What Is "The Gospel"?

A believer of whom, Jesus OR Paul?

Don't let truth stand the way of a fun made up story. ;) :D


"Christianity is the religion founded by Paul, which replaces Jesus' Gospel with a Gospel about Jesus - a religion that should rather be called Paulinism." -- Dr. Wilhelm Nestle, Church Historian


Your quote is stupid. Paul didn't contradict Jesus in a single syllable.
 
I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance
You missed a couple by skirting past this part.


  • Paul was not present for any of the events of Jesus' life nor did he hear his teachings personally - indeed, he was an enemy of Christ. Moreover, none of the New Testament had been written at that point.

Implication 0.1: The Gospel must therefore also exist outside the pages of Scripture.

Implication 0.2: This Gospel was preached to Paul prior to his being able to preach it.

Implication 0.3: Other people heard Paul's Gospel, received it, and took their stand on it, without the benefit of a codified New Testament.

Implication 0.4: The Corinthians believed in vain if they chose to reject this preaching and rely strictly on Scripture.

Implication 0.5: Paul was therefore teaching here that salvation depends not only on believing the Gospel, but on being connected to the correct preaching of it.


If these are all historical events (and you posit that they are), then you're stuck supporting the idea that in at least one historical case believers were saved because they heard preaching - not because they read and understood Scripture. By quoting this verse you are undermining Sola Scriptura.
 
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Homework time.........AGAIN.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en.....1ac.1.34.heirloom-hp..5.21.3001.z72CiP-oC_g

I'd hafta say that your first sentence stupid and wrong. Your second sentence is merely incorrect and just incredibly ignorant.

Clues for sale.


I already asked Jamesiv where Paul contradicted Jesus. He wouldn't give me any instances, and then challenged me to give one instance where Paul confirmed Jesus' teaching, so I happily did.

Can you post one time where you think Paul contradicted Jesus? Let's talk about it so everyone on the board can see it. Deal?
 
A believer of whom, Jesus OR Paul?

Don't let truth stand the way of a fun made up story. ;) :D


"Christianity is the religion founded by Paul, which replaces Jesus' Gospel with a Gospel about Jesus - a religion that should rather be called Paulinism." -- Dr. Wilhelm Nestle, Church Historian

You keep repeating this as if it were true. Christianity is specifically mentioned first in Acts-before Paul's ministry, and also before Paul's ministry in several non biblical sources.
 
I already asked Jamesiv where Paul contradicted Jesus. He wouldn't give me any instances, and then challenged me to give one instance where Paul confirmed Jesus' teaching, so I happily did.

Can you post one time where you think Paul contradicted Jesus? Let's talk about it so everyone on the board can see it. Deal?

Well, I could post one time but I much prefer to post ~422,000 times ....... once again.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en.....1ac.1.34.heirloom-hp..5.21.3001.z72CiP-oC_g

Take your pick(s).
 
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Proof That Paul Is An Apostle Of Satan

Published on May 24, 2013

A extensive study of the evidence proving Paul (Saul of Tarsus) to be a ravenous wolf and apostle of Satan.
Index
1. INTRO a) No evidence for God orchestrating the canon process or the bible b) Irrelevant that some of Paul's teachings line up with Yeshua and the true apostles
2. Evidence that the bible does NOT include all of God's inspired word 4:30
3. Falsehoods in scripture serve a purpose 5:20
4. Protestant bible's occult connection 7:25
5. Paul's different conversion stories 8:40
6. Paul acts differently depending on who he is with 12:50
7. Paul was taught directly from Yeshua himself 13:30
8. Compare Paul with Simon the magician 14:40 and 21:00
9. First stop - House of Judas 15:25
10. Pharisee (yeast), Roman (beast), tribe of Benjamin (wolf) 16:50
11. Claims for having seen Yeshua 20:45
12. Brags of; having superior knowledge; chosen by God; his gospel; works harder than the other apostles; tore the law down 23:00
13. Spiritual Father 26:10
14: Philemon owes Paul his ver soul 28:00
15: Apostle to the Gentiles 29:20
16. Martin Luther; dispensationalism; 2 Christ's; 2 Gospels; 2 paths to salvation; man of mockery; lying waters 30:50
17. We do NOT automatically recieve the Holy Spirit 36:50
18: Compare Paul's teachings to Yeshua and the true apostles 38:00
19. Paulinists; apostle of Satan; Damascus Document; Rev 12 (the dragon); protestant bible used to include the apocrypha; Paul worse than the Pharisees 42:00
20. Paul's Rotten Fruit; insults and attacks the other apostles 52:10
21: Food sacrificed to idols and Pauls connection to prophetess in Thyatira; promotes adultery 1:01:15
22. Unable to confess Christ as our Lord except by the Holy spirit is a lie (1 Cor 12:3) 1:11:20
23: 2 Peter 2:15,16 - Peter does NOT endorse Paul 1:18:35
24. Men no longer under the law, but women still remain under it 1:29:46
25. Final word; God breaks his covenant with the Church; recommended non-canonical books 1:34:23

The Epistle of Barnabas 8:10-14 tells us the number of Christ is 318. He explains that the first number (300) is represented by the Greek letter T (Tau), which represents the cross and the way by which we are saved. So the sign/mark of Christ is the cross. The next two numbers (10 & 8) are represented by the Greek letters I H, which are the first two letters of the name of Christ in the Greek language.

Now I put to you that the reason we are given the formula for the number of Christ is so that we can use the same formula to decipher the meaning of the number of the beast. Applying this same formula to the number 666 this then means the number 600 is the sign or symbol by which the beast will deceive the world. The numbers 66 then are separate from the number 600.

Now would you care to guess what the corresponding letter is for the number 600? How about the letter X. Know what the letter X stands for? To begin with, the symbol or letter X never appears in Islam's culture. So it has nothing to do with Islam. It is, however, prevalent in Christianity culture. How about Xian and Xmas for example, which stands for Christian and Christmas. Know where else we find the X? It happened to be on Constantine's military standard. We also find an X on the Vatican flag by way of two keys crossing one another.

Now that still leaves the number 66, which of coarse identifies the protestant bible. But some people might say I'm jumping to conclusions here with the bible. Well, in that case do the same thing with the Hebrew alphabet as we did with the Greek. We see here that the number 600 is represented by the Hebrew letter that sounds like mem in English and looks like a rectangle. Now what comes to mind when you think of a rectangle? How about a book? Books are almost exclusively printed in the form of a rectangle. And there is only one book in all the world that it's claim to fame is being made up of 66 books. Consider also that the Hebrew letter that looks like a rectangle sounds like mem. The corresponding English letter then is the letter M. Now consider what ancient text is used for the Protestant's OT canon. For it is the Masoretic text. The rectangle (symbol for book) is then identified by both the letter M and the number 66.

So the letter X from the Greek alphabet and the Hebrew letter that resembles a book, in addition to the number 66 and the Masoretic text all fit perfectly into Christianity being the religion that the beast will use to deceive the world. And the bible that he will use to deceive the world is the protestant bible. But because most Christians reject any book that isn't found in the bible, they will fail to recognize the antichrist and false prophet, since they will be using the book that they so treasure and hold dear to their heart. They also will not recognize the two witnesses mentioned in revelation due to the fact that they'll be preaching and teaching from books that most Christians condemn.
 
Ronin,

Pick one thing that you think Paul contradicted Jesus on and let's talk about it? Deal?
 
Ronin,

Pick one thing that you think Paul contradicted Jesus on and let's talk about it? Deal?

Jesus Says The Law Continues, But Paul Says No

CAVEAT: The Law given Moses applicable to "foreigners/sojourners" (Gentiles) is a relatively small set of moral commands primarily from Leviticus, incorporating most of the Ten Commandments. So if the Law given Moses applies to Gentiles, it is not a burdensome list. Yet, we are still applying literally the Law, just as James did in Acts 15, by treating the term "foreigner/sojourners" versus "Israel" as literally as possible. This distinction perfectly explains why James said circumcision does not apply to Gentiles, i.e., Leviticus 12:1-3 only requires sons of "Israel" to be circumcised. See this webpage where we discuss this issue in more depth.

Jesus's View on the Law
. Jesus emphasized the validity of the Law up through the passing away of Heaven and Earth, thus confirming its inspiration and ongoing validity. In Matthew 5:17-19 we read:

(17) Think not that I came to destroy the Law [of Moses] or the prophets: I came not to destroy, but to fulfil. (18) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the Law, till all things be accomplished [i.e., all things predicted appear on the stage of history]. (19) Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. (ASV)
Compare Luke 16:17 similarly says at a different time than the Sermon on the Mount -- meaning Jesus repeated the same point twice:
"It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law. (Luke 16:16-17 NIV.)
Thus, Jesus can never be accused of seducing any Christian from following the Law. Jesus cannot be a false prophet under Deuteronomy 13:5 (false prophet is anyone who has miracles and wonders but seduces you from following the Law). Jesus said the Law remained valid until the Heavens and Earth pass away. This passing of heaven and earth occurs at the end of the Millennium. This is 1000 years after Christ's Second Coming, according to the Book of Revelation.

Paul's View on the Law. Paul says the opposite.

Paul is blunt in Ephesians 2:15, Colossians 2:14, 2 Cor. 3:11-17, Romans 7:1-3 et seq, and Galatians 3:19 et seq. The Law is "abolished," "done away with," "nailed to a tree," "has faded away,' and was "only ordained by angels...who are no gods." If we were to cite Paul's condemnations of the Law in one string, the point is self-evident that Paul abrogated the Law for everyone. See Eph. 2:15 ("setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations"); Col. 2:14 ("having blotted out the bond written in ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us: and he hath taken it out that way, nailing it to the cross;") 2 Cor. 3:14 ("old covenant"); Gal. 5:1 ("yoke of bondage"); Rom. 10:4 ("Christ is the end of the law"); 2 Cor. 3:7 ("law of death"); Gal. 5:1 ("entangles"); Col. 2:14-17 ("a shadow"); Rom. 3:27 ("law of works"); Rom. 4:15 ("works wrath"); 2 Cor. 3:9 (ministration of condemnation); Gal. 2:16 ("cannot justify"); Gal. 3:21 (cannot give life); Col. 2:14 ("wiped out" exaleipsas); Gal. 3:19, 4:8-9 ("given by angels...who are no gods [and are] weak and beggarly celestial beings/elements").
Finally, in Romans 7:1-6, Paul claims when Jesus died, the husband died and this dissolved the Law's bonds between the husband (God of Sinai) and wife (God's people). This henceforth made the "law dead to us." (Romans 7:4.) This death-of-God-the-husband released the Jews, Paul contends, and when Christ resurrected the bonds of marriage with the old God were not renewed. (The implication, we contend, was Paul meant a new God emerges or otherwise if the same husband-God resurrected, why wasn't the bond to the Law renewed? Paulinists come near to admitting this is the only logical meaning while even confessing they are uncomfortable with the passage's 'seemingly' polytheistic explanation... Uggh. On our thorough analysis of Romans 7:1-6, see our webpage discussion.)
For more discussion on Paul's abrogation of the Law, see chapter five of Jesus Words Only excerpted at this link.
How do those devoted to every word from both Paul and Jesus resolve the contradiction? Here is a perfect example:
If [Jesus] is saying [in Matt 5:17 by saying He fulfilled the Law, and meant] he is the 'end of the Law' [as Paul taught in Romans 10:4], then why does he say in the next verse that the Law will never disappear? ...There is something exasperating about trying to understand a verse like this....What the verse seems to say contradicts what we know from other verses in the New Testament. The truth is we cannot be expected to understand this verse.

Bivin, David. Blizzard, Jr., Roy. Understanding the Difficult Words of Jesus: New Insights From A Hebraic Perspective (Destiny Image, 2001) at 113.

Incidentally, Bivin-Blizzard offer a Hebrew approach that Jesus' means by saying he did not come to destroy the Law means his interpretations will not weaken its meaning, and to fulfill means to make it more lasting. Even with that, Bivin-Blizzard realize they haven't removed the contradiction between Paul and Jesus.



.....
 

Great! After dozens of posts we finally get one of these "inconsistencies"!

Problem: So the idea is that Jesus said the law is binding until the end of time, and Paul says it is no longer binding.

Solution: Jesus is proclaiming the universal truth that all me are going to be judged by God's law in even the most minute detail. All men are going to judged by this law and most will be condemned by this law. When Paul says the law is not binding on a Christian anymore, he is saying that Jesus FULFILLED the law on their behalf, and it no longer condemns them. Jesus is preaching the condemnation of the law, Paul is teaching the fulfillment of the law for the elect. NO contradiction whatsoever!

Paul addressed this issue in Romans 3:31:
Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

Faith doesn't nullify the law. It CONFIRMS the law. Faith confirms that all men will be judged by the unyielding requirements of the law. The difference between the unbeliever and the believer is that the unbeliever will be judged by his own law keeping, and be condemned, and the believer will be judged by CHRIST's law keeping, and will be saved.

Also, after Jesus died, certain elements of the civil and ceremonial law passed away in Christ's fulfillment of them.





Okay. "Problem" solved. What's the next one?
 
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Great! After dozens of posts we finally get one of these "inconsistencies"!

Problem: So the idea is that Jesus said the law is binding until the end of time, and Paul says it is no longer binding.

Solution: Jesus is proclaiming the universal truth that all me are going to be judged by God's law in even the most minute detail. All men are going to judged by this law and most will be condemned by this law. When Paul says the law is not binding on a Christian anymore, he is saying that Jesus FULFILLED the law on their behalf, and it no longer condemns them. Jesus is preaching the condemnation of the law, Paul is teaching the fulfillment of the law for the elect. NO contradiction whatsoever!

Paul addressed this issue in Romans 3:31:


Faith doesn't nullify the law. It CONFIRMS the law. Faith confirms that all men will be judged by the unyielding requirements of the law. The difference between the unbeliever and the believer is that the unbeliever will be judged by his own law keeping, and be condemned, and the believer will be judged by CHRISTIAN law keeping, and will be saved.

Also, after Jesus died, certain elements of the civil and ceremonial law passed away in Christ's fulfillment of them.





Okay. "Problem" solved. What's the next one?

That's NOT what Jesus said.

Jesus is right, Paul is wrong.

Paul IS the problem.


quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by Ronin Truth
Did you manage to find a single syllable? If so, then what's the point? If not, then what's the point?
 
That's NOT what Jesus said.

Jesus is right, Paul is wrong.

Paul IS the problem.



Sir, you have no idea of how to read the Bible. There was NOTHING in those two presentations that contradicted each other, and all Christians know that this is the case.
 
That's NOT what Jesus said.

Jesus is right, Paul is wrong.

Paul IS the problem.



Paul was a salesman. The problem is not in reading Paul, though he's not my favorite author any more than any other salesman is. The problem is in not reading Jesus.

Sir, you have no idea of how to read the Bible. There was NOTHING in those two presentations that contradicted each other, and all Christians know that this is the case.

The Law was made to serve man, man was not made to serve the Law. I know this because Jesus told me so. Pharisees have trouble with that concept. Let Jesus into your heart and actively learn how to love the law for the kind of perfect society it could create, and you will finally see why and how the law serves man. Then you will know what you will have to know to help make Heaven Heaven.

And the way I read it, if you can't help make Heaven Heaven, you won't be let in. And I like the name of this forum, because if you can't make the Peace through Religion forum peaceful through your religion, well...
 
Paul was a salesman. The problem is not in reading Paul, though he's not my favorite author any more than any other salesman is. The problem is in not reading Jesus.



The Law was made to serve man, man was not made to serve the Law. I know this because Jesus told me so. Pharisees have trouble with that concept. Let Jesus into your heart and actively learn how to love the law for the kind of perfect society it could create, and you will finally see why and how the law serves man. Then you will know what you will have to know to help make Heaven Heaven.

And the way I read it, if you can't help make Heaven Heaven, you won't be let in. And I like the name of this forum, because if you can't make the Peace through Religion forum peaceful through your religion, well...

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to acptulsa again.
:( Sorry, brother.
 
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