WHAT WE'RE UP AGAINST IN THE GENERAL: My Argument with a Flock of Communists...

[Godmode7]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=t77NOsLulvE

I hate living in Ann Arbor. Look at how stupid they all are! Happy because he said something good about the UofM and they all fall in love with him?!

Might not show many video comments but everyone on my FB are praising him-_-

 

[Lishy]

I don't believe antagonizing a particular group of people is a good way to promote Ron Paul.

Rather, if you want to do Ron Paul's campaign justice, you should educate them about Paul so that they vote for him instead of Obama.

People become communist not because they have have an obsession with red, hate the rich, or fap to Karl Marx, but because they see it as a solution!

Speaking as a socialist myself, I support Ron Paul BECAUSE he has a plan combat corporate corruption, and end our growing class division, and rising costs.

You need to APPEAL to communists that, though his means of social justice is different, his ultimate objective is what they want!

 

[awake]

The Read Curve:

Libertarians on one end and communists on the other. In between are the swayable masses being influenced by the exclusive minority of individuals on either end of the curve. It is a war for the minds of men; every individual is a jury of his peers; is it liberty that wins or slavery? One side has violence on its side the other has reason. This is the battle of all time. It is literally intellectual armageddon.

 

[acptulsa]

'It just looks to me like communism is such a happy family affair that not a communist wants to stay where it is practiced. It's the only thing they want you to have but keep none for themselves.'--Will Rogers

//

'Communism is like prohibition; it's a good idea but it won't work.'--Will Rogers

Siberia is still working. It's just as cold on you to be sent there under the Soviets as it was under the czar.

 

[Lishy]

Libertarians on one end and communists on the other.

I don't think turning this into a left-wing/right-wind issue is right either... Communists and libertarians both want the same thing.

 

[awake]

I don't think turning this into a left-wing/right-wind issue is right either... Communists and libertarians both want the same thing.

I would disagree, Communists ultimately want power for power sake. To exercise total control over all men, to shape them like clay . Libertarians seek the dissolving of power to the individual level where power to control is best managed and people are limited to only voluntary power over others.

 

[Revolution9]

I don't think turning this into a left-wing/right-wind issue is right either... Communists and libertarians both want the same thing.

Communists killed 700 million in the 20th century. You are deluded to believe that libertarianism wants this.

Rev9

 

[HigherVision]

I find that most 'liberals' views don't differ too much from Communism. They just don't like to call themselves Communists because of how extreme it sounds, but their actual opinions aren't signficantly less extreme. The only difference is they want to want to be able keep their own property, it's just everyone else who shouldn't be allowed to own anything.

 

[Schiff_FTW]

What was that Ron Paul said during the NH primary night speech? It had to do with bringing everyone to freedom on their own terms, showing how it benefits them.

 

[acptulsa]

I would disagree, Communists ultimately want power for power sake. To exercise total control over all men, to shape them like clay . Libertarians seek the dissolving of power to the individual level where power to control is best managed and people are limited to only voluntary power over others.

Or, to put it another way, Communism is either at best arrogance or it's hunger for power and greed.

Libertarianism, on the other hand, is founded on the simple precept that we can best micromanage our own lives.

 

[PierzStyx]

That's like blaming the rape victim for not being impervious to penises.

Man. What a heck of a way to put it. But you drove your point home. And the comparison is apt.

 

[Lishy]

Communists killed 700 million in the 20th century. You are deluded to believe that libertarianism wants this.

So you're saying I want to kill people in the name of my "ideology"?

Look, I'm saying that we need to put this left-wing/right-wing issue aside.

We need to know WHY people believe the things they do, and WHY people vote. Communists believe in communism for the same reason libertarians believe in libertarianism. Since we're all humans in the end, shouldn't we work together, for Ron Paul's sake?

We must try to convince radical liberals why they should be voting Ron Paul, instead of this ideological nonsense.

 

[PierzStyx]

So you're saying I want to kill people in the name of my "ideology"?

Look, I'm saying that we need to put this left-wing/right-wing issue aside.

We need to know WHY people believe the things they do, and WHY people vote.

Shouldn't we be trying to convince radical liberals why they should be voting Ron Paul, instead of this ideological nonsense?

But its not ideological nonsense. In fact it is very central to the entire point and to Ron Paul's message of constitutionalism and liberty.

 

[Lishy]

But its not ideological nonsense. In fact it is very central to the entire point and to Ron Paul's message of constitutionalism and liberty.

Call it whatever, but normal people in their core still want the same principle - Justice. I'm trying to say that we SHOULD be convincing them to vote Ron Paul because his movement IS what they want, even if his means of doing so isn't what they are familiar with!

Doesn't just the mere fact I'm on a Ron Paul forum and donating to him mean something? There are people on the far left who understand what Ron Paul is trying to do, and that message needs to be spread to people who are skeptical of him!

 

[Gimme Some Truth]

You've got some good arguments there and, of course, communism can only work within a small group where everyone knows everyone else (tho I think it'd be surprising just how small the population would have to be in order for it to work - even amongst friends), I do think it's somewhat of a fair argument to say that the very existence of the State makes corporatism pretty much inevitable. Once you institute a government, those with power and money will lobby the government to get involved in the economy, and the do-gooders, the Ralph Naders and Warrens of this world, will act as unwitting pawns for them before moving onto their next crusade.

I think that's their strongest argument (at least that's what I think they touched upon in the latter comments) but it obviously isn't an argument against freemarkets nor for communism.

 

[acptulsa]

My argument when the 'do you believe government has no role at all?' meme comes up is this:

If Washington controls your local fire department, and there's a problem with it, you have to convince about twenty million people that your local fire department is more important than gay marriage, abortion, and their own local fire departments combined. Sound ridiculous to you? I'll just bet that since the PATRIOT Act passed, your local fire department has hired at least half a dozen federal grant proposal writers...

 

[palm]

I deeply and surely wish I was a tenth as smart as you guys. Where do I start?

 

[palm]

Because quite frankly if that communist girl got a hold of me, I just might be a communist - you know?

 

[acptulsa]

Because quite frankly if that communist girl got a hold of me, I just might be a communist - you know?

Well, I suppose shacking up could be considered communism on a very small scale...

 

[awake]

Pure Marxism is the idea that free exchange (capitalism) would collapse on itself out of its own greed and the people would become free from this "exploitation" of the bourgeois. No true communists need lift a finger, 'just wait and see' was the perscription.

But, reality proved them otherwise, and not willing to accept this failure of doctrine, some of the true believers set out fill the credibility void and to help make Capitalism die; to speed up the "inevitable" as they said. To help the final Communism come about, the violence of the state needed to be used. The rest is the bloody history of the Bolshivks, Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, The North Korean Kims gang and many more true believers.

Communism needs absolute naked violence in every sphere of human life to maintain itself as a societal structure. Otherwise mans default nature takes over in which he freely chooses his own life interests over the collective interests of the would be slave masters.