what is the difference between traditional republicans and libertarians?

[LibertyEagle]

Gotcha.

So from your definition, how are big "L" Libertarians different from the globalists, who don't give a flip about Americans or this country? Or do they seem themselves as "world citizens"?

Are big "L" Libertarians primarily anarchists?

 

[Anti Federalist]

Gotcha.

So from your definition, how are big "L" Libertarians different from the globalists, who don't give a flip about Americans or this country? Maybe it's just me, but I take issue with letting people into this country who carry diseases that we had long eradicated, or to suck off my bank account, or who have absolutely no clue of what this country was founded upon.

Are big "L" Libertarians primarily anarchists?

Anarchists? No. I wouldn't say so. Volunteerists or market anarchists, perhaps. I consider myself one, within an agreed upon social construct.

This is important, and why I consider the border to be just as important as you do. A totally free market, voluntary society is incompatible with trade and immigration from a corrupt prison state, say, like China. It's apples and bowling balls.

And the difference between a "run of the mill globalist" and a purist libertarian is simple: the globalist has no trouble with or compunction against using government force to meet their goals. They will invade, wage war, sanction, restrict and imprison at will.

The libertarian position is just as simple, it is not the "Rights of Americans" but the rights of man.

 

[Truth Warrior]

LOL. If you didn't have some small hope that it could be, what are you doing here, supporting Ron Paul?

LewRockwell.com supports Ron too. HINT: "anti-state, anti-war, pro-market"

And Ron supports Lew. It's Ron's homepage. For further information, please kindly consult your local copy of Manifesto.

Any other questions?

 

[stewie3128]

*my topic was meant to read "what is the difference..."

i can only think of the pro-choice issue.

any others?

The historical point of departure is when Nixon took the US off the Bretton-Woods semi-gold standard in the early 70s, thus introducing completely fiat money. Party Republicans backed this (because it got us out of our bind with paying off a debt that France was calling in) and libertarians bolted it because it took us completely off a gold standard. After that, there was an actual Libertarian party.

As of 2008, an easy way to answer your original question is "What's the difference between a Republican and Thomas Jefferson." It's a matter of how large a role government should play in the everyday affairs of man. Party Republicans now believe that there is a larger role for the gov't than Libertarians, and this can be seen in Faith School subsidies, support for the existing welfare state, the War on Drugs/Terror/Poverty/Everything else, Pro-life, support for the existing tax code (more or less), support for existing currency... etc etc.

 

[Truth Warrior]

Gotcha.

So from your definition, how are big "L" Libertarians different from the globalists, who don't give a flip about Americans or this country? Or do they seem themselves as "world citizens"?

Are big "L" Libertarians primarily anarchists?

Nope, just pissed off Republicans.

 

[LibertyEagle]

The historical point of departure is when Nixon took the US off the Bretton-Woods semi-gold standard in the early 70s, thus introducing completely fiat money. Party Republicans backed this (because it got us out of our bind with paying off a debt that France was calling in) and libertarians bolted it because it took us completely off a gold standard. After that, there was an actual Libertarian party.

As of 2008, an easy way to answer your original question is "What's the difference between a Republican and Thomas Jefferson." It's a matter of how large a role government should play in the everyday affairs of man. Party Republicans now believe that there is a larger role for the gov't than Libertarians, and this can be seen in Faith School subsidies, support for the existing welfare state, the War on Drugs/Terror/Poverty/Everything else, Pro-life, support for the existing tax code (more or less), support for existing currency... etc etc.

The reader should keep in mind that libertarian-conservatives (traditional conservatives) DID NOT SUPPORT Bretton-Woods. Perhaps that is how you are using the term, "libertarian".

Also, please be careful about making generalized statements about Republicans, because it will end up being false.

 

[Alex Libman]

Republicans are nationalist socialist control freaks who use fear, war, racism, and patriotism to attract voters, in contrast to their conjoined twin the Democrats, who use welfare instead.

Small-l libertarians, on the other hand, believe in the philosophy of individual sovereignty. They see government as cancer - it is never good, but just as you are born with some harmless amount of cancer cells in your body, government may be impossible to get rid of completely. Being a libertarian means more than just what you do politically, it is an ethical standard for a person to live up to. Libertarian values include respect for other people's rights to life, liberty, property, and parents' rights, self-reliance, a win-win mentality, love of free-market capitalism, competition, and helping people by teaching them to fish (possibly on credit rather than for free) rather than making them dependent on free fish with socialist strings attached.

The big-L Libertarian Party (LP) is a big-tent political organization appealing to everyone from 100% principled libertarians (anarcho-capitalists) to people who are just a tad more libertarian than the Reps and Dems. It doesn't always try to destroy all government in all its forms, but rather tries to pull the country in a libertarian direction as much as possible in a given election. Like a healthy immune system keeping cancer in check, libertarian politics exist to keep government in check, and never cease fighting to shrink it as much as possible.

 

[Truth Warrior]

The "Libertarian Party" is an oxymoron.

For a libertarian example:

Statement of Purpose: Voluntaryists are advocates of non-political, non-violent strategies to achieve a free society. We reject electoral politics, in theory and in practice, as incompatible with libertarian principles. Governments must cloak their actions in an aura of moral legitimacy in order to sustain their power, and political methods invariably strengthen that legitimacy. Voluntaryists seek instead to delegitimize the State through education, and we advocate withdrawal of the cooperation and tacit consent on which State power ultimately depends.
http://www.voluntaryist.com/

 

[Kludge]

The "Libertarian Party" is an oxymoron.

For a libertarian example:

Statement of Purpose: Voluntaryists are advocates of non-political, non-violent strategies to achieve a free society. We reject electoral politics, in theory and in practice, as incompatible with libertarian principles. Governments must cloak their actions in an aura of moral legitimacy in order to sustain their power, and political methods invariably strengthen that legitimacy. Voluntaryists seek instead to delegitimize the State through education, and we advocate withdrawal of the cooperation and tacit consent on which State power ultimately depends.
http://www.voluntaryist.com/

Voluntaryism =/= libertarianism.

 

[Truth Warrior]

Voluntarism =/= libertarianism.

Correct your spelling.

 

[LibertyEagle]

Correct your spelling.

I thought Libertarians didn't believe in telling others how to live their lives?

 

[Truth Warrior]

I thought Libertarians didn't believe in telling others how to live their lives?

The error was a cause of an incorrect understanding. BTW, Libertarians don't mind at all, they vote too.

 

[LibertyEagle]

The error was a cause of an incorrect understanding. BTW, Libertarians don't mind at all, they vote too.

His misspelling wasn't infringing on your liberty, was it? If not, why try to get him to change HIS spelling?

If you think that Libertarians believe in dictating to others how to live their lives, I think you might have the wrong idea of Libertarianism.

 

[Kludge]

His misspelling wasn't infringing on your liberty, was it? If not, why try to get him to change HIS spelling?

If you think that Libertarians believe in dictating to others how to live their lives, I think you might have the wrong idea of Libertarianism.

LE, I feel like I should be citing every PM you've ever sent me.

 

[Truth Warrior]

His misspelling wasn't infringing on your liberty, was it? If not, why try to get him to change HIS spelling?

If you think that Libertarians believe in dictating to others how to live their lives, I think you might have the wrong idea of Libertarianism.

I believe that I explained that. I didn't FORCE him to do anything, now did I?

Did I violate the non-aggression principle? NO!

Do voters? YES!

I thought you were supposed to be some longtime guru in the Freedom Movement. If you have problems with the basic differences between Libertarian and libertarian, it does cause me to think that the wrong idea is not mine.

 

[Black Dude]

The principles are near the same. Unfortunately, the Republicans tend to be less educated. They also have different ideas on how they want their local and State government ran. A libertarian typically would want a hands-off approach at the local level, whereas the Republican wants conservative their conservative way of life protected.
It seems sometimes that Republicans are driven to act because they fear losing their conservative values, or they fear their community/state losing it. Libertarians tend to fear losing liberty.
My biggest concern is what is done at the federal level. The local and State level can decide on their own how they want to live their lives.

Classic Republicans and Libertarians should have nearly identical goals at the federal level. Unless I'm missing something.

 

[Truth Warrior]

The principles are near the same. Unfortunately, the Republicans tend to be less educated. They also have different ideas on how they want their local and State government ran. A libertarian typically would want a hands-off approach at the local level, whereas the Republican wants conservative their conservative way of life protected.
It seems sometimes that Republicans are driven to act because they fear losing their conservative values, or they fear their community/state losing it. Libertarians tend to fear losing liberty.
My biggest concern is what is done at the federal level. The local and State level can decide on their own how they want to live their lives.

Classic Republicans and Libertarians should have nearly identical goals at the federal level. Unless I'm missing something.

I believe that you are on the correct track.

Thanks!

 

[LibertyEagle]

LE, I feel like I should be citing every PM you've ever sent me.

LOL. I'm not a Libertarian and never said I was. Plus, I am a Moderator to carry out the forum guidelines on this PRIVATE PROPERTY called Ron Paul Forums.

 

[LibertyEagle]

The principles are near the same. Unfortunately, the Republicans tend to be less educated. They also have different ideas on how they want their local and State government ran. A libertarian typically would want a hands-off approach at the local level, whereas the Republican wants conservative their conservative way of life protected.
It seems sometimes that Republicans are driven to act because they fear losing their conservative values, or they fear their community/state losing it. Libertarians tend to fear losing liberty.
My biggest concern is what is done at the federal level. The local and State level can decide on their own how they want to live their lives.

Classic Republicans and Libertarians should have nearly identical goals at the federal level. Unless I'm missing something.

I also think this is pretty close.

 

[LibertyEagle]

I thought you were supposed to be some longtime guru in the Freedom Movement. If you have problems with the basic differences between Libertarian and libertarian, it does cause me to think that the wrong idea is not mine.

Noooooooooooo. No guru. In this for a long time, yes. But, we probably have a few differing principles, I'm guessing.

For the most party, I was kidding you though.

Note: Are you telling me that you don't think there is a difference between big "L" Libertarians and little "l" libertarians?