Welcome to the New AmeriKa

[CCTelander]

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I found this interesting:



Freedumb.

 

[ClaytonB]

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I found this interesting:



Freedumb.

How is it dumb?

If you can't speak/read English, then you don't have a legal CDL, period. And no way should you be driving around 80,000 pound trucks on the road.

 

[CCTelander]

How is it dumb?

If you can't speak/read English, then you don't have a legal CDL, period. And no way should you be driving around 80,000 pound trucks on the road.

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I see, so fishing expeditions are just A-OK with you?

Ever heard of the 4th Amendment?

A weigh station is supposed to weigh. not engaged in fishing expeditions to find those evil "not like mes."

And fines are to be paid "on the spot" or face arrest? Please. Could this be any more like a bunch of road pirates?

 

[ClaytonB]

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I see, so fishing expeditions are just A-OK with you?

Ever heard of the 4th Amendment?

A weigh station is supposed to weigh. not engaged in fishing expeditions to find those evil "not like mes."

And fines are to be paid "on the spot" or face arrest? Please. Could this be any more like a bunch of road pirates?

Well, to be blunt, you're reciting standard Deep State counter-liberty ju-jutsu. First, construct a strawman of liberty, then apply it to the least important issue(s) you can think of, then when libertarians don't agree (because the proposal is obviously stupid), snap back, "What, you don't actually care about liberty???"

Sure, in an ideal world, the Federal government should have nothing to do with CDLs. But I can think of approximately 1 trillion other issues of higher priority in terms of Federal overreach. We need to arrange the issues roughly in priority order if there is to be any hope of actually slaying the Leviathan. Start with personal liberties first, then the home, then the community, and then more diffuse issues like commerce, infrastructure, and so on. As long as the Military Commissions Act is on the books, the Federal government believes it has the power (even though, under the Constitution, it does not) to seize any American citizen without a warrant -- let alone charges -- and imprison them indefinitely in an undisclosed location, without even a writ of habeas corpus hearing. As long as that law is on the books, we are effectively living under martial law. Yeah, CDLs are also an issue, but they are zillions of times less important than things like repealing/striking down the unconstitutional MCA, Patriot Act, NDAAs and the whole raft of tyrannical legislation that was passed in the wake of 9/11. After we remove the US government's power to disappear any American, at whim, into the American gulag system, we can revisit other, lower-priority issues.

As for the fourth amendment, your ability to speak/read English doesn't fall under that. The Federal government should not be inspecting trucks but State governments have authority under the Constitution to regulate commerce in their State, which includes commercial trucking. If you're operating a truck privately, put "NOT FOR HIRE" on the side and in some states you no longer have to go through inspection/weigh stations. Weighing is an inspection. And patrol officers have every business ensuring that commercial truck traffic is properly licensed. In Libertopia, we would hopefully have private systems for handling these kinds of access/thoroughfare types of issues but, for now, a monopoly traffic department is what we have. So given that's what we have, let's follow the rules. In the meantime, rather than bickering over whether the police should be able to ask illegal truck drivers to speak some English to show they actually took and passed the CDL test, let's focus on actual liberty issues like, I don't know, END THE FED, restore habeas corpus, strike down the MCA and Patriot Act, pardon Snowden, etc...

 

[acptulsa]

Sure, in an ideal world, the Federal government should have nothing to do with CDLs.

This doesn't appear to be federal. This appears to be a homegrown effort by the Clinton State, Arkansas. It's a player because it sits just about right in the middle of Interstate 40.

It'll be interesting to see how it plays out, considering states have hewn to the constitutional allowance of free travel. Trucking has had to deal with state length, weight and axle loading laws all along, but licenses issued by one state have heretofore been honored by all.

 

[CaptUSA]

Well, first.... this is an Arkansas state law.

https://www.thv11.com/article/news/...o-law/91-a5078587-24dc-4dfa-a80c-f8a805f772db

LITTLE ROCK, Ark. — The rules of the road require you to read and understand the signs on the road.
"The English language proficiency requirement has been a part of that since the 1930s, so this is not necessarily a new development," Arkansas Trucking Association (ATA) President Shannon Newton said.
Newton said that the regulation has long been set under the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA). However, she said the rule hasn't been regularly enforced.
"There are actually some some Mexican CDLs that we had learned would been acquired fraudulently and were being presented," Newton said.
That's when Newton and state legislators gathered to create House Bill 1745, now known as Act 604.
"We could codify the federal regulation, which would allow both state police and local law enforcement to write citations for being not proficient in the English language," Newton said.
Before this bill, only highway police could enforce the standard. Now, all law enforcement agencies have the authority to hold drivers accountable.
"There's 100 or so different things that they look at at these weigh stations, from brakes to tail lights," ARDOT Public Information Officer Dae Parker said. "If it's deemed that a driver, he or she, may not be understanding them well, or something in that exchange gives them the indication they're not understanding conversing well in English."
While it adds more to the plate of law enforcement, one truck driver said it's worth it.
"I like it because there are some people that don't speak our language, cannot read the signs, and if we're going into a place that's dangerous and they're carrying any kind of hazmat or cosmetic material, that's endangering themselves and the public," Jodie Patton said.
Along with English proficiency, "certain commercial driver license holders must possess a U.S. work authorization to operate a commercial motor vehicle in the state."
Not meeting that criteria comes with a cost.
"A $500 fine for the first offense and a $1,000 fine for any subsequent offense after that," Newton said.
The ATA said this new Arkansas bill adds to an executive order signed by President Donald Trump last month.
"That announcement by President Trump actually was the solution that kind of alleviated the concerns that we had brought," Newton said. "The driver will no longer be able to operate the equipment if he is not proficient in the English language, which is a big win for safety, for driver advocates and for the advancement of this policy."

 

[TheTexan]

Good fuck them immigrants

 

[TheTexan]

A weigh station is supposed to weigh. not engaged in fishing expeditions to find those evil "not like mes."

So... a weigh station is not already a fishing expedition?

If the state has a legitimate interest in making sure trucks are under a proper weight, it seems they would have a legitimate interest in making sure drivers of heavy machinery on public roads can read road signs.

The simple fact that there in fact enough drivers on the road that can't speak english to even cause this to be an issue, should be the alarming thing about this story...

 

[PAF]

So... a weigh station is not already a fishing expedition?

If the state has a legitimate interest in making sure trucks are under a proper weight, it seems they would have a legitimate interest in making sure drivers of heavy machinery on public roads can read road signs.

The simple fact that there in fact enough drivers on the road that can't speak english to even cause this to be an issue, should be the alarming thing about this story...

It's extortion.

The company/driver has insurance in the event of damage to person/property. There is no reason/excuse for "pre-crime" fines/regulation.

Example: I know very limited Spanish, and I still drive in Mexico and other countries. I know just enough to get by to read/interpret signs. If anything unfortunate happens, I am insured. Whether they are Americans, tourists or immigrants, nobody goes out of their way to be in an accident.

 

[Voluntarist]

I found this interesting:



Freedumb.

They test for writing English too? I would think that anyone writing while they're driving would be arrested for distracted driving - it'd be like texting while you're driving (not something you'd want a big rig driver to be doing).

 

[TheTexan]

It's extortion.

The company/driver has insurance in the event of damage to person/property. There is no reason/excuse for "pre-crime" fines/regulation.

It's not just about property. It's about people's lives.

They're dragging up to 40 tons of cargo behind them.

There is a legitimate interest in making sure its done safely, before people are killed.

I've seen it argued before that people should have the right to fire randomly in a crowd while blindfolded. As long as noone gets hurt, that's fine right? No victim no crime?

 

[PAF]

It's not just about property. It's about people's lives.

They're dragging up to 40 tons of cargo behind them.

There is a legitimate interest in making sure its done safely, before people are killed.

I've seen it argued before that people should have the right to fire randomly in a crowd while blindfolded. As long as noone gets hurt, that's fine right? No victim no crime?

1 ton, 10 tons, 40 tons, it's all risky business. Let the business and insurance companies worry about that.

 

[TheTexan]

1 ton, 10 tons, 40 tons, it's all risky business. Let the business and insurance companies worry about that.

Ok well get back to me when insurance companies can restoratively compensate a person's life.

 

[TheTexan]

Simple fact of the matter is, laws like this would never have been made if we didn't have so many goddamn immigrants.

You want your 4th amendment restored? That's not gonna happen while this country is at war with itself culturally.

 

[PAF]

How come there isn't a thumbs down option where the Like button is?

The problem is American's have made the 4th [and other] Amendment "optional".

 

[TheTexan]

How come there isn't a thumbs down option where the Like button is?

The problem is American's have made the 4th [and other] Amendment "optional".

I don't know why it's a controversial opinion that cultural equilibrium leads to fewer violations of freedom, and the reverse also being true.

Such a thing should be self evident?

So yes, Americans fucked up this country well enough on their own without immigrants, but massive immigration sure as shit isn't making it any easier to fix things.

 

[PAF]

I don't know why it's a controversial opinion that cultural equilibrium leads to fewer violations of freedom, and the reverse also being true.

Such a thing should be self evident?

So yes, Americans fucked up this country well enough on their own without immigrants, but massive immigration sure as shit isn't making it any easier to fix things.

Government created the manufactured immigrant "problem". With the help of "if you see something, say something" Americans. Then they started saying "immigrant stole my job!!!" What job? The cotton and peaches picking and garbage men jobs? Is that what they're so concerned about? Enough to shred the Bill of Rights???

It's not like the immigrants are "stealing" bank teller and white collar jobs, FFS.

 

[TheTexan]

Government created the manufactured immigrant "problem".

What are you trying to say, that immigrants wouldn't have come here if it wasn't for government? Or that there aren't cultural differences between Americans and immigrants?

Because both of those things are pretty obviously false, so it's not clear what precisely the point is you're trying to make.

With the help of "if you see something, say something" Americans. Then they started saying "immigrant stole my job!!!" What job? The cotton and peaches picking and garbage men jobs? Is that what they're so concerned about? Enough to shred the Bill of Rights???

It's not like the immigrants are "stealing" bank teller and white collar jobs, FFS.

When did I ever say anything about jobs? Them "taking our jobs" is not my concern. If you think that's what I've been saying, then you've entirely misunderstood my point as well...

 

[PAF]

What are you trying to say, that immigrants wouldn't have come here if it wasn't for government? Or that there aren't cultural differences between Americans and immigrants?

Because both of those things are pretty obviously false, so it's not clear what precisely the point is you're trying to make.



When did I ever say anything about jobs? Them "taking our jobs" is not my concern. If you think that's what I've been saying, then you've entirely misunderstood my point as well...

Where I'm from and grew up, there are Italian sections, German sections, Lebanese sections, etc., and sections where they comingle. We never had issues like what's going on now. Everybody either minded their own business, or more commonly worked well together.

You got these communist bastards screaming "they stole my job!!!". The next thing that happened was government thought "hell, if they get so worked up over "they stole my peaches picking and garbage men jobs!", let's write a bill to pay for transporting immigrants in! That way they will really get worked up, and we the government and the lobbyists can pass so many laws and government contracts and strip of them of their Rights, they won't even blink twice!".

I don't have hatred in my blood like you and AF do. Certainly not when government creates every problem that exists.

 

[TheTexan]

Where I'm from and grew up, there are Italian sections, German sections, Lebanese sections, and sections where they comingle. We never had issues like what's going on now. Everybody either minded their own business, or more commonly worked well together.

Well, you're kind of proving my point. People naturally prefer to congregate with, and have a higher trust with people from the same culture.

The fact that there were "sections" is proof of this point.

That naturally means, that people have a lower trust of people not from their culture.

It's when cultures are forced to mix is when it causes problems, which is what is happening in America today.

The sudden mixing of cultures has historically always lead to mistrust and violence.

Which is why those "sections" formed to begin with.

You got these communist bastards screaming "they stole my job!!!". The next thing that happened was government thought "hell, if they get so worked up over "they stole my peaches picking and garbage men jobs!", let's write a bill to pay for transporting immigrants in! That way they will really get worked up, and we the government and the lobbyists can pass so many laws and strip of them of their Rights, they won't even blink twice!".

It's never been about the jobs. It's about the culture. Cultures have historically existed separate from each other for pretty good goddamn reasons. They have different values. Different customs. Different laws. When cultures collide it invariably leads to conflict and violence, and winners and losers.

I don't have hatred in my blood like you and AF do. Certainly not when government creates every problem that exists.

I don't hate these people. I just don't want them in my country. I respect them as individuals, and I respect their culture. But if they don't respect our culture, I don't want them here. And if they can't be bothered to learn a lick of English before coming here, they can just go back to wherever the fuck they are from.

I myself have considered moving permanently abroad, and I wouldn't do that without making a serious committed effort to learning their language before I did so, because respect for a person's culture is a big part of building trust and mutual respect.

These fuckers that come here don't even bother with that because they don't give a single shit about our culture.