Was Thomas Jefferson a Christian?

[LibertyEagle]

That isn't a Christian. You can be an atheist and believe in the doctrines of Jesus (Love thy neighbor, do not steal, etc.). There are a good many things Jesus stood for that were good, but it is not predicated on believing he was the son of God and that he was resurrected. Or do you posit that you must believe Jesus was the son of God to agree with his moral stances?

So, basically, you are calling Thomas Jefferson a liar.

"My views...are the result of a life of inquiry and reflection, and very different from the anti-Christian system imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions. To the corruptions of Christianity I am, indeed, opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian in the only sense in which He wished anyone to be; sincerely attatched to His doctrines in preference to all others." -Thomas Jefferson letter to Rush, 1803.

 

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

So, basically, you are calling Thomas Jefferson a liar.

THAT IS NOT A CHRISTIAN. Good lord. How can you call yourselves Christians if you don't even know the criteria of being one. If you don't believe me, then ask Gunny yourselves. If you deny holy trinity, revelation, and that Jesus was the son of God you cannot be a Christian even if you believe in the morality of the teachings of Jesus. They are completely seperate (I happen to agree quite a bit with some of the moral teachings of Jesus -- does that make me a Christian LE?)

 

[low preference guy]

bump

Frank can't keep his love for religious wars to himself

 

[low preference guy]

THAT IS NOT A CHRISTIAN. Good lord. How can you call yourselves Christians if you don't even know the criteria of being one. If you don't believe me, then ask Gunny yourselves. If you deny holy trinity, revelation, and that Jesus was the son of God you cannot be a Christian even if you believe in the morality of the teachings of Jesus. They are completely seperate (I happen to agree quite a bit with some of the moral teachings of Jesus -- does that make me a Christian LE?)

everything you wrote here is correct, but i'm not sure arguments can convince religious fanatics

 

[FrankRep]

THAT IS NOT A CHRISTIAN.

"I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ." -- Thomas Jefferson

 

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

"I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ." -- Thomas Jefferson

Well that is splendid to know. Now atheists and Christians alike can frolic together in Heaven.

 

[FrankRep]

Well that is splendid to know. Now atheists and Christians alike can frolic together in Heaven.

Now you're calling Thomas Jefferson an Atheist??

 

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Now you're calling Thomas Jefferson an Atheist??

Sometimes I wonder about you Frank. In case you missed the bit where I pointed out how you can be an atheist and believe in the doctrines of Jesus, I feel I have to point it out again. So according to Frank, atheists and Christians alike will be frolicking happily together in the Kingdom of Heaven.

 

[Deborah K]

Now you're calling Thomas Jefferson an Atheist??

 

[Deborah K]

Sometimes I wonder about you Frank. In case you missed the bit where I pointed out how you can be an atheist and believe in the doctrines of Jesus, I feel I have to point it out again. So according to Frank, atheists and Christians alike will be frolicking happily together in the Kingdom of Heaven.

I guess I'm in that category too.

 

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

THE Jefferson Bible

The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth

Extracted Textually from the Gospels

Compiled by Thomas Jefferson

Thomas Jefferson believed that the ethical system of Jesus was the finest the world has ever seen. In compiling what has come to be called "The Jefferson Bible," he sought to separate those ethical teachings from the religious dogma and other supernatural elements that are intermixed in the account provided by the four Gospels. He presented these teachings, along with the essential events of the life of Jesus, in one continuous narrative.

This presentation of The Jefferson Bible offers the text as selected and arranged by Jefferson in two separate editions: one edition uses a revised King James Version of the biblical texts, corrected in accordance with the findings of modern scholarship; the second edition uses the original unrevised KJV. The actual verses of the Bible used for both editions are those chosen by Jefferson. Visitors should find the revised KJV text much easier to read and understand. Those seeking the precise English version Mr. Jefferson used when making his compilation can click on "Unrevised KJV text."

http://www.angelfire.com/co/JeffersonBible/

 

[Deborah K]

THE Jefferson Bible

The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth

Extracted Textually from the Gospels

Compiled by Thomas Jefferson

Thomas Jefferson believed that the ethical system of Jesus was the finest the world has ever seen. In compiling what has come to be called "The Jefferson Bible," he sought to separate those ethical teachings from the religious dogma and other supernatural elements that are intermixed in the account provided by the four Gospels. He presented these teachings, along with the essential events of the life of Jesus, in one continuous narrative.

This presentation of The Jefferson Bible offers the text as selected and arranged by Jefferson in two separate editions: one edition uses a revised King James Version of the biblical texts, corrected in accordance with the findings of modern scholarship; the second edition uses the original unrevised KJV. The actual verses of the Bible used for both editions are those chosen by Jefferson. Visitors should find the revised KJV text much easier to read and understand. Those seeking the precise English version Mr. Jefferson used when making his compilation can click on "Unrevised KJV text."

http://www.angelfire.com/co/JeffersonBible/

What is your definition of a Christian? Webster's has it as "an adherent of Christianity". If Jefferson wasn't an adherent, then why would he go through the trouble of creating a book with the teachings of Christ in it and nothing else?

 

[low preference guy]

AED, your efforts are laudable, but I'm not sure spending the time is worth it. There is a Christian quote whose advice I think will be good for you:

Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces.

If someone refuses to accept reality, an outsider can't help them much.

 

[Deborah K]

AED, your efforts are laudable, but I'm not sure spending the time is worth it. There is a Christian quote whose advice I think will be good for you:

Why would you quote something you don't believe in?

 

[low preference guy]

Why would you quote something you don't believe in?

*facepalm*

wow

 

[Mini-Me]

Thomas Jefferson considered himself a Christian, but he was a [Christian-inspired] deist by modern classification and especially by the standards of fundamentalist Christians:

The truth is that the greatest enemies to the doctrines of Jesus are those calling themselves the expositors of them, who have perverted them for the structure of a system of fancy absolutely incomprehensible, and without any foundation in his genuine words. And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this the most venerated reformer of human errors.

He drew his basic religious ideas from the Bible, but he did not believe it word for word, as the "true Christians" here say you must to be a "true Christian":

The whole history of these books [the Gospels] is so defective and doubtful that it seems vain to attempt minute enquiry into it: and such tricks have been played with their text, and with the texts of other books relating to them, that we have a right, from that cause, to entertain much doubt what parts of them are genuine. In the New Testament there is internal evidence that parts of it have proceeded from an extraordinary man; and that other parts are of the fabric of very inferior minds. It is as easy to separate those parts, as to pick out diamonds from dunghills.

Many here claim that true Christians are few and far between and apply very strict standards to determine whether people are true Christians...but when it comes to the Founders, any loose standard is enough to claim them all for Christianity. That's a double standard.

 

[low preference guy]

Thomas Jefferson considered himself a Christian, but he was a deist by our standards and especially by the standards of fundamentalist Christians:

Right. For Jefferson Christian meant being a follower of the practical teachings of Jesus, don't steal etc. Believing in his "divinity" doesn't fall under that. So Frank and others are implying that one can be a Christian without believing in the "divinity" of Jesus.

 

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

What is your definition of a Christian? Webster's has it as "an adherent of Christianity". If Jefferson wasn't an adherent, then why would he go through the trouble of creating a book with the teachings of Christ in it and nothing else?

My definition doesn't matter, only the Churches does. The Church has explicitly made clear that to be a Christian you must believe in revelation, holy trinity, resurrection of Jesus, and that Jesus is the son of God born from the virgin Mary. Jefferson rejected all of those things. He believed in the ethical system derived by Jesus, something I am sympathetic to. Would you say I am a Christian?

 

[Deborah K]

*facepalm*

wow

Splain it! Aren't you one of those who claim the Judeo/Christian religion is a fallacy? Why would you attempt to use our basis for it against us if it's all just a fallacy to you anyway?

 

[Deborah K]

My definition doesn't matter, only the Churches does. The Church has explicitly made clear that to be a Christian you must believe in revelation, holy trinity, resurrection of Jesus, and that Jesus is the son of God born from the virgin Mary. Jefferson rejected all of those things. He believed in the ethical system derived by Jesus, something I am sympathetic to. Would you say I am a Christian?

No, I would not. And since Jefferson regarded himself as one, then there really is no debate, is there?