We Need to Change Our Strategy for Influencing or Converting Others: (New Short Version!)

Ahh I think it's: We get pleasure and avoid pain by meeting those 6 needs.

Here's something I found on the web:

1. We aren’t human beings, we are human machines. My point in making this statement is not to get into a philosophical discussion about free will and the soul but to make the point that our bodies are hardware and our minds are software. For the most part, we are like robots walking this earth running the same programs every day. This is proven by the fact that scientists have estimated that 80% of the thoughts we had today, we had yesterday. The default program that makes up our operating system is “move towards pleasure and away from pain.” Everything we do is in the interest of following that prime directive. We get up in the morning and put clothes on because walking around naked would cause great emotional pain to us as people would point, laugh, ridicule and arrest us for our actions. Women spend 1-2 hours a day putting makeup on because it brings pleasure to know that they look good and going into work would bring pain to them because they would spend the day fearing the chatter that may insue, “she looks horrible!” “She looks sickly!” We gravitate towards cake and candy because it brings great pleasure and takes us out of emotional pain. It has been proven that sugar and carbs cause our body to release endorphins, a natural form of morphine to our bodies that make us feel great while killing pain. Make no mistake about it, for the most part we are human machines running the same prime program each and every day, once again, that program is, “seek out pleasure, run like hell away from pain.”

2. We gain pleasure by fulfilling our six human needs. Once again, the prime directive is seek out pleasure and avoid pain but our transport pod to that magical land of pleasure is the six human needs. The six human needs are as follows: Certainty, Uncertainty, Love and Connection, Significance, Growth and Contribution. There are a few things to remember about the six human needs:

a. These are needs, not wants. We need each of the needs to be met before we will allow ourselves to feel happy. The need that people get hung up on is the need for uncertainty. You may be thinking that uncertainty freaks you out, you don’t need uncertainty in your life, you only want certainty. I would counter that by saying that not only do you need uncertainty in your life as much as certainty but in many cases uncertainty may be even more important. Anthony Robbins once made the statement, most people believe that the certainty determines quality of life, the truth is uncertainty is what determines the quality of your life. Why? Because another word for uncertainty is variety and variety is the spice of life.

b. Something that meets my need may not meet your need. For example, knitting a hat for someone may make a grandmother feel like she is contributing to the life of that person, a grandchild for example. For me, knitting a hat would feel like a total waste of time. Neither is right or wrong, it is just the associations that we make to the activity.

c. Something that meets a particular need for me, may meet a totally different need for someone else. For example, roller coasters may mean total certainty to one person because they are certain that they are going to get a thrill from it, whereas to another it may mean total uncertainty and bring feelings of terror rather than thrill.

d. As for love and connection. In the absence of love, we will accept connection as a surrogate. This may be why many people will stay in a relationship that lacks feeling of love, because at least they feel connected.

e. Finally a very, very important principle surrounding the 6 human needs…It something or someone meets at least 3 of these needs to a high degree, it becomes an addiction.
 
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I agree with the conclusion that all six needs bring pleasure, but I myself have had trouble figuring out why. As Tony said himself, some of the needs seem to be contradictory, so I've had trouble figuring out how they all interconnect. Since you asked me this though, I took a large chunk of my time out of the day to analyze some of these needs and how they apply to my writing. Growth and contribution seemed simple enough that I didn't really need to write about them. Significance and love or connection on the other hand has given me some problems in understanding how they connect. I know they bring pleasure, but I haven't yet figured out the exact reasons why. What I did enjoy writing about though is certainty vs uncertainty and how they connect with my writing. It took me a while to figure this out and write, so please tell me what you think. Also, if you have any clues on how significance and love connect, please share them.

Certainty: Certainty is the belief that things will work out the way you expect them to. You could also call this belief or faith. Reconditioning yourself with the belief of certainty will help to support you in the pursuit of your goals, especially in the face of adversity, such as failure or rejection. A feeling of certainty that you'll accomplish your goals is a feeling of pleasure itself. If you lack certainty, then you most likely lack control of your focus. Only through focus of attention can you control the constant thoughts and emotions that are conditioning your beliefs of certainty or faith that will allow you to accomplish your goals.

Uncertainty: People hate to know exactly what happens in a movie before they watch it. I especially hate when people tell me what happens before I actually see it. Why is this though? Knowing exactly what's going to happen takes the excitement out of the movie. Here's another example. Let's say someone's absolute favorite food was chocolate. Because it's their favorite food, they make the decision that it's the only thing they will eat, besides water to drink. It might seem like a good idea at first to this person, but by the end of the day they'll quickly rethink their decision. Within a day or two, they'll be completely sick of chocolate and want something else. They want more uncertainty or variety. In both examples, you have the belief that you know exactly what's going to happen. You know your next meal is going to be chocolate. You know exactly what's going to happen in the movie. Why exactly is uncertainty a need? I think that knowing "exactly" what's going to happen down to the last detail actually reduces the overall emotional value or impact the event has on you. I don't know why, but I believe this is the reason why uncertainty is a need.

Are Certainty & Uncertainty Contradictory?: With those two explanations, does that mean that certainty and uncertainty really conflict with each other? What I explained above might have sounded contradictory, that one would cancel the other out, but it doesn't really work this way. They're not contradictory, but they are opposites to one another on a spectrum, and what's really needed is a balance between the two. I believe that a higher degree of certainty equals a lower degree of emotional value or intensity. A lower degree of certainty aka "Uncertainty" would then equal a higher degree of emotional value or intensity. The level of certainty and the level of emotional value are therefore completely inverse to each other.

Certainty-Uncertainty.png

You need some amount of certainty or belief that you will accomplish your goals in order to propel you to take action, but at the same time, you don't really know specifically what's going to happen. You believe you can achieve what you desire, but some amount of uncertainty prevents you from knowing exactly what will happen. On the other hand, if a time traveler from the future came to you and explained to you your entire life in full detail, what you did each day, your relationships, your accomplishments, your failures, your exact conversations with people, how you died, you would then be completely certain about what will happen to you for the rest of your life. Because of this, you can also be completely certain that you'd be bored for the rest of your life. The uncertainty and surprise of your life would be gone. In effect, the emotional intensity of the events of your life would be significantly reduced, leading you to live a miserable existence devoid of all pleasure. On the other side of the spectrum though, if we lived in complete uncertainty, then we'd most likely lack the belief that we could do anything in life and succeed. Because of this, our lives would be chaotic with no degree of emotional or mental control.

So in one case, we'd be too stable, leading to emotional suffocation. In the next case, we'd be too unstable, leading to lack of control, emotional chaos and likely addictions and bad habits of all kinds. I believe what we really need to aim for is the middle ground, creating a balance between certainty and uncertainty in order to maximize the emotional value we receive from the events in our lives, while still remaining in complete control.
 
Yea, makes sense.

Like I already posted, I think the most important aspect of the 6 needs seems to be: We get pleasure and avoid pain on a behavioral level by meeting those 6 needs. Why exactly are we wired like that is a completely different question and I'd guess it probably has to do with our genes and our evolution.
 
You know, I feel that I'm still missing a large piece of the puzzle here. I have half of the answers I need, which I wrote about in this article. What I currently understand is the structure of the mind and how to use that info to change yourself. The other half of the puzzle that I'm missing is how that structure of the mind came to be. That would be our evolutionary story and how that relates to our behavior. I know the very basics, since I included some of it in the beginning of the article, but that's about it for my understanding of evolution. I'm not going to bother with it right now, but in the future I'm going to study this subject, because I know that major answers can come out of it.

For example, if you read my example a couple pages back about the pickup community, I explained that their methods are based on evolutionary theory. They found that a man can attract women by displaying high survival and replication value. That's the core of their theory, S&R value, and it's all based on evolutionary theory. What I've always wondered was how the emotional value I speak of in the article and the pickup community's S&R value relate to each other. One form of value seems dynamic where the other form of value seems static. For example, in my article I explain that emotional value can be pleasureable or painful, positive or negative and that through reconditioning, you can completely change the emotional value linked to something from one opposite to the other. That's what I mean when I say that my form of emotional value in the article seems dynamic, since it can be changed. On the other hand, if you see a beautiful high value girl, you immediately feel sexual attraction. Powerful pleasureable emotions rise up in you. These emotions can't be changed like the other ones could. You can't change the physical attractiveness of the girl through your mind. So that's why I say that my form of emotional value in the article seems dynamic, while the pickup artist's form of S&R value seems static. Both forms of value trigger powerful emotions, whether positive or negative. Emotional value comes from your nervous system, but S&R value must come from somewhere else in the body.

So evolutionary theory has a lot more answers than I currently hold myself. The answers I hold allow you to control your own mind and body, while the evolutionary aspect would allow you a better understanding to control the relationships and interactions between you and other people, especially between a man and a woman, as is already proven by the seduction community.

Here's something I just thought of while writing this. About the need of significance, I think that it might be more evolutionarily related. People want to be important. They want to be noticed and talked about. I think the whole point of significance may be the person's own view of their S&R value. If they exhibit low value behavior, then they most likely feel insignificant and are unattractive to women. If they exhibit high value behavior, then they most likely feel powerful and very attractive to women. Imagine a scenario where you're surrounded by a group of friends, maybe even some attractive females in the group. All of a sudden somebody comes up to you and humiliates you in front of the rest of the group. You're now completely embarrassed and all your friends are laughing at you. You feel pissed now because of what's going on. Why do you feel this way. I believe it may be because this person lowered your S&R value in front of the entire group, making you look reactive and unattractive to the people around you. As a result, your chances of survival and replication have been reduced because your S&R value has been reduced in the eyes of other people. You also know the story will spread and it will be even worse for you. This person made you look "Insignificant." So I believe that significance must be an evolutionary need, where we need to raise our own survival and replication value in the eyes of other people. Raisng our S&R value will give us pleasureable feelings while also raising the probability that we will survive and pass on our genes via replication.

If this is true, then evolutionary theory will provide many more answers. I believe it's most likely the other half of the equation. If you're interested in learning this other subject, I can provide you with the list of books that the seduction community based their S&R value theories on. Let me tell you that what they teach works, because I've seen these people in action personally. I met Mystery aka Erik Von Markovic, the original creator of all this pickup theory at a club in Miami one time a couple years ago and the man knows exactly how to use evolution to his advantage. He understands with precision how it affects all of our interactions. Anyway, I didn't mean to ramble on, but I do believe that evolutionary theory is the other half of the puzzle. Once I study and understand that, I'll have a much more complete view of what's really going on.
 
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I think it might be a good idea to write up a super short version, just briefly explaining the pain-pleasure principle and the value-beliefs filters..
 
I think it might be a good idea to write up a super short version, just briefly explaining the pain-pleasure principle and the value-beliefs filters..

It probably would be a good idea to write up a short version for those people who pass over it just because of its length, but I guarantee you that most of the understanding would be lost, unless you're talking about only explaining specific parts that are necessary for converting others. What would you say are the most important parts to understand in order to get people to start coming up with strategies?
 
This is about as short as I can get it while keeping the most important information that pertains to converting others. Is this good or do you feel it's still too long? If you think you can do better, go ahead and try.

This short version of the article by no means goes anywhere near competing with the full length version. In fact, most concepts and explanations are left entirely out of this version, so I highly recommend reading the real thing below. I wrote this only for those impatient people that wanted to get some quick value out of it, instead of them not having read it at all. So again, please read the main article in order to gain a much more indepth understanding of the subject, including the subjects not even discussed in this short version.

Humans are survival machines created for the benefit of our genes, in order to increase the probability of our two purposes in life, survival and replication. The biological machine (Human Body & Mind) that our genes have built to house them, does not carry out the orders (Survival & Replication) of our genes directly. In other words, you and I don't consciously receive instructions from our genes on what to do, how to act or behave. Instead, we carry out orders from our genes indirectly, through the sensations (Emotions) of "Pleasure and Pain." It is through these two sensations, of which there are many manifestations and intensities that we obey our genes. Every action is driven by these two unseen forces, to avoid pain and to gain pleasure. It just so happens that most of the situations that threaten the survival and replication of our genes is associated with pain (Damage to our body, in which the genes reside within.) and most situations that increase the survival and replication of our genes have been associated with pleasure (Food, Drink, Money, Protection, Sexual Intercourse).

Over millions of years, our bodies have evolved from simple molecules to what you and I see in the mirror today. Your body contains what we call the "Subconscious Mind," which consists of the "Brain" and "Nervous System." Our sensations of pleasure and pain stem from the brain and nervous system. Natural selection has favored the brain and nervous system because it significantly enhances our ability to respond to external stimuli in super fast speeds, gives us the ability to predict outcomes, allows us to multitask efficiently and other superior brain functions, essentially allowing our genes a greater probability of survival and replication.

Your subconscious, or your nervous system is the actual biological location of everything important to you, everything from your skills, to your knowledge, thoughts, feelings, beliefs, values, experiences, memories, programmed reactions, emotional responses and even physiological data. Each piece of data, from your skill of tying a shoes to your ability to read is a neural network located inside our nervous system, and our body constantly draws on this data in order to complete even the simplest of tasks. Each neural network was formed through both emotional intensity and repetition. When building a skill, with enough emotional intensity and repetition, (Practice) your neural network for the activity will get stronger and stronger until you master the skill.

Our five sensory input channels Visual, (Sight) Auditory, (Hearing) Kinesthetic, (Touch) Olfactory (Smell) and Gustatory (Taste) are constantly being bombarded with 2,000,000 bits of information about the external world every second of every day. Our subconscious mind can process 40,000 bits of this data a second, where our conscious mind can process only 134 bits a second. What happens to the remainder of the 2,000,000 bits of data that isn't processed by our brain and nervous system? It's filtered out by our "Reticular Activating System" (RAS). The RAS is a part of the brain and nervous system, located in the brain stem. A loose network of neurons and neural networks running through the brain stem make up the RAS. The RAS filters through these 2,000,000 bits of sensory data according to what's important or not important to you, in other words, what's valuable or not. The RAS knows what's valuable and not valuable to you, because that information about you is already ingrained in your nervous system in the form of your neural networks, networks for all your beliefs, values, memories, experiences, etc...

So the RAS uses the nervous system as a filter on our perception of the world. Take a first time driver for example. The first time you drove, you relied mostly on your conscious mind to take in and interpret all that data coming in through your senses, which is why you made so many mistakes. It was too much data for your conscious mind to handle all at once. You had no neural network built up in your nervous system for the behavior of driving. Only after much repetition and emotional intensity was the behavior of driving burned into your subconscious mind and nervous system. Only after this networks creation could you drive without much conscious effort, and this is because you were now relying on "Subconscious Perception." Your RAS was now drawing on your nervous system to filter out all the data that wasn't important to driving and allowing only the data that was important to driving to influence your behavior. The RAS uses your nervous system in three different processes, called "Generalization," "Distortion" and "Deletion."

Another way of explaining the neural networks in your nervous system is to call them filters, since your RAS's three processes use them in order to determine what you focus on, or what's most valuable to you as a person, essentially what specifically you generalize, delete and distort. Out of 2,000,000 bits of data, only what's important to you is taken and used. The rest is filtered out and not used. Why does the data coming from the external world need to be filtered out in the first place? It needs to be filtered out because humans are completely incapable of processing an amount of data that large.

What you must understand by now is that when I talk about your mental filters, which consist of your habits, beliefs, values, memories, experiences, etc... I am referring exactly to your nervous system. All these filters make up the contents of your nervous system, specifically networks of constantly changing neural connections. One neural network is equal to one belief or one value, etc... The entire nervous system on the other hand, refers to the totality of all your neural networks combined, all your beliefs, all your values, memories, experiences and behaviors.

Again, all mental filters are really just neural networks that have been burned into your brain and nervous system through emotional intensity and repetition. This should lead you to the conclusion that the nervous system is really one giant filter on our perception of the external world. Imagine that your nervous system has a pair of eyes. You see the external world through the filter (Eyes) of your nervous system. In other words, you see the external world through the filter (Eyes) of your beliefs, values, memories, experiences, etc... Not only does your nervous system habitually react to your environment, but it's what tells you what the environment is in the first place. This is what's called subconscious perception. Just think about this and you will realize that's it's true. It's how you really see the world, how you perceive your own reality.

Again, as explained above, there are a number of mental filters the RAS uses, such as Beliefs, Values, Memories, Meta-Programs, Experiences and others. Beliefs and values are by far your most important mental filters, for they determine your success or failure in life as a human being. A belief is a feeling of certainty about something. It's an idea you have with strong evidence to support it that has been burned into your neurology through emotional intensity and repetition by thinking about it over and over again. A belief determines reality for you, what's possible or not for you. On the pleasure and pain spectrum, you could have a positive pleasurable belief that you're going to be a successful millionaire in a short amount of time, or a negative painful limiting belief that you'll never be able to make enough money to enjoy your life. You also have beliefs that determine what you need to do in order to meet your values.

Values on the other hand, are beliefs about what's important to you, what motivates or drives you. I've already explained that our core drives in life are to seek pleasure and avoid pain. Well, our values are simply "Labels" we put on different forms of pain and pleasure. Positive value labels would include love, freedom, food, money, sex, friends, family, security, etc... Negative value labels would include failure, rejection, humiliation, dread, physical pain, etc...

Where do your beliefs and values come from in the first place? The same place all your other neural networks (Filters) originally came from. You didn't choose them. When you are born, your fertile subconscious mind is wide open because none of your higher faculties such as your ability to reason and reject information have developed. As a result, parents, teachers and others in authority can place any information in your subconscious mind and if it is repeated over and over again with emotional intensity, your beliefs and values are formed in the biological form of neural networks in your brain and nervous system. You're like a sponge for information. This is what forms your personality or identity. Beliefs and values are simply the product of other peoples’ habitual ways of thinking taken in by you, as well as through your environment, learned knowledge, experienced events, etc... These mental filters are really just neural networks inside your nervous system and they're drawn on by the three brain processes of your RAS in order to decide which sensory data from the external world to filter out or retain.

After all this excess sensory data is filtered out by your RAS using your nervous system's mental filters, the remaining data is then interpreted and given meaning by forming the data into an "Internal Representation," which is a thought, picture or visual movie brought on by your conscious mind and imagination. Depending on your interpretation of the data, in other words the meaning you apply to this internal representation, it will trigger your "Physiology" (Body Language, Posture, Breathing & Vocal Tonality) and "Emotional State," (Pleasure or Pain) and that will drive your actions or behaviors. This internal re-presentation in your mind of the external world, which was brought together into a coherent form by your brain and nervous system's RAS will activate specific neural networks in your body, which will result in the correct changes in your physiology, emotional state and behavior.

For example, if you were driving and a pedestrian stepped off the curb and into your driving path, your brain and nervous system's RAS would have filtered the event, creating an internal representation in your mind of what the remaining sensory data means to you, the "Evade Pedestrian" neural network is activated, triggering the correct physiology, emotional state (Fear, Which is a Form of Pain) and behavior of swerving the car and missing the pedestrian. The "Evade Pedestrian" neural network has now been burned into your neurology even more, thanks to the emotional intensity of the experience, and should help you out the next time the same thing happens. Simply put without all the technical details, what really happened here is that your brain and nervous system gave meaning to what was happening around you, in this case the meaning was intense pain, and that pain is what allowed you to react fast enough to survive this situation, giving you more time to replicate and pass on your genes another day.

This complex process of filtering the external world according to the contents of your nervous system into a small manageable amount of data that your mind can use to interpret and give meaning to your surroundings is happening every second of every day. It's happening to you right now as you read this. You're filtering the words you see and creating internal representations in your conscious mind about what they mean. This is how human beings are able to perceive the external world around them.

Given this description of the workings of the mind, you can see that what we think we experience as actual reality, isn't reality at all, but only a filtered re-presentation of the external world. Actual reality would be if we were able to process all 2,000,000 bits of data coming in through our senses, instead of only 40,134 bits. This is why everyone in the world has a different set of beliefs, opinions and values than you do, essentially a completely different set of neural networks. If you got into an elevator with a CEO, a Monk and a Christian, each of you would have your own separate reality. I would say the monk doesn't get life because he's abandoned too much of what's pleasurable in this material world. The CEO doesn't think any of us get it because we don't have two vacation homes and a yacht. The Christian looks down on all of us because he knows that Jesus is the only answer. It's like each one of us is living in our own little fantasy world where we're the only one that understands what's really going on and everyone else is wrong.

This subjective illusory reality that our mind creates though is what makes us all unique. If we all took in the total amount of 2,000,000 bits of data, then we'd all see the external world in the same way. Instead, we generalize, distort and delete the information coming in, essentially creating a different map of reality for everyone in the world. No two people in the world generalize, distort and delete this information in exactly the same way, because none of us have the exact same nervous system from which we draw on for our mental filters. We're all looking at a map, not the actual territory. We're all seeing a unique filtered re-presentation of reality in our mind, not the actual external world. This is not to say that facts and truth do not exist. They do, and this is because there is an actual objective reality in existence, but we humans only see a filtered re-presentation of it, which makes it subjective to us.

When evaluating or interpreting the incoming data, what's really happening here is that you're searching for the meaning behind it. You're interpreting the situation to find out what it means to you, whether it means pleasure or pain. Our internal representations in our conscious mind = interpretations on what our sensory data means to us. Once we understand what something means to us (Emotional Response), only then can we do something about it and act (Behavioral Response). Our neuro-associations of pain and pleasure are the meaning we associate to something in our nervous system. Meaning = pleasure or pain. Neuro-associations = pleasure or pain. They are the same thing, just different labels to describe them. Values on the other hand as we've explained before, are only labels for various forms of pleasure or pain. These value labels are just names that we use to describe our neuro-associations to pain and pleasure. For example, you might have a pleasurable neuro-association to the label of success and a painful neuro-association to the label of failure. We've said that we condition our nervous system through repetition and emotional intensity. The neuro-association in this model is emotional intensity, whether pleasure or pain.

The key point to take out of this is that humans are constantly evaluating and interpreting their surroundings by applying meaning (Pleasure or Pain) to everything through their internal representations to their conscious mind. Once a meaning of either pleasure or pain has been applied to something, only then will we respond emotionally and physically to it, only then will we know whether we should move toward it (Pleasure) or away from it (Pain). Once something has been interpreted and given the meaning of either pleasure or pain, repetition will ingrain it into your nervous system, allowing it to act as a new filter to our perception of the world. In future encounters with this particular stimuli, your newly created filter used by your RAS will automatically move you toward or away from it, based on whatever neuro-association you have linked to it. But again, the main point here is that we're "ALWAYS" applying meaning to the world. We're always making new neuro-associations, even if we're just reinforcing ones that already exist and in effect making our neural networks for them stronger. This process never shuts off. It's the way we're built. Because of this, we're constantly creating results and moving ourselves in a direction, whether it's toward or away from something.

If you're trying to convert somebody over to Ron Paul, you have to realize that they're most likely not hearing your complete argument with all of its logic. Their RAS is filtering through your argument and paying attention to the parts that are most valuable or important to them, based on their own beliefs and values. You need to learn to speak their language in order to get through to them, in order for them to pay attention to most of what you say and even get excited about it. You can also use this info to change beliefs or install new values. Installing a positive value linked to Ron Paul as president will ensure that they move toward him and filter through the daily news looking for him and move away from the other candidates, who you made sure to link negative painful values to. You need to come up with your own strategies based on this information for converting others.

Now, as I said before, please read the main article below, because it goes much more indepth than this short version ever could. Hope this helps.
 
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The first basic thing to keep in mind is not not characterize everyone who doesn't agree with you as "sheeple," as was done in the initial post. That'll just antagonize people.
 
Still too long... I think 3 short paragraph should be max and I would include:

Humans are Driven by Pleasure & Pain: in short

The Reticular Activating System & Subconscious Perception + Generalization, Distortion & Deletion: in short

Mental Filters Used by Your RAS: Values & Beliefs: in short


and then a conclusion that it is these values and beliefs that we need to change in order to convert people. I know writing this up in a very short manner loses a lot of the explanations of why we work that way but if someone is looking for those they can read the whole thing right?

The important part IMO is to show in short how we work and what is the key.
 
I agree to a point but the bottom line problem with Ron Paul is the gop leadership not Ron Paul!! We are battling gop corruption and business as usual within the gop!! This is what really stopped him in 2008!! We have to stop the backroom deals and job security in the name of supporting the gop establishment business as usual big gov!!
 
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I agree to a point but the bottom line problem with Ron Paul is the gop leadership not Ron Paul!! We are battling gop corruption and business as usual within the gop!! This is what really stopped him in 2008!! We have to stop the backroom deals and job security in the name of supporting the gop establishment business as usual big gov!!

speciallyblend: I'm going to act like an asshole in the next few sentences so if you don't want to read that, stop here.

1. can you explain what the point of "!!" is in your sentences? You're not retarded or something are you? I mean cause normal people use a full stop or a single exclamation mark if needed you know..
2. GOP leadership is irrelevant if we get the voters to vote for Ron
3. but in order to do that you need to read and understand the OP

Now swallow your ego, forget that you are right (because I know in your mind you think you are), read the OP and LEARN SOMETHING. Thank you.
 
Talk about a swing and a miss.

The OP is not for the people we would like to convert but for us to understand what "makes people tick" so to speak and how to better approach the converting.

Yeah, as I understand it, we need to use arguments that relate to the already-existing neural connections of people. There is no point in showing someone that socialism is immoral if they don't care about morality. Emotional people also don't care about logic and numbers, so there's no point in explaining economics either. We can sell Paul's message in so many ways.
 
tl;dr, but I agree with the premise and I've posted a lot on this subject back during the 2008 campaign. Hopefully, if Ron runs, he runs to win and not educate. People need to see that he has a plan to transition from A to B and not just talk about the end goal. A reasonable, well constructed, measured plan helps a lot to dispell the crazy, extremist, kook, etc. labels.
 
If we want to be successful in converting others, we need to figure out strategies to change the emotions or values linked to our philosophy and Ron Paul. If we can learn how to change people's root values, we can change what they move toward or away from. We need to get them to move toward Ron Paul and our philosophy. The question remains though, what's the best way of doing this?

Edit: I re-read your post and I now see what you meant. You meant change their association to Ron Paul. I can see that. Does my statement make sense below? The strategy I outline will do just what you said, no? If we can use their already-existing values, then we can convince them that Ron Paul will get them exactly what they already care about.

I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, that we just need to change the way we deliver our message to hit the right nerve. This way, we don't have to change what they believe. We need to change our message to use they're already-existing neural connections.

Like I said before, if you want liberals who hate corporations to vote for Paul, then tell them Paul is against corporate welfare, and tell them that Paul is against the government helping companies at the expense of the little guy. Appeal to their anger. This is much simpler than trying to make someone care about morality or Economics. We will never be able to change people's values. All we need are the votes. We don't need everyone to understand Austrian Economics and liberty because you will NEVER be able to convert the majority. The majority of people are not logical and will never be changed. We need the votes. That's all we need from most people.
 
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The first basic thing to keep in mind is not not characterize everyone who doesn't agree with you as "sheeple," as was done in the initial post. That'll just antagonize people.

You know what, I completely forgot to edit that out of hazek's quote, so thanks for mentioning it, lol.
 
Edit: I re-read your post and I now see what you meant. You meant change their association to Ron Paul. I can see that. Does my statement make sense below? The strategy I outline will do just what you said, no? If we can use their already-existing values, then we can convince them that Ron Paul will get them exactly what they already care about.

I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, that we just need to change the way we deliver our message to hit the right nerve. This way, we don't have to change what they believe. We need to change our message to use they're already-existing neural connections.

Like I said before, if you want liberals who hate corporations to vote for Paul, then tell them Paul is against corporate welfare, and tell them that Paul is against the government helping companies at the expense of the little guy. Appeal to their anger. This is much simpler than trying to make someone care about morality or Economics. We will never be able to change people's values. All we need are the votes. We don't need everyone to understand Austrian Economics and liberty because you will NEVER be able to convert the majority. The majority of people are not logical and will never be changed. We need the votes. That's all we need from most people.

Yep you are spot on.
 
Personally I think Ron should educate in the start to attract a strong grassroots which agrees with him based on reason and their values but then in mid stage his message has to change from philosophy to practicality to really build the support.

Man I wish I could be apart of his campaign, I'd do it for free!
 
Personally I think Ron should educate in the start to attract a strong grassroots which agrees with him based on reason and their values but then in mid stage his message has to change from philosophy to practicality to really build the support.

Man I wish I could be apart of his campaign, I'd do it for free!

Yeah, I would love for him to focus on the military in at least one ad in the primary to get rid of the notion that he is weak on foreign policy. He needs to tell Republicans that government waste ALSO happens in the military and this only hurts our soldiers and national defense. Since Republicans already understand and are against government waste, this is a good strategy. He needs to make sure they understand he is the one that is trying to keep our military strong and effective.

I see what you mean about being part of the campaign. I come up with good ads in my head all the time. One of them actually became an ad, when I sent it to the Peter Schiff campaign.

Picture this at the end of a Ron Paul ad, with the flag waving and all:
"Americans, our soldiers, deserve better. STOP THE WASTE. Ron Paul, for a stronger, and more effective military!"
 
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