Wage Strikes Planned at Fast-Food Outlets

[CaptLouAlbano]

You would think so, yet he is saying that is the way it should be. Under what system? Under what wonderful economic system should people be slaving their youth away? Are you all hoping once Ron Paul is president, teh youth will have to work 16 hours a day, 7 days a week? Is that your idea of great leadership, and a great, working economy?

It's just plain stupid.

Even before we had an oppressive government lauding over us, those who worked smart, worked hard, and put in a lot of hours were far more successful than those who refused to do so. Even if all government interference were removed those who work hard will still be more successful than those that do not. And if, as in the case of the example in the OP, you are earning a living solely by working for an hourly wage, any time you spend inactive from work is costing you money.

 

[CaptLouAlbano]

Every person I've ever met who claimed to work monumental hours was exaggerating. Most were downright full of crap. Nobody worked 7 days-12 hours, let alone 16. Maybe they keep that up for a week or two or very occasionally, but not more.

Ask anyone that owns a business if they work 40 hours per week. Most will laugh at you. The norm for most business owners is 60+ hours per week.

For the large majority of people, working 40 hours per week puts you in a position where you live paycheck to paycheck, because most people spend to the limits of their income. If they get a promotion, they buy a new car. If they get a raise, they move into a bigger house. We have a mentality existing today of instant gratification that was not as typical a generation or two ago - just look at the savings rate and you can see it illustrated.

 

[VBRonPaulFan]

Just to play devil's advocate here, there are some problems trying to work more than one minimum wage job. Employers are just as spoiled as anyone else, and often demand to be number one priority for the worker. What do you do when two employers want you to work at the same time? Or at the same time as a class or unpaid intern work that is necessary for education? Someone was talking about these conflicts just yesterday (in the real world).

Supply and demand. Employers will make unreasonable demands, just because they can.

That's usually the result of piss-poor communication. If you're working more than one job, you need to let the 2nd/3rd/whatever employer know up front. Fail to mention that, and of course they'll see no reason why they can't work you at one certain time over the other. I've worked up to 3 jobs at a time, and this was never an issue because I was pretty clear during interviews what my possible times were that I could work. Most employers prefer you give them some schedule up front anyways, it makes things easier for them.

 

[Freedonia]

just look at the savings rate and you can see it illustrated.

Here is the PSAVERT chart so everybody can see it illustrated.

 

[angelatc]

Just to play devil's advocate here, there are some problems trying to work more than one minimum wage job. Employers are just as spoiled as anyone else, and often demand to be number one priority for the worker. What do you do when two employers want you to work at the same time? Or at the same time as a class or unpaid intern work that is necessary for education? Someone was talking about these conflicts just yesterday (in the real world).

Supply and demand. Employers will make unreasonable demands, just because they can.

Well, I think that while there are certainly some jerks in every walk of life, that's actually just about the opposite of what I've found. I have always found my employers were more than willing to schedule my around my educational opportunities.

And as for the second job, during the interview I just made it clear to the second employer that I could not work past 4:30 because I needed to be at my other job by 6:00. It was never a problem.

 

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Ask anyone that owns a business if they work 40 hours per week. Most will laugh at you. The norm for most business owners is 60+ hours per week.

For the large majority of people, working 40 hours per week puts you in a position where you live paycheck to paycheck, because most people spend to the limits of their income. If they get a promotion, they buy a new car. If they get a raise, they move into a bigger house. We have a mentality existing today of instant gratification that was not as typical a generation or two ago - just look at the savings rate and you can see it illustrated.

The average business owner, overall, is often not that much different from the average worker. And sixty hours is a far cry from 84-112. It's simple math. There are 168 hours per week. If you're going to be successful, then the very first thing you have to do is realize the time limitation for taking caring of everything.

The very most successful people realize the point of diminishing return on actual labor hours. Always working two full-time jobs or the equivalent hours is a sucker's game done by people who are desperate. Successful people realize early on that the "work" is actually a minority component in success. The most successful people identify talent, organization, networking, looks, etc. and realize that these are indispensable.

 

[CaptLouAlbano]

The average business owner, overall, is often not that much different from the average worker. And sixty hours is a far cry from 84-112. It's simple math. There are 168 hours per week. If you're going to be successful, then the very first thing you have to do is realize the time limitation for taking caring of everything.

The very most successful people realize the point of diminishing return on actual labor hours. Always working two full-time jobs or the equivalent hours is a sucker's game done by people who are desperate. Successful people realize early on that the "work" is actually a minority component in success. The most successful people identify talent, organization, networking, looks, etc. and realize that these are indispensable.

The 12-16 hours, 7 days per week was in reference to the example in the OP. If one is only able to earn 9 bucks an hour through their labor, then they need to be out there working as many hours as humanly possible to put themselves in a position where they can start to build wealth. The simple fact is that people today put far too much value in their leisure time, but at the same time complain that they do not have enough money. In spite of everything, there is a ton of money out there ready to be accumulated if you are willing to put in the work to do so.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

That's usually the result of piss-poor communication.

As told to me, it was a case of "I have to do this intern project for school on Sunday" and the boss's response was "You have to work that day, it's going to be busy". Not a communication issue, it's a negotiation issue. And with minimum wage, low skill jobs, it is easy for the employer to replace you with someone who is available to work at any time.

Now we are back to the OP situation. From the perspective of the employer, an employee who is available 24x7 for a 20 hour a week job is preferable.

Obviously, hard work is necessary to get ahead. No doubts about that. But there are a lot of other factors at play too. Higher skilled workers have more power to negotiate, and are not as easy to replace. Job markets vary. A bad job market gives employees less negotiating room when it comes to conflicting schedules.

An employer who is a jerk may lose employees. But does he care when they are unskilled employees who can be replaced on a moments notice?

 

[phill4paul]

Who cares? What was the last minimum wage strike that actually lead to higher wages? The way to go about it is to vote in politicians that will force the companies to pay a higher minimum wage or not be able to do business. You'd think these young pikers would know that by now.

 

[jonhowe]

Until recently, I was working 50-60 hour weeks on wall street (sales) and making less than 1000 a month. Now I work 30 hour weeks, nights (bartending), and make almost 50% more than that. In the days I don't work, I either study things that interest me, volunteer, or do odd jobs. And I live in manhattan with no family support;

How? I live in a living room of a 2 bedroom apartment now housing 3 in a relatively 'bad' neighborhood in Northern Manhattan. I walk everywhere to save on Metro. I NEVER take a taxi. I never buy my own pot, I trade it for services or drinks. I don't have cable, just the cheapest internet possible and netflix. I have my first smartphone, a non-brand name model with a plastic screen that doesnt crack when dropped. I eat a lot of ramen, and I allow myself only 2 meals out per week (usually 1 lunch, 1 dinner) and 2 coffees not made at home.

I've gone from zero dollars when I moved to the city 2 years ago to having almost $10k saved up, most of that in the last 6 months.





The people at the McDonalds 2 blocks away have done all the recent strikes.


EDIT: After reading UW's posts, I'd like to point out I'm 24, and if I wasn't busy all the time I'd go insane. If I didnt have money to go to the bar once in a while, same deal. SO I WORK FOR IT. BECAUSE I WANT IT. YOU NEED TO WORK FOR WHAT YOU WANT.

I went to college for business. It was a bad choice. Should have gone for pre-med or IT or not at all. Could only get sales jobs since my university was only lower middle tier (Hofstra). When I realized I hated sales, I decided to cultivate one of my other interests (beer). I became knowledgeable enough to work at a high end craft beer bar in about 1 month. So now I make more money and enjoy it. It cost me next to nothing to do. Now I get offers to help create beer menus and lists at new restaurants and from event planners. CULTIVATE A SKILL.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Who cares? What was the last minimum wage strike that actually lead to higher wages? The way to go about it is to vote in politicians that will force the companies to pay a higher minimum wage or not be able to do business. You'd think these young pikers would know that by now.

Just listened to CNBC for a bit. Some Obama guy was on talking about how Obama is doing everything that the people want. He's working on increasing the minimum wage and increasing immigration. What else could an American ask for?

 

[Origanalist]

 

[phill4paul]

Just listened to CNBC for a bit. Some Obama guy was on talking about how Obama is doing everything that the people want. He's working on increasing the minimum wage and increasing immigration. What else could an American ask for?

And there you go. Next step is the politicians ask what the businesses will be able to afford, still make a profit and continue to contribute to their campaigns. A nice neat box wrapped up for Christmas.

 

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

The 12-16 hours, 7 days per week was in reference to the example in the OP. If one is only able to earn 9 bucks an hour through their labor, then they need to be out there working as many hours as humanly possible to put themselves in a position where they can start to build wealth. The simple fact is that people today put far too much value in their leisure time, but at the same time complain that they do not have enough money. In spite of everything, there is a ton of money out there ready to be accumulated if you are willing to put in the work to do so.

The reality is that most people don't make a ton of money. The reality of mathematical average for any group means that most people will be clustered in the middle. The people that make the ton of money are outside the curve of average. There is very little room at the top. If there were more room, then all of the people there would be average, and the peak would be elevated even more.

Your scenario is more of a Horatio Alger myth that goes against mathematics.

 

[CaptLouAlbano]

The reality is that most people don't make a ton of money. The reality of mathematical average for any group means that most people will be clustered in the middle. The people that make the ton of money are outside the curve of average. There is very little room at the top. If there were more room, then all of the people there would be average, and the peak would be elevated even more.

Your scenario is more of a Horatio Alger myth that goes against mathematics.

I started at 18 working as a truck driver. I used money that I saved to purchase an interest in a bar with a family member. For a couple years I worked my full time job and then worked at the bar at night and the weekends. After a couple of years, I sold my share of the bar and bought two pizza shops. Again, I worked my full time job and managed the businesses the rest of the time. After a couple more years I was able to purchase other businesses using the profits from the pizza shops. It was from there that I was able to grow my portfolio of properties and businesses, and worked full time at managing the businesses I owned. Today at 75, I am retired now, but still own property (commercial and residential) and generate in excess of 7 figures a year in revenue.

This still can be done today, but takes a mindset that most people do not have. One, is that you have to deny yourself pleasures until you are able to afford things. Second is that you have to focus on acquiring assets that produce income. Both of these key components, few people do, but those who do them are wealthy. It doesn't take much, but one has to be willing to put in the long hours it takes to get the money to invest, and one also has to be willing to make sacrifices along the way. For many years, I didn't know what a day off was. Holidays? Forget them. Dining out? No. Vacations? No. If one is willing to sacrifice, then becoming wealthy is relatively easy. The problem is, few are willing to do so.

 

[angelatc]

The reality is that most people don't make a ton of money. The reality of mathematical average for any group means that most people will be clustered in the middle. The people that make the ton of money are outside the curve of average. There is very little room at the top. If there were more room, then all of the people there would be average, and the peak would be elevated even more.

Your scenario is more of a Horatio Alger myth that goes against mathematics.

I guess you don't actually read much early literature. Horatio Alger stories told the tales of young men who worked hard and climbed out of poverty into the middle class.

Which is actually what happens to most of the poor in America.

 

[VoluntaryAmerican]

There is a difference between a right and what is right.

Well, gee, I guess we have a different moral code? I believe if someone is pursuing their own self-interest and does not hurt anyone else than their actions are moral. Are there shades of grey? Yes, absolutely. But this doesn't even tint grey, as far as I am concerned.

 

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

I started at 18 working as a truck driver. I used money that I saved to purchase an interest in a bar with a family member. For a couple years I worked my full time job and then worked at the bar at night and the weekends. After a couple of years, I sold my share of the bar and bought two pizza shops. Again, I worked my full time job and managed the businesses the rest of the time. After a couple more years I was able to purchase other businesses using the profits from the pizza shops. It was from there that I was able to grow my portfolio of properties and businesses, and worked full time at managing the businesses I owned. Today at 75, I am retired now, but still own property (commercial and residential) and generate in excess of 7 figures a year in revenue.

This still can be done today, but takes a mindset that most people do not have. One, is that you have to deny yourself pleasures until you are able to afford things. Second is that you have to focus on acquiring assets that produce income. Both of these key components, few people do, but those who do them are wealthy. It doesn't take much, but one has to be willing to put in the long hours it takes to get the money to invest, and one also has to be willing to make sacrifices along the way. For many years, I didn't know what a day off was. Holidays? Forget them. Dining out? No. Vacations? No. If one is willing to sacrifice, then becoming wealthy is relatively easy. The problem is, few are willing to do so.

I think your story is great. I certainly appreciate hearing about such success.

You are now, however, going beyond the one dimensional hard work the you previously cited. You mention mindsets, focusing on acquisitions, investing, and sacrifice. The word sacrifice is actually a good example of something that goes beyond work. You can sacrifice others things besides time. People at the top often must sacrifice items such as ego.

If we continue this discussion, then I'm sure more aspects would surface regarding your success and the success of others. There is research showing that successful people more often than not attribute their success to their individual characteristics; while unsuccessful people cite poor luck in their failings.

There is no doubt that internal and external forces play a part in success or failure. I think that being one-dimensional leads people to undesirable qualities, such as sloth or boastfulness. I really think that perspective is sometimes more useful and more important than discussing things like individualism or luck.

 

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

I guess you don't actually read much early literature. Horatio Alger stories told the tales of young men who worked hard and climbed out of poverty into the middle class.

Which is actually what happens to most of the poor in America.

Alger's tales were not simply about hard work. He discussed other elements that contributed to success, such as virtue. These are the items that go beyond the simplistic and one dimensional element of hard work. Even Alger had elements of external forces beyond one's control, such as the well-to-do benefactor that contributes to the young man's success.

Simply citing hard work for success is inaccurate and can even be foolhardy.

 

[CaptLouAlbano]

Well, gee, I guess we have a different moral code? I believe if someone is pursuing their own self-interest and does not hurt anyone else than their actions are moral. Are there shades of grey? Yes, absolutely. But this doesn't even tint grey, as far as I am concerned.

In this case, if someone is scheduled to work on a particular day and they refuse to work, then while they are pursuing their own self-interest they are indeed hurting someone else.