Commodities: What would happen to gold if there was a currency and market collapse?

The banks who hold massive, neverending short positions on gold, and particularly silver, would get absolutely murdered; and the price for both metals would explode to the upside literally within a few minutes. How high is anybody's guess.
 
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And people would start accepting it as money.

It happened in Zimbawe. When the government lost the capacity of imposing the monopoly on money gold started being accepted in shops, along with some western paper currencies that are "stable" there.

There is a video in Youtube showing how some people spend the day in the river trying to get 1 gram of gold because that will let them eat for the day.
 
What would happen to gold if there was a currency and market collapse?

Gerald Celente is predicting a currency crisis in the future and total market collapse. What do you think would happen to gold and silver?

On the short term, price of gold and silver (and indeed all commodities) will go through the roof, and will continue to rise fast. People won't figure it out right away. They'll think that it's gold and silver (in fact "living costs") that's getting more expensive/valuable.

The government will respond by blaming merchants for their "greed", and enforce price controls with severe penalties for non-compliance. Merchants will respond by adjusting down the quality/quantity/level of service to the new price.

Soon enough prices will rise so much that any money people have in the bank or on hand can't buy anything. People will realize it isn't gold and silver that's getting expensive, it's cash (fiat) money that's becoming worthless/losing value.

Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value - zero. --Voltaire

Their first reaction will be to try to spend their cash as soon as possible, effectively converting it from worthless paper money to a commodity. This will send the price of commodities further up and the worth of paper money further down.

Bank runs! Banks will respond by setting maximum withdrawal limits, and the government will back them up with a "banking holiday". Some banks may be nationalized.

The same will happen to currency-denominated paper assets such as stocks and bonds - people will try to liquidate them as soon as possible, and use the cash to buy gold, silver, or other commodities.

The massive sellout will cause a crash in both the stock market and the bonds market.

By now people will figure out that they're screwed and merchants will abandon cash and start using and accepting gold and silver as money. The government will see this as a threat and start threatening merchants who refuse to accept its (paper) currency with jail.

Merchants will take the cue and instead of accepting worthless money, will shut down shop. All meaningful trade and economic transactions will therefore be pushed to the black market zone.

The government will attempt to confiscate all gold and silver it can get its hands on (as what happened in 1933), making it a crime to hold on to your own gold. The first gold to go would be that in lockers and vaults in banks.

Eventually the government will send the army into the streets to attempt to enforce "law and order", perhaps simultaneously attempting to introduce a new currency (or reintroduce the old one).

Tyranny follows. How can we be so sure about the sequence of events? Because it's happened before - Rome, France, Argentina... the list goes on...

Ironically, it was Keynes who said this:
There is no subtler, no surer means of overturning the existing basis of society than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and does it in a manner which not one man in a million can diagnose.
 
Ironically, it was Keynes who said this:

I think the quote is not from Keynes himself but from Lenin. The quote appears in one of the first economic books written by Keynes. Keynes quotes Lenin and then says that he agrees with the quote.

So Keynes agrees with that stament, but it is not his quote.

And as you say, ironically later on he would become one of the biggest cheerleaders for inflation.
 
The government will attempt to confiscate all gold and silver it can get its hands on (as what happened in 1933), making it a crime to hold on to your own gold. The first gold to go would be that in lockers and vaults in banks.

One of reasons why there is really no safe heaven in a scenario like that, heck unlike in 1933 we can't even use Switzerland any more.
 
well if you are betting on hyper inflation just buy some land now and pay for it later with hyper inflated dollars.
 
The same will happen to currency-denominated paper assets such as stocks and bonds - people will try to liquidate them as soon as possible, and use the cash to buy gold, silver, or other commodities.

The massive sellout will cause a crash in both the stock market and the bonds market.

This is the part I don't get and would like to learn more about as it happened historically.

If I keep my Westinghouse stock ... I still own some percentage of Westinghouse. No matter what new currencies are introduced or how inflated the dollar is ... I still own a percentage of Westinghouse. (unless they go bankrupt) So, if they stay in business, I should be able to assume that the stock will rise to match inflation - more or less depending on the value of the company to remain reasonably constant. If a new currency is introduced my x shares should have the same or similar purchasing power in that new currency.

I chose Westinghouse because I think the nuclear power producer should still be in business - but feel free to substitute another company if you think they're more likely to not go under.


Of course the beloved capital gains tax could eat that right up.
 
I think the quote is not from Keynes himself but from Lenin. The quote appears in one of the first economic books written by Keynes. Keynes quotes Lenin and then says that he agrees with the quote.

Thanks for pointing that out. I dug up the entire quote and it's even more interesting to hear what Lenin is reported to have said. The following is by Keynes, writing in 1919:

Lenin is said to have declared that the best way to destroy the capitalist system was to debauch the currency. By a continuing process of inflation, governments can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens.

By this method they not only confiscate, but they confiscate arbitrarily; and, while the process impoverishes many, it actually enriches some. The sight of this arbitrary rearrangement of riches strikes not only at security, but at confidence in the equity of the existing distribution of wealth.

Those to whom the system brings windfalls, beyond their deserts and even beyond their expectations or desires, become 'profiteers,' who are the object of the hatred of the bourgeoisie, whom the inflationism has impoverished, not less than of the proletariat.

As the inflation proceeds and the real value of the currency fluctuates wildly from month to month, all permanent relations between debtors and creditors, which form the ultimate foundation of capitalism, become so utterly disordered as to be almost meaningless; and the process of wealth-getting degenerates into a gamble and a lottery.

Lenin was certainly right. There is no subtler, no surer means of overturning the existing basis of society than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose.
 
Thanks for pointing that out. I dug up the entire quote and it's even more interesting to hear what Lenin is reported to have said. The following is by Keynes, writing in 1919:

excellent find. thanks for sharing.
 
I think the quote is not from Keynes himself but from Lenin. The quote appears in one of the first economic books written by Keynes. Keynes quotes Lenin and then says that he agrees with the quote.

So Keynes agrees with that stament, but it is not his quote.

And as you say, ironically later on he would become one of the biggest cheerleaders for inflation.


There is no proof whatsoever of Lenin ever saying that.

"Many people have combed through every word of Lenin, to no avail," writes
Dr. Rothbard. "He simply never said it. (To do so he would have to be a lot more
familiar with sound economics than he was.) Just another case where Keynes goofed."

It was mentioned in Ron Paul's book Gold, Peace and Prosperity.

mises.org/books/goldpeace.pdf
 
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