We Urgently Need To Revert To Classical Economics

Collecting tax a socialistic racket? Wow. We must have a very Marxist government in power right now then. Wow. I never knew that. :)

Which kind of government is in power is irrelevant.

rack·et
noun
1. […]
2. A dishonest business or practice, especially one that obtains money through fraud or extortion.

Since taxation is extortion, collecting tax is a racket. Regardless of the brand of statism.
 
Since taxation is extortion, collecting tax is a racket. Regardless of the brand of statism.

Do not be silly. Taxation is NOT extortion or theft. The taxation has to be right and tax extracted from the right point. That is from community created wealth to pay for community services. Taxing the individual, or production, is not the right place to collect tax.
 
Do not be silly. Taxation is NOT extortion or theft. The taxation has to be right and tax extracted from the right point. That is from community created wealth to pay for community services. Taxing the individual, or production, is not the right place to collect tax.

What wealth does the community create besides infrastructure that can easily be done by individuals.
 
tax extracted from the right point. Taxing the individual, or production, is not the right place to collect tax.

Taxation is the levying of tax.

I've highlighted the actions in the quote above: "extracted", "collect".

By whom and how does the process of extracting or collecting happen?
 
Do not be silly. Taxation is NOT extortion or theft. The taxation has to be right and tax extracted from the right point. That is from community created wealth to pay for community services. Taxing the individual, or production, is not the right place to collect tax.
lol! Of course it's extortion and theft. Who would pay if it weren't for the threat of force? Speaking of being silly!:rolleyes:
 
Do readers realize the original post is arguing for the total socialization under govt. rule over every real assets on the planet? Plus this article is written as a classic "either - or argument." There is only two choices so you must chose one. IMO - This piece stinks of one world view propaganda. Pheww!
 
I'm referring to the collectivist dogma of "natural liberty rights" to ALL land, all of which is collectivized and considered to be "common wealth". That has nothing to do with LVT, and everything to do with the rationale used here for it, which I reject outright.

You confuse common rights and collective rights. Classical liberals embraced common rights.
http://geolib.com/sullivan.dan/commonrights.html

"Socialist Confusions
The classical liberal distinctions between land, labor and capital were greatly confused by socialists, and particularly Marxists, who substituted the fuzzy abstract term, "means of production," for all three factors. They also blurred the distinction between common property and state property, for socialists believed, as royalty also believed, that they were the people.

Today, the confusions between land and capital and between state property and common property are shared by socialists and royal libertarians, and only classical liberals keep these distinctions clearly defined. Yet royal libertarians frequently duck the land issue by charging that it is the classical liberals, not the royal libertarians, who have embraced socialist ideas."

http://www.wealthandwant.com/docs/Sullivan_RL.html

You said it backwards. We're talking about whether geoism is a violation of the free market, not the other way around. The part I put in bold is the violation, all of which gets obfuscated and rationalized away with tortured logic by geoists (e.g., "land is a natural monopoly", "It doesn't matter whether it's a thousand owners or a single owner", "the supply of land is fixed" -- referring to the total geographical area in existence, not the economic definition of supply -- "LVT doesn't involve regulation", etc.,).

Having a government enforce restitution for theft is not a violation of free market principles. I'm sure you would not consider it a violation of the free market when a court demands a citizen pay stealing his neighbor's car or setting fire to his house.

Classical liberals did not simply prefer LVT to other forms of taxation, they believed it was perfectly compatible or even a requirement for a free market.

Albert Jay Nock:
"He [Henry George] was the only one of the lot who believed in freedom, or (as far as I could see) had any approximation to an intelligent idea of what freedom is, and of the economic prerequisites to attaining it....One is immensely tickled to see how things are coming out nowadays with reference to his doctrine, for George was in fact the best friend the capitalist ever had. He built up the most complete and most impregnable defense of the rights of capital that was ever constructed, and if the capitalists of his day had had sense enough to dig in behind it, their successors would not now be squirming under the merciless exactions which collectivism is laying on them, and which George would have no scruples whatever about describing as sheer highwaymanry."
http://www.wealthandwant.com/themes/Nock.html



I don't care about Fred Foldvary,

Too bad. He is one of the smartest and most consistent libertarian economists alive today.

but if you're for the abolishment of zoning law, great. But that brings me to another point. People raise objections about LVT, and most of the geolibs I encounter pull an Obamacare-like attitude in response. "Establish it first, then we'll work to perfect it." To me that's worthy of a smack-down all by itself. If a Geoist wants to impress me, pave the path to LVT by calling for things that eliminate the objections FIRST.
Universal Individual Exemption? WHY is that not being called for NOW? Where are the LVT advocates when it comes to tax exemption amounts for "good enough land to live on" AS A STARTING POINT. An LVT regime is not required for that.
Abolish zoning laws? Any reason why that can't be eliminated NOW? The ECO's in favor of LVT would shit themselves in vehement opposition, because for many of them that's the biggest advantage to LVT. Preserve the Earth, and force humanity into an artificially smaller "eco-footprint". Meanwhile, artificial scarcity drives up land values.
What about enterprise zones, abatements, special exemptions, grants and crony favoritism? Where are all the geoist voices on this when it comes to property taxes - as a matter of principle? Silence. Crickets. Which is not surprising given that some LVT sites actually TOUT enterprise zones, abatements, grants, etc., as USEFUL TOOLS under a geoist regime.

How are those issues going for you right now? Obviously you aren't going to end zoning laws, income taxes, and cronyism with the State as it is right now. You need a path towards deconstructing the State. I have stated several times that I believe the LVT can play a major role in putting us on the road towards freedom.
More from your pal Foldvary:

"Land value taxation would also result in a substantial reduction in the cost of government. The administrative cost of land value taxes would be less than that of existing property taxes (which require a greater inspection of buildings and improvements), and the cost of enforcing income and sales taxes would be eliminated. By improving economic growth and allowing workers to keep all the money they earn, land value taxation would result in higher incomes, reducing the demand for government welfare programs. Decentralization, privatization, and the elimination of wasteful government programs would further reduce the amount needed to fund government. ..."

Henry George on the direct effect of the LVT:

"1. It [LVT] would dispense with a whole army of tax gatherers and other officials which present taxes require, and place in the treasury a much larger portion of what is taken from people, while by making government simpler and cheaper, it would tend to make it purer." - Henry George

"(d) The unjust distribution which is giving us the hundred-fold millionaire on the one side and the tramp and pauper on the other, generates thieves, gamblers, and social parasites of all kinds, and requires large expenditure of money and energy in watchmen, policemen, courts, prisons, and other means of defense and repression. It kindles a greed of gain and a worship of wealth, and produces a bitter struggle for existence which fosters drunkenness, increases insanity, and causes men whose energies ought to be devoted to honest production to spend their time and strength in cheating and grabbing from each other. Besides the moral loss, all this involves an enormous economic loss which the Single Tax would save.
" - Henry George


And while we advocate the LVT we, at the same time, advocate the elimination of taxes on rightfully earned wealth, the end of imperialism, and protection of free speech. Just because I oppose the Drug War does that mean I support it until the LVT is in place? Of course not. But having the LVT would make ending the Drug War much easier.



That's precisely how the income tax got it's nasty foot in the door. And like I said, it doesn't really matter if the land value appraisal is nuts on, because the government decides the MULTIPLIER. I don't care about anyone's best intentions, because I live in the real world. I know that with most property taxes, the taxing jurisdictions set their budgets FIRST - tax later accordingly (by adjusting valuations and mill rate multipliers) to meet that budget. The actual "valuation" is just to determine each taxpayers proportion. The amount actually levied (usually by the multiplier, not the valuation) is subject to annual revision.

In other words, lets forget about ANY attempts at tax reform for the government will always find a way to abuse it. Sure.


Which it usually is. States and local governments are usually under no obligation to publish exemptions and favoritism, and most of the public doesn't think it doesn't affect them, or else isn't any of their business either way. Measure 2 proponents played hell trying to get information on exempted property under FOIA, and most taxing jurisdictions dicked them around, and were not forthcoming. The LOCATION AND OWNERSHIP OF LAND is practically impossible to avoid. That's not the same thing as the tax, as property taxes (which include LVT) are already avoided to the tune of billions.

There are several ways to ensure the LVT system is not taken advantage of. For example, there are software-assisted crosschecks. On top of that, Geoists want all assessments open to scrutiny. So if you question how much Wal-Mart next door is paying in the tax you can go to the local office and see how it was calculated.


It was a perfect, because while governments do not generate physical land, they can effectively "hand it out" by simply declaring an area an "Enterprise Zone". That's just one way it can "generate land".

And no geoist advocates "handing it out".
 
Income Tax was a temporary tax introduced by the British Tory government to fund the Napoleonic wars. Prior, taxes came from land. In 1692 Parliament introduced a national land tax. This tax was levied on rental values and applied both to rural and to urban land. No provision was made for re-assessing the 1692 valuations and consequently they remained in force well into the 18th century.

The Tory Party were the party of landowners. The saw the opportunity to push taxation from their lucrative acres to to working, productive people via income tax. They had the thin edge of the wedge in and and rammed it in gently over 100 years to the point little taxation was coming from land. As a result the richest people in the UK are landowners living on unearned income. Clear theft.

^Truth
 
Common property is an oxymoron.

At least address the article directly.

Common Property vs. Collective Property

A parallel confusion exists between common property and collective property, and the classical liberal concept of common property has been all but obliterated. An open park perhaps comes closest to the idea of common property, for anyone has an equal right of access to the park. However, restrictions on what one may do in a park, to the degree that they are arbitrary, render the park a collective property.

A government maintenance building, on the other hand, is truly a collective property. Nobody is granted a right to trespass except on government-sanctioned business. This is another distinction blurred by socialists, who refer to "common property," but who propose to put that property under the control of governments, collectives, and majorities.

Common Property and Common Law

Prior to the degeneration of common-law communities into feudalism, land other than royal estates (government property) was held, not collectively, but "in common." This meant that any person had a right to take up land and use it, and in so doing, hold it in his exclusive possession for as long as he continued using it. The limit to this right was that he could not hold land out of use, nor take up so much as to deprive others their own right to similarly take up land. "Lords" (literally "great people") were given responsibility to serve as land stewards, and to settle disputes over access to land. (The royal family name "Stuart" is an early spelling of "steward.")

http://geolib.com/sullivan.dan/commonrights.html
 
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Which kind of government is in power is irrelevant.
Which kind of tax is levied is certainly relevant.
rack·et
noun
1. […]
2. A dishonest business or practice, especially one that obtains money through fraud or extortion.

Since taxation is extortion, collecting tax is a racket. Regardless of the brand of statism.
Nope. Land value taxation is a voluntary, market-based, beneficiary-pay, value-for-value transaction, not extortion.

The services and infrastructure that make land valuable are publicly provided.

It is therefore indisputably the private landowner who engages in a racket, obtaining money through extortion, as I already proved in post #6 in this thread. The value of land is identically equal to the minimum value of what the landowner expects to extort from society and not repay in taxes. To claim that requiring the landowner to pay for what he is taking is "extortion" is nothing but a bald lie, and a stupid one.

Stop telling such stupid lies.
 
Lie.

Common property is simply property held in common, like the village commons of ancient Celtic tradition, which every household in the village had a right to use part of. See rbp's explanation for more details.
 
Which kind of tax is levied is certainly relevant.

Nope. Land value taxation is a voluntary, market-based, beneficiary-pay, value-for-value transaction, not extortion.

The services and infrastructure that make land valuable are publicly provided.

It is therefore indisputably the private landowner who engages in a racket, obtaining money through extortion, as I already proved in post #6 in this thread. The value of land is identically equal to the minimum value of what the landowner expects to extort from society and not repay in taxes. To claim that requiring the landowner to pay for what he is taking is "extortion" is nothing but a bald lie, and a stupid one.

Stop telling such stupid lies.

So if I do not pay nothing happens? Also what happens if we abolish public funding for infrastructure.
 
OK, so all land, including privately owned land, is considered "commonwealth", which belongs to everyone (but only collectively).
Lie. It belongs to no one, but everyone has equal rights to use it. You just permanently refuse to know that fact. You just won't permit that fact to enter your brain, no matter how clearly or how many times it is explained to you.
Other scarce resources, like ore, fossil fuels, water, and even bandwidth in the electromagnetic spectrum, would also be considered common wealth, and part of the definition of "land" subject to a Land Value Tax.
And a severance tax if they are depletable.
Under LVT, the state, or taxing jurisdiction, behaves as a for-profit, profit-maximizing land-owning corporation,
Wrong. It is more like a non-profit charitable trust that spends all its revenue on mandated endeavors. There is revenue, and spending, but no one pocketing any profits.
which is in the business of renting out titles to parcels of land within its jurisdiction.
It administers them as a trustee would, in the interests of the trust beneficiaries (i.e., all resident citizens).
Every individual citizen is considered an equal shareholder (of a single share which may not be bought or sold) of this incorporated entity.
No, individuals simply have equal human rights, which the trust is mandated to secure and reconcile. They are not part-owners of a corporation, have no right to its revenue, profits or assets, etc.
LVT rental fees (LVT levied) which are paid to the state are said
...by the honest and informed...
to recapture "community created value", or economic land rents, which are collected by the state on behalf of the everyone -- collectively only -- in the community.
No, the rents are recovered on behalf of every INDIVIDUAL whose rights the landowners have abrogated. It's no more "collective" than any trust.
The Universal Individual Exemption (if actually provided for), would be considered a Community Shareholder Privilege - a mechanism for providing "just compensation" that is owed to each individual who has been deprived of their natural liberty rights to use land which they are excluded from using in common. The Universal Individual Exemption acts as an LVT Credit, which each individual can apply toward any land, but which is sufficient in itself for "enough good land to live on". Also, like any corporation, dividends might also be paid out directly to community shareholders from the land rent profits.
More or less. Congratulations on not lying for a whole paragraph.
Sounds like a Collectivist Land Rental Commune to me.
No, of course it doesn't, so you are lying again, as usual. You just got through explaining how it is like a corporation, not a commune. You are merely using the word, "commune" dishonestly, as a way to fabricate a spurious, false connotation that LVT resembles communism. Most readers understand a "commune" to be a group of people who live together, hold land and capital in common ownership, and share the fruits of their labor in common, like the Israeli kibbutzim. But as you are fully aware of the fact that LVT implies no such arrangement, you are just being dishonest again. As usual.
A socialistic monopolistic racket.
You just got through saying it was like a corporation. Are you saying that corporations are socialistic monopolistic rackets? That will be news to Austrian School capitalists.
 
So if I do not pay nothing happens?
No, what will probably happen is that someone else will be willing to pay for the privilege of excluding others from the land, and you will then be among the others who are excluded, rather than the one doing the excluding. You would be well advised to sell off any fixed improvements before that happens.
Also what happens if we abolish public funding for infrastructure.
It will decay, land rents will decline, and the economy will stagnate and decline as private interests cannot invest efficient amounts in public goods.
 
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What wealth does the community create besides infrastructure that can easily be done by individuals.
If infrastructure could easily be done by individuals, it would be. It isn't.

A lot of the wealth that crystallizes as land value comes from services like police and fire protection, public education and health care, courts and security of contracts, supervision of corporate governance and the monetary system, maintenance of public trust and confidence, etc. Think of it as social rather than physical infrastructure.
 
If X could easily be done by individuals, it would be. It isn't.

X could be about anything nowadays.

If the government took over shopping malls, you'd use this argument to say that shopping malls wouldn't exist if the government didn't run them.
 
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