This is the heart of the matter. If one cannot realize his own sinful nature, then he will not see any need for forgiveness.
Such a person would be considered self-righteous.
What exactly is The Choice that Jesus offers to us all?
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This is the heart of the matter. If one cannot realize his own sinful nature, then he will not see any need for forgiveness.
Such a person would be considered self-righteous.
This is not necessarily true. Some people are born with various genetic/psychological disorders that prevent them from using their faculties of reason and/or conscience. What about these people?
Then by definition they could never sin, because sin requires freedom and full knowledge that what is being done is wrong. This is also why the Tradition holds that there is an "Age of Reason", commonly held to be about 7 years hold. Those under the age of reason cannot be guilty for their actions because they may not fully understand what we are doing (this is why if a three year old shoots their friend with a gun, they won't go to jail).
erowe1
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Incorrect.
Nowhere in the words of Jesus, nor anywhere else in the Bible, is the notion entertained at all of any innocent people being condemned to Hell or any other undeserved punishment.
But be honest with yourself. It's not some hypothetical innocent person who might be out there somewhere whom you want to be free from God's portending judgment, is it? It's you.
Sola_Fide
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Exactly.
TER
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Will the Non-Orthodox Be Saved?
by Metropolitan Philaret (+1985)
Question: “If the Orthodox faith is the only true faith, can Christians of other confessions be saved? May a person who has led a righteous life on earth be saved, while not being a Christian?”
Answer: “For He said to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that wills, nor of him that struggles, but of God who shows mercy” (Rom. 9:15–16). In the Orthodox Church we have the most direct and complete path of salvation indicated to us, and we are given the means by which a person may be purified and have a direct promise of salvation. In this sense St. Cyprian of Carthage says, “Outside the Church there is no salvation.” The Apostle Peter writes exclusively to Christians saying: “According as His divine power He has given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him that has called us to glory and virtue. Whereby are given unto us exceedingly great and precious promises: that by these you might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust” (2 Pet. 1:3).
And what should one say of those outside the Church, who do not belong to Her? Another apostle provides us with an idea: “For what have I to do with judging them that are without? You judge them that are within? But them that are without, God judges” (1 Cor. 5:12–13), having “mercy on whom He will have mercy” (Rom 9:18). The question, “Can the non-Orthodox, i.e. those who do not belong to Orthodoxy — the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church — be saved?” has become particularly painful and acute in our days. In attempting to answer this question, it is necessary, first of all, to recall that in His Gospel the Lord Jesus Christ Himself mentions but one state of the human soul that unfailingly leads to perdition — i.e. blasphemy against the Holy Spirit (Matt. 12:1–32). The Holy Spirit is, above all, the Spirit of Truth, as the Savior loved to refer to Him. Accordingly, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is blasphemy against the Truth, conscious and persistent opposition to it. The same text makes it clear that even blasphemy against the Son of Man — i.e. the Lord Jesus Christ, the incarnate Son of God Himself, may be forgiven, as it may be uttered in error or in ignorance, and subsequently may be covered by conversion and repentance. (An example of such a converted and repentant blasphemer is the Apostle Paul. See Acts 26:11 and 1 Tim. 1:13.) If, however, a man opposes the Truth which he clearly apprehends by his reason and conscience, he becomes blind and commits spiritual suicide, for he thereby likens himself to the devil, who believes in God and dreads Him, yet hates, blasphemes, and opposes Him.
Thus, man's refusal to accept the Divine Truth and his opposition to it makes him a son of condemnation. Accordingly, in sending His disciples to preach, the Lord told them: “He that believes and is baptized shall be saved, but he that believes not shall be condemned” (Mk. 16:16), for the latter heard the Lord's Truth and was called upon to accept it, yet refused, thereby inheriting the condemnation of those who “believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness” (2 Thess. 2:12).
The Holy Orthodox Church is the repository of the divinely revealed Truth in all its fullness and fidelity to apostolic Tradition. Hence, he who leaves the Church, who intentionally and consciously falls away from it, joins the ranks of its opponents and becomes a renegade as regards apostolic Tradition. The Church dreadfully anathematized such renegades, in accordance with the words of the Savior Himself (Matt. 18:17) and of the Apostle Paul (Gal. 1:8–9), threatening them with eternal condemnation and calling them to return to the Orthodox fold.
It is self-evident, however, that sincere Christians who are Roman Catholics, or Lutherans, or members of other non-Orthodox confessions, cannot be termed renegades or heretics—i.e. those who knowingly pervert the truth. The Greek word for “heresy” is derived from the word for “choice” and inherently implies conscious, willful rejection or opposition to the Divine Truth manifest in the Orthodox Church. They have been born and raised and are living according to the creed which they have inherited, just as do the majority of you who are Orthodox. In their lives there has not been a moment of personal and conscious renunciation of Orthodoxy. The Lord, “who desires all men to be saved” (1 Tim. 2:4) and “who enlightens every man born into the world” (Jn. 1.43), undoubtedly is leading them also towards salvation in His own way.
An inquirer once asked St. Theophan the Recluse if the non- Orthodox would be saved. The blessed one replied, “You ask, will the non-Orthodox be saved? Why do you worry about them? They have a Savior who desires the salvation of every human being. He will take care of them. You and I should not be burdened with such a concern. Study yourself and your own sins.”
georgiaboy
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So what if I lived in africa and I never came across the word of god? What about the people before jesus christ? Did they end up in hell automatically? sounds fair I guess
This is a common question, and one I had when I was first exploring Christianity.
The basic Christian and biblical teaching is that above all, God knows the hearts of everyone, across all time (yes, even before Jesus was born), and He judges them with infinite loving justice and mercy according to the measure of truth to which each has been exposed.
Once again, as others have stated, the choice is ours -- to respond by either accepting his loving forgiveness and Lordship, or to reject it.
Regarding the OP, there is no need to go all brimstone -- eternal separation from God will be hell enough and infinitely worse than physical burning. Little do we realize how much God is all around us even now, bringing mercy, blessing, and miracles into our daily lives, regardless of our acknowledgement of Him.
What's the saying? You don't know a good thing until it's gone...
Suzu
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Suzu
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wizardwatson
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That's pretty much what I believe. Of course Jesus says otherwise, if I'm reading right, but then I never know whether what I'm reading is true anyway, and that goes for more books than just the bible.
jmdrake
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The idea that hell lasts forever is Biblically debatable.
See: http://www.creation-science-prophecy.com/hell.htm
Eze 28:17-19
17Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
Revelation 20:14:
14 "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."
"Hell" is "Hades", which is the Greek translation for the Hebrew word "Sheol", means the "pit" or the "grave". The "Lake of Fire" may be the "Gehenna" that Jesus spoke of. The Lake of Fire (Gehenna) may represent everlasting destruction or a "cutting off"; therefore, Death/Hell/Hades, will no longer exist when it is cast into the Lake of Fire.
14 "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."
"Hell" is "Hades", which is the Greek translation for the Hebrew word "Sheol", means the "pit" or the "grave". The "Lake of Fire" may be the "Gehenna" that Jesus spoke of. The Lake of Fire (Gehenna) may represent everlasting destruction or a "cutting off"; therefore, Death/Hell/Hades, will no longer exist when it is cast into the Lake of Fire.
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dawnbt
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- (Paraphrasing Jesus) "Accept me as your savior, worship only me, or be condemned to Eternal Hell in the Lake of Fire!"
Questions:
1) Did Jesus actually offer that choice? (or very similar)
2) Billions of people are born and raised in other religions.
If an innocent person follows their parents religion, never accepting or bowing to Jesus, then they certainly are condemned to Eternal Hell in the Lake of Fire, correct?
Answer to #1...Yes. John 14:6 states, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." If you don't accept Jesus as Lord and savior, you do not see the Father in Heaven. Also John 8:24 ~ "I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.”
2) Many people raise in one religion converts to others. Many take the chance of being murdered by family in order to follow Christ. Matthew 24:14 states, "And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come." Not some nations, but all. All will have the opportunity to accept Jesus as savior, few will do so. God has promised us that, if we seek Him with all our hearts, we will find Him (Jeremiah 29:13). He is not eager for anyone to perish (2 Peter 3:9). “For there is no distinction between Jew and Gentile, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved” (Romans 10:12-13). We do not know how God is dealing with people in lands yet unreached by the gospel, but from Scripture we can see that He will never condemn anyone unjustly, but will be faithful to reveal Himself to anyone who looks for His salvation.
BuddyRey
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If I recall correctly, there's a book in the Christian Apocrypha (parts of the Bible that were denied inclusion, concealed, and outright discarded by religious and political authorities during early Christendom) that pointed to the possibility that Hell is only temporary; more like a way-station for souls that haven't actively sought reconciliation with God yet. In this scenario, eventually all of Creation (even the lowest, most wicked among men) will know the eternally forgiving embrace of the Creator again.
There has to be the possibility of an eternal Hell, because we must always have the freedom to reject the love of God. So long as we have that freedom, than an eternal Hell is always a possibility. This is also why Purgatory make sense, a place where one learns to fully love God in preparation for living with Him in Heaven.
TortoiseDream
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Did Jesus even exist? There were many historians around that time era, do any of them even mention him?
I've read a quote by Roman historian Tacitus that mentions Christ.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ
MelissaWV
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This poll, like so many others, is giving you the finger. I take this as proof of God. I also take this as proof that God isn't amused, and couldn't care less at the moment about any of this crap.
Life offers you the choice, constantly, of how you're going to act and represent yourself.
Life offers you the choice, constantly, of how you're going to act and represent yourself.
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