What could happen if Ron Paul doesn't win -- why it's so important that he does

[PrimarilyPaul]

Ensure this doesn't happen by registering as a Republican and voting in the primary. You can do this from abroad too.

http://www.primarilypaul.com/register

 

[Jodi]

I think that a good number of Ron Paul supporters are treating this election and his candidacy as a "last stand" of sorts. I know that I put my plans to move on hold to clear a debt I felt I owed this country for what she's stood for in the past. But as it goes, and this is going to be most brutally highlighted if (God forbid) it turns out to be Rudy v Hillary, it's looking like Ron Paul 2008 or bust.

I agree totally. I think that is why I get so emotional when I watch the youtube videos. I view Ron as a saviour for this country and if we don't get him in we are doomed. I WANT MY COUNTRY BACK!!!!!!

 

[AceNZ]

Ensure this doesn't happen by registering as a Republican and voting in the primary. You can do this from abroad too.

http://www.primarilypaul.com/register

I think that works only if you're still a resident of one of the states in the US -- which I'm not. Although I'm still a US citizen, I have permanent residency in NZ. I can still vote in the general election, but not the primaries.

Even so, that doesn't mean that people like me can't do other things -- donate, write letters/emails, etc -- which I have done and will continue to do.

 

[CJP]

They have somewhat high income taxes (19.5% to 39.5%) and a 12.5% goods and services tax (GST)

Sorry, 39.5% + 12.5% = 100% Socialist. You're better off here in the USA.

 

[AceNZ]

Sorry, 39.5% + 12.5% = 100% Socialist. You're better off here in the USA.

Really? Comparing apples to apples (highest tax bracket):

Income tax: 35%
Sales tax in California: 8.25%
State income tax: 9%
FICA: 6.2%
E-FICA: 6.2% (paid by your employer on your behalf)
Medicare: 1.45%

Total = 66.1% (59.9% not including E-FICA)

You could argue that the second / hidden 6.2% FICA shouldn't be included since it's paid by your employer, but that's money your employer could be paying you if they didn't have to pay the tax.

vs. 39.5% + 12.5% = 52% for NZ

Except in NZ, the taxes also cover basic medical care. Insurance costs of all kinds are a small fraction of the US costs, and true inflation rates are lower (inflation is another hidden tax). Property taxes are around 0.1%, there are no capital gains on the sale of your home, and there are no inheritance taxes. The government has actually been operating at a net surplus for the last few years.

Yes, both tax rates are very high. I'm philosophically aligned with RP's idea of abolishing the income tax. But until that happens, exactly how am I better off in the USA?

And if 39.5% + 12.5% is 100% socialist, then what is 35% + 8.25% + 9% + 6.2% + 6.2% + 1.45%? Would that be 100% Capitalist? Free market? Democratic? I don't think so.

 

[bootstrap]

last chance for liberty

It's not about nationalism, it's about liberty. At some point you have to abandon a nation as a lost cause because once it's at a certain point on the road to serfdom, there's no bringing it back. Government is a cancer that eventually kills liberty if not kept in remission. Some of us see the chances of getting our U.S. government back into remission as much slimmer than others...

Exactly. For the past two generations (at least), the people of the USSA allowed, and regularly BEGGED for the country to become elitist, statist, fascist, socialist, authoritarian, totalitarian. Those of us who were pro-liberty their entire lives were ignored at best, and usually trashed for holding these views, and for warning about zooming past the point of no return (to liberty).

What matters is liberty, not history and not geography. I refuse to subject myself to national ID card, personal RFID implants, travel by permission, no paper-trail electronic voting machines, indefinite imprisonment without trial, thought crimes --- and the endless stream of totalitarian impositions being added daily. No way! No way I will fight and die to save modern americans --- the most dishonest, intentionally blind, stupid, corrupt, anti-liberty, anti-individualist creatures in the history of the universe. No, I am definitely leaving the USSA next summer, and no way I shall ever return unless Ron Paul is elected, and begins to turn the tide. The people of the USSA have had more than enough chances to see what was happening and do something about it. Make no mistake, this is the LAST chance for the USSA. And to everyone who honestly cares about liberty; elect Ron Paul 2008, or --- abandon ship! No kidding. I am.

 

[AceNZ]

No, I am definitely leaving the USSA next summer, and no way I shall ever return unless Ron Paul is elected, and begins to turn the tide.

Hopefully free travel, free movement of money and property out of the country and emigration will still be legal next summer.... The way things are going, it's not obvious that it will be.

Did you ever see that Ralph Nader talk where he mentions that some congressmen were afraid to go ahead with impeachment hearings against Bush and Cheney because they had been signalled that if they did, Bush would attack Iran, declare marial law and suspend elections. Impossible? In a rational society, perhaps.

 

[justinc.1089]

Eh I hate the idea of leaving my home country, even more because it has been the hope for freedom, liberty, and democracy in the modern world through recent times, but I also hate what it has become and how the people here are betraying what America has stood for to the world through time.

I know it will be extremely saddening to me to see AMERICANS leaving and moving to other countries the way we sometimes see people from other countries trying so hard to get here for a better life because I know the Americans moving away will be doing so for the exact same reasons.

However, if it gets bad enough I myself may consider moving away. At least I could look back and know the people did it to themselves. But if I do ever leave for those reasons, before I do, I will let every person that has caused it know how I feel and thank them for their ignorance, apathy, and general stupidity. Then when things really get bad, they will realize our stances were right afterall.

 

[AceNZ]

Eh I hate the idea of leaving my home country, even more because it has been the hope for freedom, liberty, and democracy in the modern world through recent times

You're kidding, right? America has been the source of huge amounts of suffering all of the world in recent times. The murder of over 5 million Vietnamese, over 1 million Iraqis, support of dictatorships worldwide, etc, etc.

I think most Americans have been brainwashed by public schooling into believing their country is a "hope for freedom", when in fact it's exactly the opposite.

 

[ClayTrainor]

Im canadian, and if ron paul doesnt get the presidency im honestly gonna chill in canada right up until i hear about the NAU coming into effect (which will happen without RP) and then im out... i dont know where i'll go, but i will not take part in the NAU... i want nothing to do with that crap... i want to go somewhere where people just live without interference from the government... wherever that may be.

 

[James R]

Imagine a scenario where Ron Paul doesn't win the nomination and the presidency, but comes close. What will happen then?

IMHO, we're pretty close to living under a dictatorship

Not remotely true. In Russia there have been over 10 journalists murdered by Putin in the past year. Now THAT is a dictatorship. In the US that type of thing is very rare. Our freedom of press is the most important thing we have and we seem to have a very strong freedom in that regard. I also think that many Russians have some like for brutal dictators. So in a way they deserve it.

 

[justinc.1089]

I don't mean really recent times, like the past 40-50 years, I mean over the past centuries. America was the first truely free and democratic government afterall.

 

[justinc.1089]

Not remotely true. In Russia there have been over 10 journalists murdered by Putin in the past year. Now THAT is a dictatorship. In the US that type of thing is very rare. Our freedom of press is the most important thing we have and we seem to have a very strong freedom in that regard.

Thats because Putin takes the dumb approach of fighting the media, where our corrupt leaders take the approach of being paid off by the media so that they work together to do whatever they want.

 

[Man from La Mancha]

This would happen to well into all the primaries, which would mean that there should be at least 10 million or more people for Ron. Ron said he couldn't run as an independent because he isn't a billionaire. Think again 10 million people x $100 = $1 billion, bingo





....copy,paste,linked to teaparty07.com , either one, only 1 million people at $100

 

[user]

Is it time to start the Free Country Project? But what would be a good candidate? Not Switzerland anymore.

 

[James R]

Thats because Putin takes the dumb approach of fighting the media, where our corrupt leaders take the approach of being paid off by the media so that they work together to do whatever they want.

That, and we have many CIA agents working in the media according to former CIA employees. Which is why the internet is completely taking over media. What has the government done to censor the Ron Paul Forums?

 

[user]

I don't mean really recent times, like the past 40-50 years, I mean over the past centuries. America was the first truely free and democratic government afterall.

I know what you mean but please read the essay linked to in my sig

 

[justinc.1089]

Don't think they're not working on censoring this somehow.....

I'm sure Homeland Security has us tapped and part of the 325,000 terror suspects.

I think talking about leaving America is giving up too soon though. I mean we still have Ron Paul afterall.

AND we will be able to elect more people into the government after this election.

 

[DealzOnWheelz]

All it takes is Bush declaring martial law


but I don't think the military would act against the people

 

[justinc.1089]

The police would though for the most part. That is at least the crazy gunho swat type ones.