We Need to Change Our Strategy for Influencing or Converting Others: (New Short Version!)

[hazek]

"Ron Paul is too old to be president".

"Ron Paul isn't presidential material, therefore, I won't waste my vote on him".

Please apply your personal approach to managing these statements, rather than Stefan Molyneux's, since Molyneux's personal thesis is to walk away from voting entirely. Thank you.

You need to dig deeper when you get statements like these two. For instance when they say he is too old you ask what do they mean. Do they mean his physical strength? Do they mean mental capacity? Do they mean he is old fashioned? Basically find out the reason someone would make that statement but don't argue against it. Remember his age is a fact towards which that person has a negative belief about and you can't change the fact but you can change his belief.

Once you identified what the person actually meant and let's say he says "he is too old fashioned" which tells you that this person thinks that being old fashioned is a negative thing in their mind, it's their negative belief about how the world works. They feel that if an old fashioned person would run the country they'd suffer more then if someone more modern did it and now if you want to change that you need to turn it around.

So I'd basically start with saying "ok but look at Obama, he is young and modern, but he is causing all kind of problems, the spending has gone into the records, deficit, wars, blablabla" basically you have to show them how much pain their current belief that old fashioned is bad has caused them in the past, is causing them now and will cause them in the future. Once you have them starting to build up the pain and when they think through it, you can then present a new belief "old fashioned is good!" You can say "look the guy may be old fashioned but he has an over 20 years old record if consistently voting inline with his rhetoric, no matter how unpopular the subject he sticks with his principles, he is super conservative when it comes to spending, not just public but in his private life too, and it's just what this country needs. Can you imagine if he had a president who'd tell people the unpopular things they need to hear in order to get out of this mess, blablabla". I think you get the point.

So in summary:
-don't argue the fact (he is old, no he isn't really that old = irrelevant)
-figure out what they mean with their statement
-try and associate a lot of pain in the past, present and for future with their current belief
-introduce a new belief and reinforce it with pleasure, especially for the future


Of course while you're trying to have them feel pain you may run into some other beliefs that they wont associate pain with like you do, so it's very good to have a general idea about how that person thinks the world should look like.

 

[Sentinelrv]

Thank you for considering those of us with less than expansive attention thresholds, and for including an abridged version of your text.

I'm sorry that the short version was still too long/complex to illicit my interest, perhaps you can narrow it down to one sentence, or maybe just a single character?

[/SARCASM]

Your thoughts and information are very interesting, but also quite esoteric.

I don't know if it's my reticular activating system at work, but I'm focusing on some other things at the moment.

What's your problem? We're all here trying to have a meaningful discussion. I've taken out a lot of my own personal time to write this, share it with others in order to help them realize things they might not have known about themselves. I've also kept up with this thread in order to work with others in figuring out ways to help Ron Paul. You came in here and basically insulted me for no reason. Your original post had this tone in it like you felt that you were above reading things that are too lengthy, that you are somehow superior and do not require new knowledge. Then you say "I didn't continue," which made the post sound even worse. I'm here trying to help people and your post seriously felt like a slap in my face. I didn't write a short version because you lack intelligence. I wrote it because people were telling me it was too long for the casual passerbys, so I created two versions in order to benefit as many people as possible. I did it to help people. I don't know what your problem is, so I'm sorry that I can't help you.

 

[speciallyblend]

short version, register republican and become a delegate then apply what you like from this article!!

 

[Petar]

What's your problem? We're all here trying to have a meaningful discussion. I've taken out a lot of my own personal time to write this, share it with others in order to help them realize things they might not have known about themselves. I've also kept up with this thread in order to work with others in figuring out ways to help Ron Paul. You came in here and basically insulted me for no reason. Your original post had this tone in it like you felt that you were above reading things that are too lengthy, that you are somehow superior and do not require new knowledge. Then you say "I didn't continue," which made the post sound even worse. I'm here trying to help people and your post seriously felt like a slap in my face. I didn't write a short version because you lack intelligence. I wrote it because people were telling me it was too long for the casual passerbys, so I created two versions in order to benefit as many people as possible. I did it to help people. I don't know what your problem is, so I'm sorry that I can't help you.

If it makes you feel any better, I often wonder what the fuck is wrong with me too.

Now keep up the good work soldier.

 

[Sentinelrv]

You need to dig deeper when you get statements like these two. For instance when they say he is too old you ask what do they mean. Do they mean his physical strength? Do they mean mental capacity? Do they mean he is old fashioned? Basically find out the reason someone would make that statement but don't argue against it. Remember his age is a fact towards which that person has a negative belief about and you can't change the fact but you can change his belief.

Once you identified what the person actually meant and let's say he says "he is too old fashioned" which tells you that this person thinks that being old fashioned is a negative thing in their mind, it's their negative belief about how the world works. They feel that if an old fashioned person would run the country they'd suffer more then if someone more modern did it and now if you want to change that you need to turn it around.

So I'd basically start with saying "ok but look at Obama, he is young and modern, but he is causing all kind of problems, the spending has gone into the records, deficit, wars, blablabla" basically you have to show them how much pain their current belief that old fashioned is bad has caused them in the past, is causing them now and will cause them in the future. Once you have them starting to build up the pain and when they think through it, you can then present a new belief "old fashioned is good!" You can say "look the guy may be old fashioned but he has an over 20 years old record if consistently voting inline with his rhetoric, no matter how unpopular the subject he sticks with his principles, he is super conservative when it comes to spending, not just public but in his private life too, and it's just what this country needs. Can you imagine if he had a president who'd tell people the unpopular things they need to hear in order to get out of this mess, blablabla". I think you get the point.

So in summary:
-don't argue the fact (he is old, no he isn't really that old = irrelevant)
-figure out what they mean with their statement
-try and associate a lot of pain in the past, present and for future with their current belief
-introduce a new belief and reinforce it with pleasure, especially for the future


Of course while you're trying to have them feel pain you may run into some other beliefs that they wont associate pain with like you do, so it's very good to have a general idea about how that person thinks the world should look like.

Very good stuff. While I was at work, I was thinking about this question and trying to figure out how to apply it practically. What I did was I took the two statements and I tried to dissect them to figure out the underlying values and beliefs driving them. Here they are again and my analysis below them.

"Ron Paul is too old to be president".

"Ron Paul isn't presidential material, therefore, I won't waste my vote on him".

Definitions:
Means Value: The vehicle used to reach the ends value. People value methods of achieving a goal differently.
Ends Value: The emotional state itself, which is the end goal.

Underlying Beliefs & Values:
Root Belief: Old people are not capable of running a country.
Positive Means Values: Younger president
Negative Means Values: Older president
Positive Ends Values: Certainty, Security, Trust, Confidence in leadership
Negative Ends Values: Uncertainty, Insecurity, Distrust, Doubt in leadership

Now, I probably should have suggested like you did to question the person further without arguing to find out if that was the real root belief. Maybe the root belief I extracted from the two statements is wrong, so further questioning would probably help in accuracy. Anyway, with the person's underlying beliefs and values laid out, we can use them to figure out a solution to the problem.

In this case, we would want to leverage the existing values of the person in order to push our agenda. First we'd need to figure out something to say in order to link Ron Paul with their positive values of security, certainty, trust and experience, maybe detailing his vast experience and proven voting record showing he puts his principles first. Then you'd attempt to link the current president and all the competing candidates with their negative values, such as uncertainty, insecurity, distrust, doubt, picking out specific examples or dirt we dug up on these people in order to prove these points.

That's not a word for word practical example, but it shows you how you can pull apart an argument in order to figure out how to use it against them. How does this sound to you Hazek?

 

[hazek]

Sounds good except you have it backwards. You need to first build up pain about their current belief and only if you are successful and the pain becomes too much will they be willing to change it and that's when you present the new belief with positive affirmations.

 

[Sentinelrv]

Sounds good except you have it backwards. You need to first build up pain about their current belief and only if you are successful and the pain becomes too much will they be willing to change it and that's when you present the new belief with positive affirmations.

Yeah, I didn't even realize I did that, so thanks for pointing it out.

 

[NewName]

Patterns are scripted NLP for a specific effect. Patterns are easy to use without needing to fully understand much NLP. We can search for useful patterns that people have already written and we can write new ones. Each apparently useful pattern should be "field tested" by going out and talking to someone and saying it to make sure it actually works, then a list of tested patterns can be made that people can use.

Here's a little more about patterns: http://www.grassrootsnlp.com/book/free-nlp-patterns/free-nlp-patterns-techniques

Here are some pattern examples: http://www.thenlpcompany.com/techniques/using-nlp-hypnotic-language-patterns/

Another important thing is "ecology," making sure that the beliefs you are changing are going to work correctly with the person's other beliefs, or else they can have emotional trouble with conflicting beliefs. So a list of patterns should take into account that other beliefs would also need to be changed for the person's belief ecology.

This is a good point:

Resistance Is A Sign Of Insufficient Rapport

In NLP we say that wherever your communication meets resistance, this is an indication that you do not have sufficient rapport with the person who is "resisting".

http://www.transformations.net.nz/trancescript/political-ecology.html

I wrote a bit about rapport in the other post:

Look into rapport and "pacing and leading," which are very important techniques. Rapport is basically the feeling that the people know each other really well and feel like they are on the same side. If you are in rapport with someone they will be more likely to favorably consider the things that you say. There are techniques for building the feeling of rapport quickly in other people. One is "assuming rapport" by treating the other person like a good friend and if it works they follow the pattern of responding by feeling like they're good friends with you. Pacing and leading is basically matching (pace) something of the other person like ideas/posture/movement/behaviors/everything/anything/etc and they will then start to subconsciously follow your ways that are similar to their own, and then you slightly change your behaviors/ideas/etc incrementally to lead them to where you want. You can't make it too obvious or sudden though, like copying every movement they make or they will probably be offended/feel bad/break rapport with you.

 

[rich34]

I've thought about this myself and after thinking about it over the last few years I believe we have to convince them that we're "good little republicans" and when they bring up the likes of Palin, Romney, Gingrich etc... be like yeah they're not to bad and all, but really at this point in time with all the economic chaos going on around us we need a guy that is DEAD serious about doing the things he says he's going to do and only Ron Paul brings this to the table. Then point to his impeccable record in the house as evidence that only he is the guy that can deliver on the things we want. Also we have to be educated on our opponents stances and no them well for when they come back and say well, but I like Palin and she says the same thing, but we then need to point out that Palin supported the bank bail out. Romney, Romneycare, Huckabee and his immense raising of taxes etc.. Obviously we have to absolutely tone down our rhetoric because it seems from experience that really turned people off. Lets just explain the facts in a calm cool manor and even agree with "their" candidates on some issues (even if you don't) just to get them to listen to Dr. Paul's message. I'm telling you guys the truth we really have to be very slick in order to win this time around and doing the things above I think will definitely help.

 

[pacelli]

Thanks Hazek, Sentinel, and NewName for tossing these two most-common RP objections around and chewing on it with a mind toward practicality. If RP declares, we absolutely MUST tweak our overall grassroots marketing approach from 2007-08, because throwing snowballs and yelling and marching obviously was good enough to get 5%, even with the ineptness of the campaign & RP's motivational issues.

If we're going to expect a different result in 2012 (thus avoiding the oft-quoted definition of insanity), we'll need to learn from the past and evolve our approach to shoot for an improved outcome.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

How would you practically employ your theoretical construct to appeal to someone that believes the following?

"Ron Paul is too old to be president".

They said the same thing about Ronald Reagan, and we have here a candidate even better and more principled for the people than even Reagan, who Ronald Reagan himself personally endorsed. Ron Paul is a doctor, an obstetrician who still runs every day, he is probably healthier than your average 30 year old, and he might just outlive me.

"Ron Paul isn't presidential material, therefore, I won't waste my vote on him".

Our 21st century definition of 'Presidential Material' was foisted upon us by big corporate media, and brought us such Presidents as George W. Bush, and Barack H. Obama. By most ways of looking, they really are two of a kind. We need to redefine our understanding of 'Presidential Material' back to when we actually had good Presidents in this country -- John F. Kennedy and Ronald W. Reagan -- and by all accounts Ronald E. Paul fits that mold with perfection.

Please apply your personal approach to managing these statements, rather than Stefan Molyneux's, since Molyneux's personal thesis is to walk away from voting entirely. Thank you.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

So you are essentially saying that if someone is emotionally disgusted by the mere mention of Ron Paul's name, the practical application of your theory is to change disgust to enjoyment? How specifically will you change someone's disgust for Ron Paul into a state of non-disgust? Or do you neglect that person entirely and move on to the next?

Again, I'm asking for practical applications and not more theory.

If someone is disgusted by the name "Ron Paul" you can actually do something very subtle that will circumvent that filter: refer to him as "Ronald E. Paul." Right off the bat it 'sounds' more Presidential, and it subliminally channels Ronald Reagan, and it breaks the two-syllable referent that has become loaded amongst the establishment powers.

 

[hazek]

If someone is disgusted by the name "Ron Paul" you can actually do something very subtle that will circumvent that filter: refer to him as "Ronald E. Paul." Right off the bat it 'sounds' more Presidential, and it subliminally channels Ronald Reagan, and it breaks the two-syllable referent that has become loaded amongst the establishment powers.

Yeah that one is pretty nice.

 

[Sentinelrv]

who Ronald Reagan himself personally endorsed.

Is this true? If so, why haven't we been using this to our advantage?

Edit: Also, I heard there's a possibility that when Ron announces, a board dedicated to this issue might be created. I don't know that it will, only that it might happen.

 

[Sentinelrv]

Sorry guys, but I've made the decision to remove my article from the forum. I'm going to leave the short version for all of you to keep using though, which is basically all you need in order to understand the point of this thread, which is to learn how to influence others. I've allowed people to view it here free of charge for a while now, and I hope that it's had a positive impact on people. If you'd like the reason for my decision to remove it, from the first time I posted it here and at other websites, I've been constantly improving it based on the feedback I've received from all of you. I now feel that pretty soon it will be ready for sale to the public as an actual ebook. And besides any profits earned, keep in mind that if I focus all my time on selling it, it will allow me to spread this information to more people than just those on this forum. This will allow me to affect the most amount of people, to change the most amount of lives. People need to know this information, and I believe that I can deliver it to them in a clearly presentable way that is also jam packed with value. For now though, I have to remove it from the internet, so I hope you understand.

However, I won't hold back the information from people that have the desire to improve themselves, so if you really need a copy of the last version I posted on this board, send me a PM with your email address and I'll send you a copy. As long as the moderators here allow it, I'll post a link for the ebook whenever it does get put up for sale. I have no date for when that will be.

This also doesn't mean I'm going anywhere. I'll still be here to answer any questions.

 

[Sentinelrv]

I've made the decision to go to CPAC to vote for Ron. I should be there all three days. I even bought C4L's sponsor ticket so that I can get into the private event with Ron and Rand. I saw him speak once before, but was unable to actually speak to him, because he was mobbed by the crowd after stepping down from the speaking platform. Hopefully this will give me a chance to actually talk to him at this private event.

I was originally going only to vote, but then I thought why not hand him a copy of my book, hopefully more completed by the time I get there. Maybe it could influence him in some way, or even show him how to motivate himself to make it all the way to his end goal of the presidency. Anything could come out of it I guess. I could explain real quick what it's about and how it benefits us, as well as telling him about the work we're doing here in this very thread. Is anybody else in this thread going? If not, if I do get the chance to speak with him, what do you think I should say to him about this topic. Is there anything you think he should specifically know? Let me know what you think now so I can think about what to say.

 

[hazek]

I think just handing him this material is very important but if you also get the chance to talk with him I'd tell him to read it and find out why people aren't waking up in bigger numbers and faster and what he'd need to pay attention to to maybe change that.

 

[SilentBull]

I've made the decision to go to CPAC to vote for Ron. I should be there all three days. I even bought C4L's sponsor ticket so that I can get into the private event with Ron and Rand. I saw him speak once before, but was unable to actually speak to him, because he was mobbed by the crowd after stepping down from the speaking platform. Hopefully this will give me a chance to actually talk to him at this private event.

I was originally going only to vote, but then I thought why not hand him a copy of my book, hopefully more completed by the time I get there. Maybe it could influence him in some way, or even show him how to motivate himself to make it all the way to his end goal of the presidency. Anything could come out of it I guess. I could explain real quick what it's about and how it benefits us, as well as telling him about the work we're doing here in this very thread. Is anybody else in this thread going? If not, if I do get the chance to speak with him, what do you think I should say to him about this topic. Is there anything you think he should specifically know? Let me know what you think now so I can think about what to say.

I would go except I can't take days off for that. That sounds like a great idea, though. By the way, when you are done with the book let me know. I would gladly purchase a copy.

 

[Sentinelrv]

I just want to make sure I deliver the message in a way that would make sure he knew it was urgent life changing material. I don't want to walk away and them have him throw it in the trash, lol, or even forget about it.

 

[Sentinelrv]

Here is a question and answer I provided on another website.

I've been poor all my adult life. It sucks, but I'm doing something about it. I'm studying Forex investing daily. One of the guys in the Forex thread warned about cognitive dissonance. It's where your mind is so used to one thing that it creates an artificial ceiling. You're comfortable with one reality and then anything else contradicts it, even something good, you feel uncomfortable. Someone who's used to being poor will start to become successful, but it will feel weird and then he'll unconsciously sabotage it.

Wow, have I ever felt this. When studying wealth building, a big part of me says, "Oh, bullshit, that can't happen." So, I've put together a strategy for beating cognitive dissonance. Here it is:

1. Regular deep meditation in which I in great detail visualize already being wealthy.
2. Daily reframing of all poverty mentality. If any negative thoughts to the effect of I can't be wealthy come into my head, I immediately reframe thing into ideas that empower me toward wealth. Then I use those reframes in my meditation.
3. Associate with people who are already wealthy. As of yet, that's mostly online. I still have to deal with poverty-minded people because I'm still working in my butt slam shitty job. I'm searching for better, but I can't walk out till I find better work. Any poverty mentality that emanates from my coworkers I immediately reframe.
4. Consistent study of wealth building.

Do you think I have my bases covered? Or is there more I should do to beat cognitive dissonance?

Ice, I think you understand this already from my writing, but I'll explain it here anyway. This might not make sense to anyone else but Ice, because it's all coming from an article I had previously posted on this forum. You say cognitive dissonance is an uncomfortable feeling you get when your reality is challenged and that you may sabotage yourself in the end. This is true, but let's take an even deeper look into why this is. As you know from my article that was posted on this forum, all your habitual patterns are ingrained in your nervous system and your reticular activating system draws on this data to filter your perception of the world. Usually your RAS will filter out stuff that doesn't match your already existing patterns, but sometimes something comes around that's so powerful that it can't simply be filtered out and it causes you to consciously focus on it. As you know, focusing on something repeatedly and emotionally is the only way to recondition yourself with new habitual thought patterns and beliefs. When you start to focus on something completely opposite of your pre-existing beliefs, you're essentially coming into conflict with your established belief system. A war starts up in your mind between the two ideas. If you lack conscious control of your focus of attention, your established belief system will usually win, since it's more habitually rooted in your nervous system already. It will automatically and unconsciously move you in the direction of whatever is more established as habit within you. If you understand all this though, and are able to control your conscious focus of attention, you will be able to continue opposing your established belief system. With emotionally intense focus and repetiton, you will eventually win over this battle and recondition that old belief system with the new belief system, which is much more in alignment with your ultimate goal of wealth building, thus providing you even less resistance and allowing you to reach your goal more quickly and easily.

We see this all the time with lottery winners that are pre-programmed with a mindset of poverty. Have you ever heard about all the people that were suddenly injected with a large amount of wealth and were soon after either broke or in debt? The new wealth that suddenly comes in gets frittered away through the existing "poor person" habit patterns, which are emotional, thought and behavioral. Unless the nervous system is reconditioned, the new wealth will suddenly be gone one day. The old belief system won out over the new belief system.

Another example is with religious conflict. Each religion is a belief system that has been taken in and ingrained in the nervous system of the person. I'm an atheist (Non-Religious) and my cousin is religious. When we shared an apartment, I would get into confrontations with him all the time because of this. I refused to bring the discussion up because I knew it would create conflict between us, but he would bring it up all the time, so I had to deal with it a lot. Anyway, I learned to be present focused and in the moment when dealing with these situations. My cousin on the other hand, cognitive dissonace would kick in. He would unconsciously and habitually react against anything I said, no matter how logical and emotion free my argument was. His old belief system was activated in order to protect his entire reality from an invasion of inconsistent ideas. If he instead was able to grab control of his conscious focus of attention instead of allowing his unconscious mind to habitually direct his focus, he would have been able to analyze my ideas more objectively without subjectively rejecting them based on habit. This will happen to you when challenged with new ideas and ways of thinking, so pay attention.

The strategies you've chosen to combat your old belief system are all superb ways of dealing with the situation. 1. Visualization will help you to purposefully ingrain these beliefs into your nervous system. 2. Reframing will allow you to prevent your established belief system from unconsciously and habitually taking control, allowing you to consciously substitute the old habit with something more positive and in alignment with your goals. 3. Hanging around with people that contain a poverty mindset will unsconsciously trigger more habitual thought patterns within you. Hanging around with people that contain a rich mindset will constantly challenge your existing poverty mindset, allowing you an environment that supports your desired belief system change. 4. Constantly inundating yourself with new beliefs and knowledge through books, audio and video programs will also help with the goal of reconditioning yourself. All your strategies will help you make it to your goal.

Cognitive dissonance is where your reality conflicts with new ideas. The only way to make sure you win this battle is to recondition yourself through the purposeful use of your focus of attention. The old reality will then be replaced by the new reality. To do this successfully unfortunately requires a mind struggle, and that struggle is where most people fail, most of the time because they aren't even consciously aware of the struggle itself going on inside of you.