What is your main issue?

[Dr.3D]

Then why don't we just do away with all laws and just have anarchy?

Because then there would be no standard by which those who have been wronged could seek justice.

 

[Flash]

Because then there would be no standard by which those who have been wronged could seek justice.

In a stateless society, a standard would naturally arise from the market. Such societies have existed in the past and law, along with courts, have still been prevalent.

 

[bkreigh]

I thought I did answer you, but I will try again.

It doesn't directly affect me, but it does matter to me, in the abstract. Your personal situation probably will not affect me any further than this thread, but the epidemic across this country does matter to me. I think we will have to agree to disagree on what a person is.

I apologize for not taking an irrelevant article you posted about an 11 year old getting gang raped seriously. Sorry for asking the question again.

As for agreeing and disagreeing on what a person is, thats what it all comes down to. Who is right or wrong? All i know is that if the courts decide that person is when an egg becomes fertilized then i will disagree with them just as you will disagree with them if they say once they take their first breath or what have you.

 

[ClayTrainor]

Then why don't we just do away with all laws and just have anarchy?

Anarchy ≠ lawlessness. There is just no coercive monopoly that gets to dictate what the law is.

 

[Flash]

Anarchy ≠ lawlessness. There is just no coercive monopoly that gets to dictate what the law is.

Yes, this is a good point. Anyone confused about how private laws, court, & police could function in a free market should be advised to check out:

http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Libertarian/Machinery_of_Freedom/MofF_Chapter_29.html

 

[Vessol]

I would say yes.

If humans are so evil, then why should we have any sort of freedom to commit that evil in the first place? Clearly if humans are evil then they should not be able to practice that evil. So you agree with Thomas Hobbes that we should have a absolutist monarchy?

 

[realtonygoodwin]

I believe in the total depravity of man. A monarch would also be evil, which would not accomplish anything.

 

[Michael P]

1. Steroids in Baseball
2. The Rent is too Damn High

 

[ClayTrainor]

I believe in the total depravity of man. A monarch would also be evil, which would not accomplish anything.

Is it fair to say that you think mankind is hopeless?

 

[Vessol]

I believe in the total depravity of man. A monarch would also be evil, which would not accomplish anything.

So you don't trust a monarch to govern men because he would be evil as well?

Then why have 5 monarchs, or 100 monarchs, or 500 monarchs? Why have any monarchs if they are all evil?

 

[Sola_Fide]

So humans are inherently bad?

Yes.

What a depressing thought. Why don't we just throw away the entire system that gives individuals the power to do evil?

I agree that the system that gives men the opportunity to oppress others needs to be taken down, but it is not the system itself from which man gains his evil, it is his nature. Man is capable of evil whether or not he is a government official.

Remember, the Kingdom of God will not be on this Earth.

Its a commonly misinterpreted verse. Jesus said His kingdom is not of this world (meaning it does not issue from this world). But it is certainly in this world. Not only that, we are to pray that God's will be done "on earth as it is in heaven".

I prefer a voluntary government that doesn't depend on violence in order to keep itself in existence, but whatever floats your boat.

I don't have too much of an argument against that, other than I think it will never happen on this side of eternity (precisely because men are evil).

I mean, either voluntarism has given us the situation we have today or has been powerless to prevent it, as Pericles always points out. But I think voluntarism is a worthy goal for sure.

 

[Vessol]

Ah, okay. Are you a fan of Leo Tolstoy at all if I may ask?

 

[ClayTrainor]

So humans are inherently bad?

Yes.

Is this something that Christianity teaches? I only ask because this seems to be a pretty consistent belief among Christians I talk to.

 

[JoshLowry]

of course, but an embryo is not a human being. At the fetus stage it becomes more debatable, but an embryo is most definitely not equivalent to a human being.

Is that a scientific fact? What is the difference between a baby in the womb and an embryo?

Why is it any less debatable at an earlier stage in the pregnancy?

 

[realtonygoodwin]

Is this something that Christianity teaches? I only ask because this seems to be a pretty consistent belief among Christians I talk to.

http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/piper/depravity.html

Not all Christians believe this, but many do. Here is a good article explaining it.

 

[Fox McCloud]

I haven't fully formed a consistent philosophical "musing" on abortion yet, but I'm convinced that there is something I and a few others are overlooking in regards to it---it's not a cut and dry subject, especially considering there's a voluntary aspect about the whole ordeal which could imply and implicit contract with the embryo/baby.

In any event, regardless of my lack of ability to develop a full cogent theory on it, I'm convinced that abortion, at any stage, is a form of murder.

 

[Sola_Fide]

http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/piper/depravity.html

Not all Christians believe this, but many do. Here is a good article explaining it.

realtonygoodwin,

Are you Reformed? I read monergism articles all the time.

 

[Sola_Fide]

Is this something that Christianity teaches? I only ask because this seems to be a pretty consistent belief among Christians I talk to.

Yes, Christianity unequivocally teaches it. And not only that, the premise that men are evil has been a solid foundation for patriots in history to build a case against tyrants, and government power itself.

It is a GOOD thing to understand that men are evil by nature.

 

[realtonygoodwin]

realtonygoodwin,

Are you Reformed? I read monergism articles all the time.

Uhhh, I am leaning that way...over the last few months I have become more Reformed. Check out my blog for more info

 

[qh4dotcom]

1) Liberty
2) Taxes