WapPo: Rand Paul’s claim — twice in one day — that he has a biology degree

[Vanguard101]

I can't believe Washington Post allows people to publish this bullshit

 

[Kotin]

I actually am about to graduate with a bs in molecular biology and I have no problem with what he said.. Medical doctors study a ton of biology and biochemistry and in some ways quite a bit more in depth than many undergrad bio programs so this whole thing is really stupid.

 

[goRPaul]

What a pathetic attempt to discredit him. They're investigating his college records more than they ever investigated Obama's.

 

[Weston White]

The whole lot of them are really all just pissed at Rand because of his lesser known MA degree in SKATN or to the layperson Master of Arts Size-12’s Kicking Asses and Taking Names.

 

[radiofriendly]

It looks like the title was changed, yet you still see it on the main forum. "Rand Paul l i e d..."

I'd like to point out, if you care about Rand Paul's image, you don't want to repeat accusations against him with phrases like the one in quotes above--especially in the title of your post.

In effect, a medical degree is a biology degree:
“It is unfair to give Senator Paul 3 Pinocchios because a M.D. Degree is the study of biomedical sciences according to the Duke University School of Medicine. In other words, a M.D. is a biology degree. Merriam-Webster defines biology as ‘a branch of knowledge that deals with living organisms and vital processes.’ Dr. Paul never said he had an undergraduate degree in biology, and it is accurate for him to say that he has a biology degree. You are making inferences from his statement that are unwarranted. It is common knowledge that the study of medicine is the study of human biology, and a MD has a doctorate degree in one area of study of the science of biology.”
http://xxx.washingtonpost.com/blogs...wice-in-one-day-that-he-has-a-biology-degree/

Add to this that he was speaking in an off-the-cuff manner and has a higher degree.

 

[economics102]

I'm certainly on "Team Rand" but personally I don't find this particular incident defensible and don't think the criticisms are unwarranted.

He does not have a degree in English, period, end of story.

As for the biology degree, people can debate that (and they *are* debating it), but the bottom line is for a candidate who is hoping to get crossover votes from young liberals in the general election, this is the sort of shtick that immediately discredits a candidate in their eyes. Frankly I share that view -- if we were talking about a politician I didn't otherwise care about, I would immediately write him off for speaking inaccurately about what degrees he has, and I would write off his supporters who don't think that's a big deal.

Putting on the blinders, writing these things off as "no big deal" and criticizing the media outlets that bring it up...you do that at your own peril.

 

[whoisjohngalt]

I'm certainly on "Team Rand" but personally I don't find this particular incident defensible and don't think the criticisms are unwarranted.

He does not have a degree in English, period, end of story.

As for the biology degree, people can debate that (and they *are* debating it), but the bottom line is for a candidate who is hoping to get crossover votes from young liberals in the general election, this is the sort of shtick that immediately discredits a candidate in their eyes. Frankly I share that view -- if we were talking about a politician I didn't otherwise care about, I would immediately write him off for speaking inaccurately about what degrees he has, and I would write off his supporters who don't think that's a big deal.

Putting on the blinders, writing these things off as "no big deal" and criticizing the media outlets that bring it up...you do that at your own peril.

Actually, this issue is already dead because it was such a non issue. I saw plenty of the people from the left who hate Rand Paul calling this absurd. The only reason he doesn't have an undergraduate degree is because he tested out of needing one.

This barely stayed in the news cycle two days. You are the first person I've seen who cares about it. Would you have preferred he said something like, "Well I was a couple credits short of getting my undergrad degree in Biology and English because I was so intelligent that I was granted early acceptance into medical school."

That would have come off as condescending and arrogant and would have broken the flow of what was a policy discussion.

 

[acptulsa]

I'm certainly on "Team Rand" but personally I don't find this particular incident defensible and don't think the criticisms are unwarranted.

He does not have a degree in English, period, end of story.

As for the biology degree, people can debate that (and they *are* debating it), but the bottom line is for a candidate who is hoping to get crossover votes from young liberals in the general election, this is the sort of shtick that immediately discredits a candidate in their eyes. Frankly I share that view -- if we were talking about a politician I didn't otherwise care about, I would immediately write him off for speaking inaccurately about what degrees he has, and I would write off his supporters who don't think that's a big deal.

Putting on the blinders, writing these things off as "no big deal" and criticizing the media outlets that bring it up...you do that at your own peril.

Then take your own blinders off.

The host of the interview sort of apologized for talking economics because he had degrees in English and biology. Rand Paul indicated that his studies were also in English and biology without actually laying any claim to degrees. He wasn't specific--he neither said nor denied degrees in those studies, though a few moments later he did lay claim to a degree in the biological sciences only--because all he was doing was openly disclosing that he has no formal study in economics.

He who tries to turn this nothing--all of which is recorded and easy to find--into something is the one putting his reputation in peril. As the prog mouthpieces learned.

 

[economics102]

You are the first person I've seen who cares about it. Would you have preferred he said something like, "Well I was a couple credits short of getting my undergrad degree in Biology and English because I was so intelligent that I was granted early acceptance into medical school."

Speaking as someone who was a couple credits short of a one degree and a couple credits short of having a BS instead of a BA in another degree (I decided it wasn't worth staying an extra semester to rectify those things and was eager to start my career), I have never found it conscionable myself to ever imply or claim to have those degrees when I didn't. I've always felt it's an offense against those who stayed and worked the extra semester, etc, to get those degrees, that I would just go ahead and claim to have them when I didn't technically get them. Part of the "accomplishment" of getting a degree is jumping through all the myriad hoops and requirements colleges require of you.

So no, I don't consider there to be any good excuse for claiming to have a degree that you don't have. I often refer to my BA degree as "a bachelor's degree" in an attempt to skirt the BA/BS distinction, for example, but I would never be so bold as to claim I have the BS, nor would I claim to have the degree in the second major that I dropped in my final year of college.

Rand can choose to word it however he wants -- as others have mentioned, he could have simply said "I studied biology and English," etc, but he's 52 years old, which means he's had 30 years to work out how to refer to his degrees or lack thereof. I don't think simply claiming to have them is acceptable and the fact that he chose to say that suggests to me that that is probably the way he's always verbally handled the matter in his life.

Again, I know most people in this thread have made up their minds, I'm just hear to point out that a lot of people, particularly on the liberal side of the pond, consider it virtually blasphemy to claim you have a degree that, for whatever reason, whether it's that you tested out or you mutated into a housefly, you don't actually, officially have.

Also, this incident adds fuel to the fire of those who have latched on to the whole "Rand Paul is a self-certified opthamologist" -- a story that IS actually a bullshit story. But when you put the two together it makes for a very...congruent...attack talking point..."Rand Paul, self-certified medical doctor with self-appointed college degrees."

 

[whoisjohngalt]

Speaking as someone who was a couple credits short of a one degree and a couple credits short of having a BS instead of a BA in another degree (I decided it wasn't worth staying an extra semester to rectify those things and was eager to start my career), I have never found it conscionable myself to ever imply or claim to have those degrees when I didn't. I've always felt it's an offense against those who stayed and worked the extra semester, etc, to get those degrees, that I would just go ahead and claim to have them when I didn't technically get them. Part of the "accomplishment" of getting a degree is jumping through all the myriad hoops and requirements colleges require of you.

But Rand did get a degree in a specific field of biology. Don't try to compare it to your situation. It's completely different. He didn't choose to leave school for any reason, he just excelled to the point where he got to get a much more prestigious degree without requiring the undergraduate degree.

Almost no one agrees with you on this. I read hundreds of comments when this was an ongoing issue. If you believe this to be an issue, you don't have a very good feel for politics.

 

[reduen]

I have also seen people accusing Rand of not being certified something to that effect. What is the real story behind that one?

 

[Brian4Liberty]

I can't believe Washington Post allows people to publish this bullshit

Washington Post is a neoconservative outlet, so they are constantly smearing Rand.

 

[economics102]

He didn't choose to leave school for any reason, he just excelled to the point where he got to get a much more prestigious degree without requiring the undergraduate degree.

Putting aside the biology degree, which we simply don't agree on, this still would not excuse claiming to have the English degree.

WaPo has a page summarizing a variety of takes on the question of the biology degree. I have no idea how representative those opinions are of what most people think but I think it's worth reading: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...k-on-rand-pauls-statements-on-college-degree/

If you believe this to be an issue, you don't have a very good feel for politics.

Well, I certainly hope it doesn't become an issue. I can only speak for myself and my circle of friends (who are mostly liberal).

Anyway, agree to disagree I guess...

 

[acptulsa]

Putting aside the biology degree, which we simply don't agree on, this still would not excuse claiming to have the English degree.

WaPo has a page summarizing a variety of takes on the question of the biology degree. I have no idea how representative those opinions are of what most people think but I think it's worth reading: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...k-on-rand-pauls-statements-on-college-degree/



Well, I certainly hope it doesn't become an issue. I can only speak for myself and my circle of friends (who are mostly liberal).

Anyway, agree to disagree I guess...

You hope it doesn't become an issue? Then stop the air pump and quit trying to inflate it into one.

Rand did not say outright that he has a degree in English. And if an M.D. is not a degree in the biological sciences, then what the hell is it?

The overt enemy has already given up trying to gain traction with this b.s. Only the covert enemy still sees potential in it--for dividing and conquering us.

 

[economics102]

I have also seen people accusing Rand of not being certified something to that effect. What is the real story behind that one?

Rand thought it was unfair when the American Board of Opthamology added a rule requiring opthamologists to get re-certified every X years, that older doctors were exempted (grandfathered in under the old rules in which you only had to get certified once) while younger doctors were now forced to re-certify. He felt all doctors should have to re-certify (espcially older doctors). So he started his own opthamology board, a competitor to the ABO. It ultimately was a failed venture, but the smear/spin is that he started it because he wanted to self-certify himself instead of having to pass the ABO's certification, which is clearly a nonsense claim when you know the story and context. He was trying to create a *more* rigorous certification environment.

 

[economics102]

You hope it doesn't become an issue? Then stop the air pump and quit trying to inflate it into one.

I have no desire for RPF to become an echo chamber. And I seriously doubt Rand's opponents are taking their cues on what lines of attack to draw on from the opinions of people like me. And I woudl also put it this way -- if I was on Rand's staff, I would be trying to make the case to him "stop saying things like this, it's going to backfire." Well, I'm not on Rand's staff and talking on RPF is as close as I -- and most of us -- get.

Rand did not say outright that he has a degree in English.

The interviewer said he had a degree in econ. Rand replied "mine's in biology and English." That seems pretty clear-cut to me. Sorry but again I don't subscribe to the idea that the secret to success is for the king to be surrounded by a bunch of yes-men.

And if an M.D. is not a degree in the biological sciences, then what the hell is it?

I've already conceded that this is a debatable point on which I may be wrong and don't have any further insight

The overt enemy has already given up trying to gain traction with this b.s. Only the covert enemy still sees potential in it--for dividing and conquering us.

Do you feel threatened because people on the same side as you don't agree with you on 100% of things? Do you think the path to success is to just go with the flow all the time?

 

[acptulsa]

I have no desire for RPF to become an echo chamber. And I seriously doubt Rand's opponents are taking their cues on what lines of attack to draw on from the opinions of people like me. And I woudl also put it this way -- if I was on Rand's staff, I would be trying to make the case to him "stop saying things like this, it's going to backfire." Well, I'm not on Rand's staff and talking on RPF is as close as I -- and most of us -- get.

Saying stuff like what? Stuff like, if you want a highly technical discussion of economics you could find a better interviewee than myself? Because that's all he said.

Yes, yes, it would be nice if he were strictly careful every nanosecond. But, 'My undergraduate studies which did not culminate in degrees were in fields other than economics,' would get him branded in the minds of millions as a boring stuffed shirt also-ran a whole hell of a lot faster than random attacks over nits too small to be worth picking ever will.

The interviewer said he had a degree in econ. Rand replied "mine's in biology and English." That seems pretty clear-cut to me. Sorry but again I don't subscribe to the idea that the secret to success is for the king to be surrounded by a bunch of yes-men.

If you want to pick some nits yourself, pick the right nits. The interviewer said that he did not have a degree in econ.

Now, you're going to say that's nitpicky and has no bearing on your point. And I say this whole stupid thing had no bearing on Rand's point, and everyone who isn't a partisan prog hack can see that. So, why would we be stupid enough to keep pressing the stupid "point"?

I've already conceded that this is a debatable point on which I may be wrong and don't have any further insig

And I say the fact that an M.D. is a degree in the biological sciences is not a debatable point.

Do you feel threatened because people on the same side as you don't agree with you on 100% of things? Do you think the path to success is to just go with the flow all the time?

I don't mind one bit seeing progs shoot themselves in the foot. But when I see someone trying to shoot their own foot who is actually sharing my shoes, I will interfere.

 

[economics102]

Yes, yes, it would be nice if he were strictly careful every nanosecond.

This is my entire point, though. What you consider to have been him not being "strictly careful" some people consider "beyond the realm of acceptable misstatement." Forget the biology thing for a minute. At least in my mind, accidentally misstating that I have a second degree in English (which I got 95% of the way through the course requirements for) is not something I would accidentally say, and I'm not even a politician.

If you want to pick some nits yourself, pick the right nits. The interviewer said that he did not have a degree in econ.

If you're going to pick nits with the nits I pick, pick the right, erm, nits. The interview said he *did* have a degree in econ. He said "I have an econ degree." Go back and watch the video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czCnRqkcRdE, at the 20:00 mark).