HVACTech
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What has Rand Paul *done* so far, for liberty?
- Thread starter ghengisconrad
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TheGrinch
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Two words: paradigm shift
Ron helped change the paradigm, and Rand continues to benefit from growing support for the things he wants to do. No one ever thought he was just going to enact change on his own. It takes time and support, but if the masses demand it enough, they do at least pretend to listen.
Ron helped change the paradigm, and Rand continues to benefit from growing support for the things he wants to do. No one ever thought he was just going to enact change on his own. It takes time and support, but if the masses demand it enough, they do at least pretend to listen.
Fascinating to me how little people comprehend Rand's strategy. Sure he goes along at times. He gives up some battles in order to win the war.
He exposes hypocrisy. He proposed increased military spending with corresponding cuts elsewhere. So-called conservatives won't support that because they want spending everywhere. Conservatives aren't conservative.
So-called supporters of Israel really don't. He proposed cuts to Israel's enemies and they are against it because they simply want more spending everywhere.
In addition, liberals aren't for civil liberties, or for less war.
Everybody wants more government everywhere.
Do people really believe the son of Ron Paul doesn't have a clue about liberty? What on earth do you think he was doing for all those years around his Dad?
Yes, sometimes Rand is inconsistent, but I just see him stirring things up trying to change the conversation, which he has.
He exposes hypocrisy. He proposed increased military spending with corresponding cuts elsewhere. So-called conservatives won't support that because they want spending everywhere. Conservatives aren't conservative.
So-called supporters of Israel really don't. He proposed cuts to Israel's enemies and they are against it because they simply want more spending everywhere.
In addition, liberals aren't for civil liberties, or for less war.
Everybody wants more government everywhere.
Do people really believe the son of Ron Paul doesn't have a clue about liberty? What on earth do you think he was doing for all those years around his Dad?
Yes, sometimes Rand is inconsistent, but I just see him stirring things up trying to change the conversation, which he has.
ghengisconrad
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When I said "Intention cannot be gained from my statement. It is (i hope) a mutually exclusive fact to supporting him or not"
What that means is, whether or not you support him, it is true that Rand's message is not as pure or educational as his father's, by a mile and a half. That fact is true regardless if you support Rand or not.
Rand Paul is not the model of Utopia. That is also true, regardless of if you support him or not. Rand is a master compromisor (read: politician)
I do, in fact, support the existence of a Rand Paul, and am quite excited by it. However, unfortunately, I find my excitement frequently outpaced by my ability to defend it
But the filibuster did elicit a response from the administration which for the first time acknowledged a limit in their ability to kill their own citizens with predator drones, which I consider a worthwhile accomplishment, and caused an immediate measurable shift in public opinion about the drone war.
Rand also played an important part in preventing the proposed bombing of Syria the summer before last, and generally bringing the question of the need for congressional authorization for presidential warmaking into the acceptable paradigm of public discussion. His pushing the envelope on issues like the drug war/incarceration rate/sentencing issues have helped prompt Obama/Holder to adopt relatively good stances on those issues. He has generally made libertarian-leaning views on many major issues "respectable" and expanded the Overton window in a liberty-oriented direction.
Sola_Fide
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When I said "Intention cannot be gained from my statement. It is (i hope) a mutually exclusive fact to supporting him or not"
What that means is, whether or not you support him, it is true that Rand's message is not as pure or educational as his father's, by a mile and a half. That fact is true regardless if you support Rand or not.
Rand Paul is not the model of Utopia. That is also true, regardless of if you support him or not. Rand is a master compromisor (read: politician)
I do, in fact, support the existence of a Rand Paul, and am quite excited by it. However, unfortunately, I find my excitement frequently outpaced by my ability to defend it
But your OP had to do with Rand's legislative accomplishments. When pressed about Ron's legislative accomplishments, you fell back on Ron's "consistent" message of liberty (which wasn't totally consistent as I showed).
Most of us here understand that Rand is not Ron, and Rand is not the perfect symbol of freedom that we would all like to be promoting. Rand is a bridge to those ideas though, and he is an ally to those ideas.
You get to choose if you think it's worthwhile to support him or not. If you are trying to vindicate Rand to your anarchist friends on the internet, you are going to fail. But many of us who have been involved in politics for a long time see Rand as way that we can educate people about freedom. Take it or leave it.
Moreso than even his father, he's made America's foreign policy and international presence a debatable topic within the Republican party. Did he end the GOP's standing as an interventionist/hawkish party? Far from it. But he has made questioning America's international presence something that can be debated, by trying to sell himself as 'reasonable' on foreign policy. It's much, much harder to pin the 'extremist' label on him in that regard, and have it stick, than on Ron. And it shows.
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eleganz
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whoisjohngalt
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Yeah, that just isn't true at all: http://www.businessinsider.com/rand-paul-filibuster-drone-polling-polls-2013-4
Changing public opinion is far more important than changing a law. A law that no one obeys is not a law and vice versa.
TheTexan
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Win at what, scrabble? I don't get it
RonPaul4Prez2012
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All I care is that the fed is audited
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