We Urgently Need To Revert To Classical Economics

There is no responsibility to participate in governments or any other collectives.
Yes, there is, because the only way to repay your heritage is by your posterity. Reneging on your responsibility to pay your debts to your benefactors is not only childish and selfish, it's greedy, dishonest and sociopathic.
I'm not being dishonest.
You are indisputably being dishonest.
Society doesn't exist, only individuals do.
No, that's just another repetition of the same stupid lie on your part. Society indisputably exists. You could with equal "logic" claim that molecules don't exist, only atoms. Or beehives don't exist, only individual bees. It's just stupid, absurd, dishonest crap, and the only reason you are saying it is to justify the atrocities you intend to commit in your slavering, ravenous, sociopathic greed to obtain unearned wealth by violating others' rights.
Society is just a concept, individuals interacting with one another.
Again, you know that is a lie. Individuals also interact with one another online, but that is not society. Any good dictionary can tell you what society is, in terms that make clear it exists just as much as molecules and beehives exist.
My words are intended to justify and enable freedom, not atrocities.
No. Your words are intended to rationalize, justify, and enable the enslavement of billions of human beings, and the murders of around 15 million of them EVERY YEAR, for no reason but your own desire for unearned profit.
 
Somalia isn't stateless.
It is most definitely stateless, though like all stateless societies it is moving toward feudalism.
People there are subjugated to violent gangs who rule them without their consent (i.e. states).
No, that is not what a state is, as any good dictionary could inform you, if you were willing to be informed, which you are not. The definition you gave is one definition of anarchy: the rule of a thousand tyrants. You are just lying about what a state is, because you have already realized that Somalia proves your beliefs are false, stupid, and evil.
 
I do not believe in community property rights or taxes.
Then you do not believe in justice, which cannot exist without community property rights in what the community produces, and you do not believe in civilization, which cannot exist without taxes.
And land belongs to whoever is on it first.
Why? Why not whoever sees it first, or whoever names it first, or whoever pisses on it first, as dogs claim their territories?

Of course, your claim is just objectively false. Human beings have never recognized a property right in land simply on the basis of first arrival. Never.

Why don't you just stop making false, absurd, stupid and dishonest claims, and find a willingness to know facts?
 
No, that's just another repetition of the same stupid lie on your part. Society indisputably exists. You could with equal "logic" claim that molecules don't exist, only atoms. Or beehives don't exist, only individual bees. It's just stupid, absurd, dishonest crap, and the only reason you are saying it is to justify the atrocities you intend to commit in your slavering, ravenous, sociopathic greed to obtain unearned wealth by violating others' rights.

Molecules physically exist.
Beehives physically exist.
Individuals physically exist.
Society does not physically exist.

Again, you know that is a lie. Individuals also interact with one another online, but that is not society. Any good dictionary can tell you what society is, in terms that make clear it exists just as much as molecules and beehives exist.

It's a community, which doesn't physically exist, it is a concept.
 
Under a strict Lockean or Rothbardian definition of property rights, the ONLY way to own land is to USE it.
How would that confer a right forcibly to remove others' rights to use it by violent, aggressive physical coercion? It seems to me that if you are using a natural resource that others want to use, you have already had your turn, and it is now someone else's turn.
This is called homesteading.
But more honestly and accurately, it is called, "stealing."
If you use it you own it.
So if you swim in a river, you own it?

If you use the earth's atmosphere to carry toxic gases away from your chemical plant, you own the atmosphere?

I don't think so. Try again.
If not, others can homestead it.
How would they have any more right to remove others' rights than you did?
Others cannot use what is already in use.
Of course they can. Why wouldn't they be able to? Our ancestors certainly did so for millions of years, exercising their natural liberty rights to sustain their own lives and those of their families -- until greedy, thieving parasites figured out that they could steal everything others produced indefinitely into the future by just forcibly removing their liberty to use the land.
Does this make sense to you or am I just typing for my keyboard?
It makes no sense because it implies absurd conclusions, as proved above.
 
Molecules physically exist.
Beehives physically exist.
Individuals physically exist.
Society does not physically exist.
Society indisputably physically exists, as any good dictionary would be able to inform you, if you were willing to be informed, which you are not.
It's a community, which doesn't physically exist, it is a concept.
Of course the community physically exists, just as molecules, beehives and individuals exist. Get that stupid Margaret Thatcher $#!+ out of your head.
 
Workers receive a wage for extracting resources and others receive a wage for transforming them into intermediate or final goods. The cost is included in the final goods and counted in GDP. This does not seem like denial to me.
Then where is the part about where the resources came from, and who was paid for them, and why?

You have just changed the subject completely, and are now talking about labor, not land or capital.

Denial doesn't get much more ambitious than that.
 
<yawn> What, another lying ninny who claims "the community does not exist"?

Let's just put what you believe back up on the big screen again, all stripped nekkid so everyone can see:

Justice cannot exist without community property rights in what the community produces. - Roy LVT Hive Manifesto

It's nighttime, soldier ant, and I think I hear your queen calling. Shouldn't you be herding and milking caterpillars, or fast asleep in a dirt mound somewhere?
 
Substitute public for private, and out of your own words you are denounced:
No, those are now your words, not mine, and they are of course just stupid, evil lies. Stop lying.
It's true that greedy, evil, parasitic public rent seekers,
BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT. Lie. Unlike the private appropriation of publicly created land rent, the public recovery of PUBLICLY CREATED land rent is not parasitic, because the economic advantages the rent is paid for COME FROM the services and infrastructure government provides and the opportunities and amenities the community provides -- i.e., FROM THE PUBLIC -- not from the nothing the private landowner provides.

Strike One.
being the vicious, cowardly filth that they are, will always try to use the state to create and enforce their rent seeking privileges to rob and enslave the honest and productive.
BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT. Another lie. Paying land rent does not and cannot enslave the honest and productive, because it is a voluntary, market-based, value-for-value transaction. The honest and productive pay the same land rent either way (except that under LVT + UIE, they don't have to pay it up to the exempt amount). The difference with LVT is that they don't ALSO have to pay taxes on their productive economic activities in order to support a wealthy, greedy, idle, privileged, parasitic landowning class. They no longer have to pay for government TWICE in order to enable landowners to pocket one of the payments in return for nothing. LVT therefore indisputably RELEASES the honest and productive from their part-time slavery as taxpayers, liberating them from bitter bondage -- and that's aside from the universal individual exemption, which makes them ABSOLUTELY FREE to use land without paying anyone else anything, ever -- a liberty they can never enjoy under the system of landowner privilege and parasitism.

STRIKE TWO.
Yep. LVT, and you, to a tee.
BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT. Another stupid, evil lie, as proved above.

That's Strike Three, pumpkin. You're Out.
I am thoroughly convinced that you would not have been opposed in principle to slavery or slave ownership prior to its abolition, any more than you are opposed in principle to private landownership or rent-seeking behavior now.
<yawn> I guess that depends on what your definition of "in principle" is. If slave title deeds no longer enabled their owners to compel the labor of "their" slaves by force, or otherwise remove their rights without making just compensation (like the "slaves" in high school "Slave Days" -- do they still have those?), then they would be an empty shell rather than an actual privilege, like private land title deeds under full public rent recovery, and the injustice would be gone. It's true that I don't waste my time and energy opposing empty formalisms when there is so much genuine evil, injustice and oppression to oppose.

So maybe you are right -- if by opposing slavery "in principle" you mean opposing high school Slave Days.
That isn't your concern at all.
Lie. I have consistently opposed all privileges that stimulate rent seeking behavior (which public recovery of publicly created land rents does not), as it is wasteful.
You would accept slave ownership in principle then,
High school Slave Days.
just as you accept landownership in principle now,
Lie. I have proved many times that land cannot rightly be owned, so STOP LYING about what I have plainly written. Ownership in principle must include all four basic property rights -- exclusive possession, control of use, benefit, and disposition -- and I do not accept the latter two of those rights wrt private land titles.
your only concern centering around the notion of "just compensation" and equal (socialized) public access to "unearned" wealth.
Lie. Stop lying about what I have plainly written, and explained to you very clearly and patiently many times.
 
Let's just put what you believe back up on the big screen again, all stripped nekkid so everyone can see:

Justice cannot exist without community property rights in what the community produces. - Roy LVT Hive Manifesto
<yawn> It is indisputable fact. If the community has no property right in the value it produces, it will be taken by someone who didn't produce it (i.e., in practice, landowners). They will get something for nothing, while the community that produced the value will get nothing for something. That is by definition not justice.
It's nighttime, soldier ant, and I think I hear your queen calling. Shouldn't you be herding and milking caterpillars, or fast asleep in a dirt mound somewhere?
Evil, dishonest filth beneath contempt.
 
I do not believe in community property rights or taxes. And land belongs to whoever is on it first.

Land belongs to the state. They have sovereignty. You have title deeds - a set of rights.

Understand how values came about in land. The landowner never made them - the community did. LVT leaves land ownership alone. LVT does not tax the property on the land (the buildings - Capital), it reclaims the community created economic growth that soaked into the land crystallizing as land values. Realistically it does NOT tax the land or buildings on it.

If men can claim land, given by nature, can they claim the air we breathe as well, which is given by nature? Can they claim the oceans?

In ye olden tymes, you only occupied land if you made full productive use of it, otherwise it went back to the community. Then no one can hoard land and speculate and manipulate land markets - making money for doing nothing. But LVT say keep the land, stay on it. We reclaim our community created value, even on unused land. So the speculators cannot leave land for 20 years to drive up land values they cream off by doing NOTHING.

LVT is a brilliantly elegant solution that appeals to all. Oh BTW, it also eliminates Income Tax.
 
Under a strict Lockean or Rothbardian definition of property rights, the ONLY way to own land is to USE it. This is called homesteading. If you use it you own it. If not, others can homestead it. Others cannot use what is already in use. Does this make sense to you or am I just typing for my keyboard?

I am sure Roy full understands that. So what you are advocating is a Feudal system.

Being just a tax shift, LVT leaves all alone. Land ownership stays the same. If you want to own 50 acres on the edge of city hoping the city will expand and your land's value increased 100-fold, then do it. But you pay a levy on that land by its value, whether a building is on it or not, or whether crops or on it or not. Currently landowners pay ZERO. Currently, Mr Big-Moneybags can land bank to his hearts content and hold land back inside cities that could otherwise be used for the people in the city. LVT will make him use the land productively or finacially make him sell to someone who does.

Then Mr Big-Moneybags can spend his money on doing soemthing productive and use some enterprise.

Harmful land speculation is stopped. Parasites are rolled back. Money and effort is used for productive uses.
 
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<yawn> It is indisputable fact. If the community has no property right in the value it produces, it will be taken by someone who didn't produce it (i.e., in practice, landowners). They will get something for nothing, while the community that produced the value will get nothing for something. That is by definition not justice.

Spot on!
 
Workers receive a wage for extracting resources and others receive a wage for transforming them into intermediate or final goods. The cost is included in the final goods and counted in GDP. This does not seem like denial to me.

Factors of Productiuon:

LAND - made by nature and all its resouces, inc, air, seabed, seas, ectromagnetic spectrum, etc.
CAPITAL - all man made things, inc money.
LABOR - men's efforts

The resouces of Land (ores, oil, etc) were NOT made by men, nature gave that. It is Commonwealth.

Workers (Labor) extract resources, using tools (Capital). Other workers (Labor) transform the resouces to Capital in goods using machines (Capital). The resouces (Commonwealth) were obtained free.

Geonomics puts a levy on the resources that were extracted to pay for community services. This reduces, or elimiates, Income Tax. This gives more money to people to buy the products.
 
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