Vivek Ramaswamy’s 2024 POTUS campaign

Residency does not count as far a citizenship is concerened. This is not the only source, there are also others:

Vivek Ramaswamy: Not Constitutionally Eligible to Be President

So, do we stand on principle? Or just forget about it? Because IMO, not standing on principle is exactly what caused this nation to plunder.

Here's the problem with that argument.

Let's say your great grandparents were not citizens, but they came here and established longterm residency and had children.

Under your arguments, your grandparents would not be citizens, even though they were born here, lived here their entire life, paid taxes, have SS#, driver's license, vote, etc.

That also means your parents wouldn't be citizens.

That also means you wouldn't be a citizen, despite being like a fourth generation American.
 
Here's the problem with that argument.

Let's say your great grandparents were not citizens, but they came here and established longterm residency and had children.

Under your arguments, your grandparents would not be citizens, even though they were born here, lived here their entire life, paid taxes, have SS#, driver's license, vote, etc.

That also means your parents wouldn't be citizens.

That also means you wouldn't be a citizen, despite being like a fourth generation American.
[MENTION=10908]dannno[/MENTION] , please study up on this subject, there is a lot of material out there with a simple search.

There is a difference between residency, citizen, naturalization and natural born. It is because Americans themselves do not know their own customs and laws which allows this country to deteriorate.

Also, not knowing our own customs and laws is another reason why there are millions and millions of laws on the books; basic laws are not abided by, or known or understood, so they create more and more laws.
 


That argument is invalid. He claims that some people believe that the candidate must be natural born AND his/her parents must also be natural born. That is not what I believe, nor is it the standard that must be met. He is convoluting the issue. Finally, he says "I think" and "my view" much too often. He obviously needs to study up as well.

[MENTION=10908]dannno[/MENTION] , I requested actual data/facts concerning what date did Vivek's parents became actual citizens. This video provided no such thing. Not even a hint.
 
That argument is invalid. He claims that some people believe that the candidate must be natural born AND his/her parents must also be natural born. That is not what I believe, nor is it the standard that must be met. He is convoluting the issue. Finally, he says "I think" and "my view" much too often. He obviously needs to study up as well.

@dannno , I requested actual data/facts concerning what date did Vivek's parents became actual citizens. This video provided no such thing. Not even a hint.

LOL... he has spent hundreds of times more hours reading related materials and studying up on this issue as you have.

The issue of parents must be natural born citizens is related to being born in another country, i.e. John McCain is only a citizen bc his parents were citizens and he was incidentally born in another country. That is not the standard for people born here, that's the standard for people born outside the US.

I also know you didn't listen to the whole thing, because his spiel lasted at least 13 minutes and you made your post 10 minutes after I posted the above clip.

The reason he says "I believe" and "my view" a lot is because he is discussing specific issues that have not been adjudicated in those cases.
 
LOL... he has spent hundreds of times more hours reading related materials and studying up on this issue as you have.

And you know this how? How do you know how many hours he researched this, or how many actual hours I have researched this?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?438946-Natural-Born-Citizen-Defined


The issue of parents must be natural born citizens is related to being born in another country, i.e. John McCain is only a citizen bc his parents were citizens and he was incidentally born in another country. That is not the standard for people born here, that's the standard for people born outside the US.

See the above link that I have just provided.

I also know you didn't listen to the whole thing, because his spiel lasted at least 13 minutes and you made your post 10 minutes after I posted the above clip.

The reason he says "I believe" and "my view" a lot is because he is discussing specific issues that have not been adjudicated in those cases.

I listened to enough of the excerpt to understand where he was going - which was nowhere, aside from his own personal beliefs. His "I believe" and "my view" could be cleared up by reading the link that I have provided, which includes Publius Huldah who happens to be a Constitutional and Litigation Attorney.
 
Vivek responds to a pansexual journalist on same-sex couples and the LGBTQ+ community...



Perhaps this is some of why discourse sucks so much in politics.

Vivek gave a respectful response to this pansexual journalist, and they left on good terms, agreeing to disagree, and what is the headline?

"Vivek Ramaswamy THRASHES a pansexual journalist..."

Reeks of the violence-craving authoritarian mindset. At least Vivek and the journalist were above that. There was no thrashing, just respectful discussion.
 
Last edited:
That is incorrect, according to attorney Robert Barnes.

Barnes is wrong:

As for Ramaswamy, although he refuses to directly answer questions critical to determining whether he is a natural-born citizen, the public record provides enough information to make the call without his help.
We know that Ramaswamy was born in 1985. We know that his mother and father immigrated here from India about 40 years ago, according to information revealed in a Washington Post article from April 3, 2023.
The process for becoming a naturalized citizen typically takes about five years. I worked for several years as an immigration attorney and can personally attest to the truth of this.
If we subtract 40 from 2023, we get 1983. If allow a range of two years on both sides of the estimated year of immigration of Ramaswamy’s parents — 1983 — that gives us a range of 1981-1985. Regardless of where the actual date of arrival in the United States falls, that range does not provide sufficient time for Ramaswamy’s parents to have completed the necessary steps for naturalization before his birth in 1985.
Following the Founders’ lead matters greatly. The provision they expressly included in the Constitution regarding this issue serves as a safeguard against constitutionally unqualified candidates seizing power, a pressing concern for every American, then and now. This holds true for anyone whose life and liberty might hang in the balance under the command of the individual named commander-in-chief of the U.S. military during a time of war.
Notably, the drafters of the Constitution felt no need to define the concept of natural-born citizen. The term “natural born citizen” finds its origins in the English concept of “natural born subject,” which finds its roots in Calvin’s Case, a 1608 legal decision.
Those labeled as natural born subjects were individuals whose allegiance to the king was innate, following the dictates of the “law of nature.” According to the court’s verdict, certain individuals owed allegiance to the king by the principles of natural law, entitling them to his protection even in the absence of a parliamentary decree.
During the colonial and early republic periods, those born under the British Crown could bear “double allegiance,” akin to the modern understanding of “dual citizenship.”
Our own Founding Fathers, most of whom were born within the territory controlled by the British Empire, were understandably apprehensive about the potential repercussions of divided loyalty, given they were fighting for their freedom from what many considered “the mother country.” In response, they enshrined the “natural born citizen” requirement in the Constitution as a guard against what Gouverneur Morris in the Constitutional Convention called “the danger of admitting strangers into our public councils.”
In his View of the Constitution of the United States, St. George Tucker eloquently explained the purpose of the provision:
That provision in the constitution which requires that the president shall be a native-born citizen (unless he were a citizen of the United States when the constitution was adopted) is a happy means of security against foreign influence, which, wherever it is capable of being exerted, is to be dreaded more than the plague. The admission of foreigners into our councils, consequently, cannot be too much guarded against; their total exclusion from a station to which foreign nations have been accustomed to attach ideas of sovereign power, sacredness of character, and hereditary right, is a measure of the most consummate policy and wisdom.
The source of the “natural born citizen” standard is known to us today. Swiss jurist Emerrich de Vattel defined that term in his book The Law of Nations, published in 1758 and which, according to Benjamin Franklin, “had been continually in the hands of the members of our Congress.”
Book I, Chapter 19, Section 212 of The Law of Nations reads:
Natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. As the society cannot exist and perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights. The society is supposed to desire this, in consequence of what it owes to its own preservation; and it is presumed, as matter of course, that each citizen, on entering into society, reserves to his children the right of becoming members of it. The country of the fathers is therefore that of the children; and these become true citizens merely by their tacit consent. We shall soon see, whether, on their coming to the years of discretion, they may renounce their right, and what they owe to the society in which they were born. I say, that, in order to be of the country, it is necessary that a person be born of a father who is a citizen; for if he is born there of a foreigner, it will be only the place of his birth, and not his country. [Emphasis added.]
De Vattel’s definition of “natural born citizen” and the benefits derived from distinguishing between “natural born citizens” and “citizens” were well known to our Founding Fathers and, in fact, the very name of that high standard was copied verbatim by them into Article II of the U.S. Constitution wherein the qualifications for president of the United States are set out.
To see that such a qualification was universally agreed to by the delegates at the Constitutional Convention of 1787, one need only look to the record of that convention and note that the requirement that the president be a “natural born citizen” was mentioned only twice and was agreed to “nem. con.,” a contraction of a Latin legal phrase meaning “without opposition.”
Finally, for those reading this article and ready to throw down the 14th Amendment card, read a little more before you do.
Senator Jacob Merritt Howard (R-Mich.) was the principal architect of the citizenship clause of the 14th Amendment.
During the debates on the proposed amendment, Senator Howard insisted that the qualifying phrase “subject to the jurisdiction thereof” be inserted into Section 1 of the 14th Amendment being considered by his colleagues. Howard explained the need for the alteration:
This amendment which I have offered is simply declaratory of what I regard as the law of the land already, that every person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, [or] who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons.
Rationally, then, a person could not be “born in the United States” and be simultaneously a citizen and a “foreigner” or “alien” if the mere fact of nativity settled the question of citizenship!
Representative John Bingham also helped clarify the meaning of the “subject to the jurisdiction thereof” clause, declaring during the debate: “Every human being born within the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen.” (Emphasis added.)
It seems clear that the constitutional and legal history, as well as his own family history, demonstrate that although his policy positions seem to resonate with many Republicans, Vivek Ramaswamy is not constitutionally eligible to serve as president of the United States.
More at: https://thenewamerican.com/vivek-ramaswamy-not-constitutionally-eligible-to-be-president/



More historical analysis here: https://www.thepostemail.com/2021/05/16/natural-born-citizens-and-ussc-docket-20-1503/


Ramaswampy is a 14thA legislative citizen NOT a Natural Born Citizen.
The 14thA is not part of nature.
 
Here's the problem with that argument.

Let's say your great grandparents were not citizens, but they came here and established longterm residency and had children.

Under your arguments, your grandparents would not be citizens, even though they were born here, lived here their entire life, paid taxes, have SS#, driver's license, vote, etc.

That also means your parents wouldn't be citizens.

That also means you wouldn't be a citizen, despite being like a fourth generation American.

The grandparents would be legislative 14thA citizens, the parents and the person would be Natural Born Citizens.
 
And you know this how? How do you know how many hours he researched this, or how many actual hours I have researched this?

He's famous. You're not.

dannno doesn't think anyone can become famous without becoming either a god or the devil incarnate. They have less time yet do more studying. Fame improves their chess game without practice.

Famous people aren't just people. He doesn't know why, but he believes it implicitly.
 
Last edited:
The wide legal consensus is that the 14th Amendment grants all rights and priveleges and citizenship to virtually any human being born in the United States, and therefore they can become president if born here. If Biden kicks the bucket tomorrow, Kamala Harris is president. Quoting opinions from non-Americans written before 1776 is about as irrelevant as irrelevant gets.

I'm not saying it SHOULD be that way. I'm against it. But I recognize that Vivek and Kamala and Obama and any child born in the USA from illegals or whatever is POTUS eligible. The sole exceptions would be children of foreign dignitaries who have diplomatic immunity, as they are not subject to the US jurisdictions.
 
Last edited:
I have no idea if Ramaswamy is a "natural born citizen" (whatever that is - apparently, it all depends on whichever legal interpretations one already prefers to agree with) - and I don't really give a pair of fetid dingo's kidneys whether he is or not.

Javier Milei is certainly not a "natural born citizen" (or any other kind of citizen) of the U.S. - but if he ran for POTUS, I'd support him over Ramaswamy and all the rest (and I don't know if the guy has ever been outside of Argentina, or if he even speaks English).
 
Last edited:


Man, Vivek... You had me right up until #10.


To be clear, my problem with Vivek hasn't really been with what he's saying, it's that I don't get the sense that he really believes what he is saying. I could be wrong.
 
The wide legal consensus is that the 14th Amendment grants all rights and priveleges and citizenship to virtually any human being born in the United States, and therefore they can become president if born here. If Biden kicks the bucket tomorrow, Kamala Harris is president. Quoting opinions from non-Americans written before 1776 is about as irrelevant as irrelevant gets.

I'm not saying it SHOULD be that way. I'm against it. But I recognize that Vivek and Kamala and Obama and any child born in the USA from illegals or whatever is POTUS eligible. The sole exceptions would be children of foreign dignitaries who have diplomatic immunity, as they are not subject to the US jurisdictions.

+rep
 


Man, Vivek... You had me right up until #10.


To be clear, my problem with Vivek hasn't really been with what he's saying, it's that I don't get the sense that he really believes what he is saying. I could be wrong.

Do you think that Biden, Trump or any other politicians actually believe what they are saying?

Vivek is a salesman, no doubt about that. But his depth of knowledge of subjects, and ability to answer questions on the fly indicates that he has a true interest. Many politicians can disingenuously utter a pandering catch phrase, but they can't go into any depth. He's not Mike Pence up there saying "I'm going to shrink the government, next question."

P.s. Your Tweet reference doesn't seem to be working. Always good to include the full URL with tweets.
 
Back
Top