Watch the debt rise over the next few months.

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Madison320

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I'm curious to see how fast the debt rises over the next few months before we hit the next debt ceiling. We normally borrow a trillion a year, so that would put us at about 20.9 trillion by year's end, plus we got hit by 3 hurricanes. The debt is only at 20.2 so we'd have to borrow another 800 billion or so before the end of the year to catch up. Although my guess is they can't borrow that much without breaking the bond market, so they have to take it a little slower.

So far it's risen by about 350 billion since the debt ceiling was suspended.

https://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/debt/current
 
Madison320 said:
I'm curious to see how fast the debt rises over the next few months before we hit the next debt ceiling. We normally borrow a trillion a year, so that would put us at about 20.9 trillion by year's end, plus we got hit by 3 hurricanes. The debt is only at 20.2 so we'd have to borrow another 800 billion or so before the end of the year to catch up. Although my guess is they can't borrow that much without breaking the bond market, so they have to take it a little slower.

So far it's risen by about 350 billion since the debt ceiling was suspended.

https://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/debt/current
Click to expand...

Budget deficit last year was under $500 billion- not $1 trillion but yeah, it will probably be higher this year. Hurricane relief bill which passed was $15 billion though some were asking for more- $100 billion or more. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/co...ill-despite-gop-misgivings-over-trump-n799581
 
According to Zip, the debt and deficit don't 'really' mean anything. We should just print billions and hand it out to the masses. BOOM! Economic prosperity! Debt? Who cares!? Deficit? SPEND LIKE A HIGH ROLLER BITCHEZ, THIS FED GRAVY TRAIN IS UNLIMITED!!!!
 
Zippyjuan said:
Budget deficit last year was under $500 billion- not $1 trillion but yeah, it will probably be higher this year. Hurricane relief bill which passed was $15 billion though some were asking for more- $100 billion or more. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/co...ill-despite-gop-misgivings-over-trump-n799581
Click to expand...

The deficit does not equal the change in the total debt. Total borrowing is usually almost twice the deficit. I think it has something to do with off budget spending that doesn't count towards the deficit.
 
jllundqu said:
According to Zip, the debt and deficit don't 'really' mean anything. We should just print billions and hand it out to the masses. BOOM! Economic prosperity! Debt? Who cares!? Deficit? SPEND LIKE A HIGH ROLLER BITCHEZ, THIS FED GRAVY TRAIN IS UNLIMITED!!!!
Click to expand...

It's technically true that the number itself doesn't matter. What matters is how many new human bodies can be introduced through various ways that the Treasury can securitize into new debt issues. Want more deficit spending? Import more immigrants or get more people breeding. Where the debt number starts to become a problem is when the birth figures slow down, immigration slows (anchor babies) and federal income tax receipts become too low to service the interest on the outstanding debt. To understand "the debt" you have to understand how federal debt is created.
 
Madison320 said:
The deficit does not equal the change in the total debt. Total borrowing is usually almost twice the deficit. I think it has something to do with off budget spending that doesn't count towards the deficit.
Click to expand...

"Budgeted" deficit may also be different from the actual deficit.
 
devil21 said:
It's technically true that the number itself doesn't matter. What matters is how many new human bodies can be introduced through various ways that the Treasury can securitize into new debt issues. Want more deficit spending? Import more immigrants or get more people breeding. Where the debt number starts to become a problem is when the birth figures slow down, immigration slows (anchor babies) and federal income tax receipts become too low to service the interest on the outstanding debt. To understand "the debt" you have to understand how federal debt is created.
Click to expand...

Yeah , they take in about 2 trillion , spend about 3 trillion . There is no legitimate intention , none , to ever pay the debt . All they have to do is pay the interest .
 
oyarde said:
Yeah , they take in about 2 trillion , spend about 3 trillion . There is no legitimate intention , none , to ever pay the debt . All they have to do is pay the interest .
Click to expand...

Spending closer to $4 trillion. First Obama budget (FY 2010- written not by him but by Congress) called for $3.5 trillion in spending. "His" final one requested $4.1 trillion and had $3.6 trillion in tax revenues projected.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_United_States_federal_budget
 
oyarde said:
Yeah , they take in about 2 trillion , spend about 3 trillion . There is no legitimate intention , none , to ever pay the debt . All they have to do is pay the interest .
Click to expand...

But it's like having a mortgage and every payment forever only pays interest and the principle never goes down. The unpaid interest still compounds and the securitized property can be 'called in' at any time, though.

To add insult to injury, the principle doesn't exist except in your mind, because it was created by you. It's only a number there to keep you laboring to pay the interest (money earned by sweat, not accounting entries). Neat system, eh? Brilliant if it wasn't so fucked up.


(No surprise that 'principle' and 'principal' sound the same but mean different things......think about it. I used the wrong spelling of that word in my post but did you notice?)
 
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even if there was a budget the debt cant ever be paid. The same people trusted with your economic/ national security.
 
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kfarnan said:
even if there was a budget the debt cant ever be paid. The same people trusted with your economic/ national security.
Click to expand...

To get rid of the debt (without defaulting), you have to take in more in taxes than you spend- and do that for decades. Congress doesn't like that. If they have more money, they want to spend more money.
 
Zippyjuan said:
To get rid of the debt (without defaulting), you have to take in more in taxes than you spend- and do that for decades. Congress doesn't like that. If they have more money, they want to spend more money.
Click to expand...

And then once all debt is paid, there is no more "money", since under the current system all "money" is created through various debt mechanisms. Getting out of debt for the average person is a different animal than getting out of debt for governments.
 
devil21 said:
And then once all debt is paid, there is no more "money", since under the current system all "money" is created through various debt mechanisms. Getting out of debt for the average person is a different animal than getting out of debt for governments.
Click to expand...

It is a debt driven system.
 
Jeez they aren't playing around huh? No matter. It's all fake ones and zeroes anyway. Enjoy the bread and circuses
 
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