What should jobs pay?

[PRB]

What bargaining power does anyone have if you're one applicant out of hundreds that applied to flip burgers? You try to bargain and you will be laughed at and dismissed.

If you're lucky, the only chips you may have are :

I'll work for less, and for longer hours with less breaks, and I'll complain less. That's as close to a bargain as you can speak.

 

[PRB]

I wonder what the start up cost for a burger operation is.

Burger operation? Much less today if you're on a food truck or push cart. But brick and mortar operations are getting angry at the unfair enforcement of regulations, so the loophole may not last. A lot of the cost is thanks to regulations, minimum wage, franchise fees. If you have no brand, good luck getting business.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Efficiently, i.e. cheaply made goods = part of the prosperity equation
...
But poor people in this country, by and large (not all) are living very well.. much better than Kings and Queens did centuries ago.

The beltway "libertarian" argument. Be happy with your cell phones, TVs, video games and McDonald's. You're better off than a King!

 

[PRB]

The beltway "libertarian" argument. Be happy with your cell phones, TVs, video games and McDonald's. You're better off than a King!

what's wrong with this argument?

 

[Seraphim]

Well he's right from a material perspective. The problem with the status quo (and that of the last 100 years) is the opportunity cost of the every man's economic freedom, ability to build wealth and overall oportunity to be self-sufficient.

Can you imagine the quality of life the average family could have with current technology AND the freedom of 100 years ago?

The beltway "libertarian" argument. Be happy with your cell phones, TVs, video games and McDonald's. You're better off than a King!

 

[LibForestPaul]

Is there some reason jobs should not pay whatever the employer and the employee agree upon? I can't think of any reason.

Yes.
Slavery.
Communism.
Forced labor.
Fiat money supply.
Crony-ism.

5, I count 5 which were answered in a matter of seconds

 

[PRB]

Well he's right from a material perspective. The problem with the status quo (and that of the last 100 years) is the opportunity cost of the every man's economic freedom, ability to build wealth and overall oportunity to be self-sufficient.

Can you imagine the quality of life the average family could have with current technology AND the freedom of 100 years ago?

No, I can't imagine, draw me a picture and give me a clue please.

 

[Carson]

I think a fundamental rule is the person putting up the money and equipment should take half of the prifits.

The person doing the labor should get the other half.

I heard this reference to in many dealing over the past. Even old time business deals made in movies.

It is kind of hard to calculate if you don't have access to the books. Businesses are getting very complex also. Also when the owner works, as many do, they should also share in the labor side of the profit equation.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Yes.
Slavery.
Communism.
Forced labor.
Fiat money supply.
Crony-ism.

5, I count 5 which were answered in a matter of seconds

Your premises-I am disapprove.

 

[CaptUSA]

I think a fundamental rule is the person putting up the money and equipment should take half.

The person doing the labor should get the other half.

No, no, no, no, no. No.

The fundamental rule is (like it is for every exchange) how much does the buyer value your product? You should try to get as close to that as possible. And you can never go over that. If you do, he will stop buying it.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Pointless unless somebody said it was meant to be.

This isn't detailed enough to make sense.

PProsperity is subjective, but generally, being able to afford and have better electronic devices is a indicator of quality of life, if for no other reason than, they generally cost more than food and necessities.

Okay, I'll meet you in the middle and agree that being affluent enough to buy iToys is an indicator.

Long term thinking is for communists, libertarians and capitalists think in impulses and instant gratification.

To the contrary. I'm sure there are some libertines who think in impulses and instant gratification, but that's not traditional libertarianism or capitalism.

protectionist bullshit

That quote had nothing to do with protectionism, express or implied. Your induction has failed you.

 

[PRB]

This isn't detailed enough to make sense.

Okay, I'll meet you in the middle and agree that being affluent enough to buy iToys is an indicator.

People don't create jobs or hire people to better the lives of employees, they hire people because they need help, becuse they want to make more money. Upward mobility is your own responsibility, and your choice.

To the contrary. I'm sure there are some libertines who think in impulses and instant gratification, but that's not traditional libertarianism or capitalism.

Ok, so tell us what IS traditional libertarianism and capitalism

 

[fr33]

What bargaining power does anyone have if you're one applicant out of hundreds that applied to flip burgers? You try to bargain and you will be laughed at and dismissed.

Quite a bit actually. If the worker has a resume, if the worker conducts themselves well, if the worker has experience; all plays into the odds of getting hired.

Then there's...

How well the worker does his or her job; for adjusting wages.

This is anectodotal, I know, but it's so strange to me. I only worked for minimum wage for 2 months of my life. At the time I would have worked for less since I was a teenager trying to get started in the labor force.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Ok, so tell us what IS traditional libertarianism and capitalism

Traditional libertarianism defined and explained here-http://mises.org/rothbard/newlibertywhole.asp
Laissez-faire capitalism explained here(introductory)-http://bastiat.mises.org/2012/03/austrian-economics-laissez-faire-and-consumer-primacy/

I'm not going to do your homework for you, sorry.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

The beltway "libertarian" argument. Be happy with your cell phones, TVs, video games and McDonald's. You're better off than a King!

Bread and circuses! Who has had it this good in the history of man! If they do not have bread, let them eat Twinkies.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Forum crash...

 

[PRB]

Zippy, on this note, it reminds of another mentality/attitude I see/hear way too often.

People complaining that companies, governments, services are not fast enough, not available 24/7. But they won't be the ones willing to work those jobs.

People complaining that supermarkets are now "conning" or "exploiting" buyers by using self checkout stands, but they won't be willing to work those jobs, or if they are, they're not willing to admit how unskilled and useless they are.

If these people were EVER business owners, maybe they'd understand that paying people to work isn't as easy as it sounds.

 

[jclay2]

So do we want more jobs? It seems we probably do. "Labor force participation is at a modern low- Lowest Level Since Carter". What if we had more jobs but lower wages for those new jobs (the situation we seem to be in now)? What if those new jobs don't pay enough to give people who have chosen not to work an incentive to take them and get paid a little instead of getting paid nothing?

"We need more higher paying jobs". Are we willing to pay higher prices for goods to get and keep them? (no, we aren't).

Should we care about people who choose not to work- those who have left the workforce?

There is no perfect pay for a particular job or some sort of trade off society must make. The price for labor is purely a reflection of supply/demand, nothing else. Typically, the supply and demand for high skilled/high productivity jobs result in high wages. As a society, we should be motivated to acquire the skills necessary for these jobs as they will ultimately lead to higher output and standard of living. Market Wages are just a way of building the economic pie in the most efficient possible way.

 

[jclay2]

The beltway "libertarian" argument. Be happy with your cell phones, TVs, video games and McDonald's. You're better off than a King!

I think most of us see the current prosperity (compared with a century ago) as quite amazing considering we have had to deal with a century of an ever increasing government, taxes, and wealth transfers (inflation).

 

[acptulsa]

I think most of us see the current prosperity (compared with a century ago) as quite amazing considering we have had to deal with a century of an ever increasing government, taxes, and wealth transfers (inflation).

Yeah, but you look at the sci fi shit we have today, then look at the fact that most people who were around to see it will tell you that they were better off thirty or forty years ago during the VCR and cassette tape age, and it doesn't make a bit of sense--until you take a hard look at what tptb has been up to the while.