mistake! They are already dragging you along by the collar, and you still keep on exclaiming to yourself: "It's a mistake! They'll set things straight and let me out!" Others are being arrested en masse, and that's a bothersome fact, but in those other cases there is always some dark area: "Maybe he was guilty . . . ?" But as for you, you are obviously innocent! You still believe that the Organs are humanly logical institutions: they will set things straight and let you out.

Why, then, should you run away? And how can you resist right then? After all, you'll only make your situation worse; you'll make it more difficult for them to sort out the mistake. And it isn't just that you don't put up any resistance; you even walk down the stairs on tiptoe, as you were ordered to do, so your neighbors won't hear.

At what exact point, then, should one resist? When one's belt is taken away? When one is ordered to face into a corner? When one crosses the threshold of one's home? An arrest consists of a series of incidental irrelevancies, of a multitude of things that do not matter, and there seems to be no point in arguing about any one of them individually — especially at a time when the thoughts of the person arrested are wrapped tightly about the big question: "What for?" — and yet all these incidental irrelevancies taken together implacably constitute the arrest.

And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.
http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/10420.Aleksandr_I_Solzhenitsyn




“I dedicate this to all those who did not live to tell it. And may they please forgive me for not having seen it all nor remembered it all, for not having divined all of it - from The Gulag Archipelago”
― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn

 

[pcosmar]

This little article might fit with some of the links above.

IEDs.
That became big news with the recent wars. IEDs,,, it was plastered on the news,, repeated over and over.
The new weapon of choice of terrorists. The biggest threat to the troops.

Do you know the meaning?

Improvised Explosive Device..
It can be anything from a homemade firecracker to a rigged tanker truck.
It is improvised.
It explodes.

It is the weapon of choice of the desperate, those that have no other choice of a better weapon.

 

[tmg19103]

Might have been posted as I don't have time to read 12 pages.

As we saw in Katrina, LE (and brainwashed military) will disarm citizens. Some have argued cops and military, being citizens themselves, would not do this on a large scale basis. Don't count in it.

If they come, it would be suicide to resist. Your call. I respect fighting to the death for your rights.

What I would suggest is vacuum sealing and burying an AR/AK and semi-auto pistol with a good deal of ammo. Give them your other guns so they think you are unarmed and start forming resistance groups to sneak out at night and take out selective targets. Bleed them with a thousands cuts by taking a few out every couple nights and the hope is they all give up.

 

[Tod]

I think that some are missing the point. Your visitors are going to leave with either (A) the number and type of guns they seek (B) you (C) both (A) and (B).

And those who, like you and me, dear reader, go there to die, must get there solely and compulsorily via arrest.

Arrest! Need it be said that it is a breaking point in your life, a bolt of lightning which has scored a direct hit on you? That it is an unassimilable spiritual earthquake not every person can cope with, as a result of which people often slip into insanity?

The Universe has as many different centers as there are living beings in it. Each of us is a center of the Universe, and that Universe is shattered when they hiss at you: "You are under arrest."

If you are arrested, can anything else remain unshattered by this cataclysm?

But the darkened mind is incapable of embracing these dis*placements in our universe, and both the most sophisticated and the veriest simpleton among us, drawing on all life's experience,
can gasp out only: "Me? What for?"

The majority sit quietly and dare to hope. Since you aren't guilty, then how can they arrest you? It's a mistake! They are already dragging you along by the collar, and you still keep on exclaiming to yourself: "It's a mistake! They'll set things straight and let me out!" Others are being arrested en masse, and that's a bothersome fact, but in those other cases there is always some dark area: "Maybe he was guilty . . . ?" But as for you, you are obviously innocent! You still believe that the Organs are humanly logical institutions: they will set things straight and let you out.

Why, then, should you run away? And how can you resist right then? After all, you'll only make your situation worse; you'll make it more difficult for them to sort out the mistake. And it isn't just that you don't put up any resistance; you even walk down the stairs on tiptoe, as you were ordered to do, so your neighbors won't hear.

At what exact point, then, should one resist? When one's belt is taken away? When one is ordered to face into a corner? When one crosses the threshold of one's home? An arrest consists of a series of incidental irrelevancies, of a multitude of things that do not matter, and there seems to be no point in arguing about any one of them individually — especially at a time when the thoughts of the person arrested are wrapped tightly about the big question: "What for?" — and yet all these incidental irrelevancies taken together implacably constitute the arrest.

And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.





“I dedicate this to all those who did not live to tell it. And may they please forgive me for not having seen it all nor remembered it all, for not having divined all of it - from The Gulag Archipelago”
― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn

Thanks, I have some very interesting reading to do, I see. +rep

 

[Weston White]

Neo-cons do not believe in fighting to defend themselves, they only believe in commanding others to do their fighting for them (i.e., through legislative fiat), so to tell it truthfully they could care less about anybodies II Amendment rights, just so long as the police and military are well-armed.

What an utterly idiotic statement to be made: “unless you choose to die that day -- for nothing.”

 

[pacelli]

"If you stay inside, you will die."

 

[shane77m]

Went by Basspro shops this past weekend. The gun department was hopping. The place where they stocked their bulk 223 ammo was empty.

 

[GuerrillaXXI]

IEDs.
That became big news with the recent wars. IEDs,,, it was plastered on the news,, repeated over and over.
The new weapon of choice of terrorists. The biggest threat to the troops.

Do you know the meaning?

Improvised Explosive Device..
It can be anything from a homemade firecracker to a rigged tanker truck.
It is improvised.
It explodes.

It is the weapon of choice of the desperate, those that have no other choice of a better weapon.

Polish resistance fighters used improvised grenades against the Nazis. They did this under the worst possible conditions. Wikipedia has some links about that:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheddite
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_wz._42
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filipinka

People would do very well to read up more on the various kinds of cheddites. Here's an example of one in use (a mere 50 g):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR147FK5Dtw

Many might worry that modern military body armor makes hand grenades less effective. This is true of the fragments; however, the force of a blast alone can cause severe injury or death in spite of body armor, especially indoors and close to solid walls. In fact, body armor can actually amplify this effect. This is the principle behind what's called a concussion grenade (not to be confused with a flash-bang):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_grenade#Concussion

Blast overpressure falls off quickly with distance (according to the inverse cube of the distance from the explosion), but if one of those grenades goes off within several feet of you while you're indoors, it's gonna be lights out.

As said earlier: There's no need to actually MAKE any of this stuff (although lots of hobbyists do, as is clear from YouTube). But each person here should learn as much as possible about it and become an expert. Knowledge is power!

 

[Okie RP fan]

First, the author seems confused regarding the use of "neo-cons" and the assumption that only one group of Americans own firearms (as opposed to only one group- progressives- wanting to ban them).

This is an issue that I ponder almost daily. Do we surrender our guns, and possibly live to fight another day? Or, do we make our stand at that moment?

I plan on making my stand right then and there. Better to go down fighting, than on my knees as a slave.

All I can say for now is keep stocking up on what you can/want (keep your guns oiled, and ammo cool and dry) and form relations with family, friends, and/or neighbors who may share your views on the subject. Militias will be necessary in staving off the first waves.

Now, take that DHS, NSA, and anyone who thinks this post is "troubling." I believe the Founders would understand, as they went through the same trials and tribulations.