[VIDEO] Ron Paul "I believe we may be at the end stages of Keynesianism" 10/23/12

[tsai3904]

http://www.lewrockwell.com/lewrockwell-show/2012/10/23/316-the-prairie-fire-of-freedom/

 

[VoluntaryAmerican]

Good vid. bump

 

[fr33]

Excellent. Ron tells the truth about the cowards remote control droning like it's a video game.

 

[fr33]

This was such an awesome interview. Ron didn't pull any punches. He talked about how when Romney went to Poland and was confronted with RP banners and how he plans on writing another book. It was very anti-Republican. He really let loose with his opinions on this one.

 

[fr33]

He talks about how how our "understanding of liberty is much more advanced than the founders had". Totally revolutionary. I highly recommend this podcast!

 

[fr33]

Anarcho Capitalists can mark this one down as more proof that Ron understands and supports the anarchist movement. Skip to 19:40

 

[eleganz]

Just starting to listen to it right now.

 

[Travlyr]

That is a great interview.

Anarcho Capitalists can mark this one down as more proof that Ron understands and supports the anarchist movement. Skip to 19:40

Yes, if you are a pro-government anarchist because Ron Paul said, "what government should be doing, or shouldn't be doing" Ron Paul is acknowledging, like Mises and Rothbard, that government has a legitimate role to play in society albeit a small one.

If you are going to throw the term "anarchist movement" around without clearly defining it, then you will undermine your own message. Notice how Ron referred to the "Libertarian Camp" rather than use the word "Anarchist Camp." There is a reason for that. Large land owners, commercial building owners, shopping center owners, developers, homeowners, and many highly influential people who you will need to be on your side do not want anything to do with an "anarchist movement." They are very friendly to liberty and at the same time understand that the state has a role to play in property rights. How do I know this? Because I talk to land owners regularly.

So if the An-Caps want to include this in your win column, then at least listen carefully to the words Ron speaks.

 

[alex_florida]

... Ron Paul is acknowledging, like Mises and Rothbard, that government has a legitimate role to play in society albeit a small one.

Ron Paul and Mises - may be but Rothbard - what are you talking about? You hardly find someone who hated the government more than Rothbard and was more consistent in denying it. And late Mises, by the way, probably under the influence of the work of Rothbard, said that modern national states were not what he kept in mind...

 

[Travlyr]

Ron Paul and Mises - may be but Rothbard - what are you talking about? You hardly find someone who hated the government more than Rothbard and was more consistent in denying it. And late Mises, by the way, probably under the influence of the work of Rothbard, said that modern national states were not what he kept in mind...

The modern national states are not what classical liberals had in mind, not what the founders had in mind, nor are the modern national states even legitimate governments. They are illegitimate as defined by John Locke.

4.4 The Function Of Civil Government

Locke is now in a position to explain the function of a legitimate government and distinguish it from illegitimate government. The aim of such a legitimate government is to preserve, so far as possible, the rights to life, liberty, health and property of its citizens, and to prosecute and punish those of its citizens who violate the rights of others and to pursue the public good even where this may conflict with the rights of individuals. In doing this it provides something unavailable in the state of nature, an impartial judge to determine the severity of the crime, and to set a punishment proportionate to the crime. This is one of the main reasons why civil society is an improvement on the state of nature. An illegitimate government will fail to protect the rights to life, liberty, health and property of its subjects, and in the worst cases, such an illegitimate government will claim to be able to violate the rights of its subjects, that is it will claim to have despotic power over its subjects.

Mises said,

We call the social apparatus of compulsion and coercion that induces people to abide by the rules of life in society, the state; the rules according to which the state proceeds, law; and the organs charged with the responsibility of administering the apparatus of compulsion, government.

Ron Paul said,

"The U.S. Constitution is the most unique and best contract ever drawn up between a people and their government in history. Though flawed from the beginning, because all men are flawed, it nevertheless has served us well and set an example for the entire world.
...
I believe it's worthwhile for all of us to tirelessly pursue the preservation of the elegant Constitution with which we have been so blessed."

Rothbard said,

The libertarian creed, finally, offers the fulfillment of the best of the American past along with the promise of a far better future. Even more than conservatives, who are often attached to the monarchical traditions of a happily obsolete European past, libertarians are squarely in the great classicalliberal tradition that built the United States and bestowed on us the American heritage of individual liberty, a peaceful foreign policy, minimal government, and a free-market economy. Libertarians are the only genuine current heirs of Jefferson, Paine, Jackson, and the abolitionists.

In essence, here is the way Mises summed up classical liberal philosophy,

"The program of liberalism, therefore, if condensed into a single word, would have to read: property, that is, private ownership of the means of production... All the other demands of liberalism result from his fundamental demand."

Not doing away with the state; not doing away with law; not doing away with government; private ownership of the means of production.

 

[opal]

not seeing a vid.. just the pod cast

 

[alex_florida]

Deleted

 

[alex_florida]

In answer to Travlyr:

According to Rothbard [Nomos XIX], a state must have one or both of the following characteristics :

1) The ability to tax those who live within it.
2) It asserts and usually obtains a coerced monopoly of the provision of defence over a given area.

Instead of this, according Rothbard, the "anarcho"-capitalist thinks that people should be able to select their own defense companies, which would provide police, courts, etc. These associations would "all... would have to abide by the basic law code"

As far as I understand Rothbard he saw no need for the existence of a state.
The key thing is to define the difference between a State and Government. Thomas Paine said that a government is something that provides of “security and freedom.”
A state however:
(1) acquires its income by the physical coercion known as “taxation”;
and
(2) asserts and usually obtains a coerced monopoly of the provision of defense service (police and courts) over a given territorial area.

An institution not possessing either of these properties is not and cannot be, in accordance with Rothbard said and my understanding, a state. But it could be a government based on a voluntary association of people.

 

[Travlyr]

In answer to Travlyr:

According to Rothbard [Nomos XIX], a state must have one or both of the following characteristics :

1) The ability to tax those who live within it.
2) It asserts and usually obtains a coerced monopoly of the provision of defence over a given area.

Instead of this, according Rothbard, the "anarcho"-capitalist thinks that people should be able to select their own defense companies, which would provide police, courts, etc. These associations would "all... would have to abide by the basic law code"

As far as I understand Rothbard he saw no need for the existence of a state.
The key thing is to define the difference between a State and Government. Thomas Paine said that a government is something that provides of “security and freedom.”
A state however:
(1) acquires its income by the physical coercion known as “taxation”;
and
(2) asserts and usually obtains a coerced monopoly of the provision of defense service (police and courts) over a given territorial area.

An institution not possessing either of these properties is not and cannot be, in accordance with Rothbard said and my understanding, a state. But it could be a government based on a voluntary association of people.

That is all fine and dandy. What I am sharing with you is that I have spent much of my life visiting with farmers, land owners, owners of commercial real estate, developers, homeowners, and many people of influence in county governments. They are not philosophers. They understand the state in a much different way. If the liberty philosophy is going to be promoted as an anarchist philosophy with the intent to do away with the state and government as they know it, then the liberty movement just as well be shooting themselves in the foot if not the chest because it will be DOA with those folks. If you don't believe me, then go to where the farmers meet for coffee each morning, tell them all about your anarchist philosophy, and see for yourself.

 

[green73]

not seeing a vid.. just the pod cast

You're really missing out. Rockwell is wearing a suit. So is Paul.

 

[July]

Wow, this was such a great interview. Ron sounded very happy, and more excited and optimistic than I've heard him in a while... That was inspiring. I only wish it was longer.

 

[misean]

That is all fine and dandy. What I am sharing with you is that I have spent much of my life visiting with farmers, land owners, owners of commercial real estate, developers, homeowners, and many people of influence in county governments. They are not philosophers. They understand the state in a much different way. If the liberty philosophy is going to be promoted as an anarchist philosophy with the intent to do away with the state and government as they know it, then the liberty movement just as well be shooting themselves in the foot if not the chest because it will be DOA with those folks. If you don't believe me, then go to where the farmers meet for coffee each morning, tell them all about your anarchist philosophy, and see for yourself.

I totally agree with this sentiment. Anarchism is probably even a tough sell among Ron Paul supporters. I've read a couple of books by Rothbard and articles on Lew Rockwell's site. I'm definitely not convinced. Hayek and Mises certainly saw the need for a state. Mises even called the state a necessary good and I suspect Hayek felt the same way.

 

[sailingaway]

This is a really good interview.

 

[ClydeCoulter]

This is a really good interview.

Yes, it is. And he seems eager to talk about the issues openly with Lew, even though he knows Lew already knows. It's like when you get into a conversation with your buddies that you agree on and you feed each other and things get clearer and clearer.

I hope to hear from Ron a lot more in comfortable situations, even if the topics are not necessarily so.

 

[sailingaway]

Yes, it is. And he seems eager to talk about the issues openly with Lew, even though he knows Lew already knows. It's like when you get into a conversation with your buddies that you agree on and you feed each other and things get clearer and clearer.

I hope to hear from Ron a lot more in comfortable situations, even if the topics are not necessarily so.

I thought the same thing, he was venting with a friend.