[Video] Rand Paul on Fox News discusses ISIS 9/5/14

And who cares if people verbally threaten us. Like I always say about Iran, "is a quadriplegic a threat if he is talking shit out of spitting range?" The clear answer is no. These people are little more than that. We have nukes, so military bombing threats are nil according to game theory. We have a very armed populace, so no one can successfully invade and occupy us. You people are fretting about a statistical threat that is slightly less likely to kill you than a bathtub...and way less likely to harm you than a cop. Grow a pair; sack up. Liberty comes with tiny risks like that. If you want ultimate safety, kneel before your chosen tryants then, and stfu about valuing liberty. Liberty is more important than safety...dig up and ask runaway slaves who risked their lives to escape to freedom.
 
Bombing ISIS may solve a symptom, but not the cause.
Why aren't we talking about the cause, and just addressing the symptom? Is it because addressing the cause, would be mentioning a domestic enemy of the Constitution?

It goes a little deeper than the current, incompetent clown...

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Really - blame the translators over the centuries and the religious "spin doctors"

-t
 
I'm assuming you meant the lawless chaos of a failed or toppled state. Obviously a free society with a purely free market economy (what anarchists here refer to as ANARCHY) is not the chaos of a failed or toppled state. Anarchy, in the philosophical sense, not the colloquial meaning, has laws, roads, trade, defense, etc. We can point to historical examples via anthropology that were anything but chaos and yet stateless and had all those good things you think of as "ORDER". Spontaneous order is still order. Free market economies are not "CHAOS" in the sense state commies were taught to think it is.

I smoked your "booyah"...now go read an anthropology book and a few philosophers who advocate(d) for REAL anarchy (not some bullshit term statists, even minimalist statists, throw around for fun to smear us).

PS. If the comment was meant as sarcasm, I apologize...but sarcasm doesn't come across well in print unless you know the person well enough to get it (or it is painfully obvious).

Thought it was painfully obvious. My bad.

In the mean time calling something that has 'has laws, roads, trade, defense' Anarchy is the worst piece of marketing in the history of political philosophy.

What most Anarcho-capitalists actually mean when they refer to an 'Anarchic Society' is just a regular state without taxes. Sometimes their Utopia is a lot more oppressive than a regular western country, but as long as it tax free its oppression free.

Anyways, removing the state infrastructure has a poor anthropological record of spontaneously generating free markets and free people.
 
since american interventionism caused ISIS our government/military has a responsibility to stop them. So yes let's bomb them (if necessary) hopefully by congressional authorization. Egypt and UAE already are it's reported.
 
Wouldn't the best way to defend the country from ISIS be to control the mexican border?
 
since american interventionism caused ISIS our government/military has a responsibility to stop them. So yes let's bomb them (if necessary) hopefully by congressional authorization. Egypt and UAE already are it's reported.

yes, lets respond to their blowback with blowback of our own. And when they inevitably respond with more blowback to our blowback to their blowback, we can respond with more blowback, and then this is the song that never ends, it goes on and on my friends, some people started singing it not knowing what it was and they'll continue singing it forever just because this is the song that never ends, it goes on and on my friends, some people started singing it not knowing what it was and they'll continue singing it forever just because this is the song that never ends, it goes on and on my friends, some people started singing it not knowing what it was and they'll continue singing it forever just because
 
since american interventionism caused ISIS our government/military has a responsibility to stop them. So yes let's bomb them (if necessary) hopefully by congressional authorization. Egypt and UAE already are it's reported.

Riiight....because giving an AIDS patient more AIDS cures AIDS. /s
 
Thought it was painfully obvious. My bad.

In the mean time calling something that has 'has laws, roads, trade, defense' Anarchy is the worst piece of marketing in the history of political philosophy.

What most Anarcho-capitalists actually mean when they refer to an 'Anarchic Society' is just a regular state without taxes. Sometimes their Utopia is a lot more oppressive than a regular western country, but as long as it tax free its oppression free.

Anyways, removing the state infrastructure has a poor anthropological record of spontaneously generating free markets and free people.

1. I'm not an AnCap.

2. What AnCaps advocate isn't a state without taxes. See polycentric/free market/customary legal "systems" they advocate, as do left-libertarian anarchists like myself.

3. Anarchy is a society (a group of individuals) organized voluntarily (according to the anti-coercion principles of the philosophy of anarchism)...panarchist synthesis in organization and economic relations of individuals. Past societies fit that description from at least 14,000 years ago to about 6,000 years ago, to my knowledge. It wasn't modern, it wasn't advanced, it wasn't wealthy, etc...but that's a function of advances in science mostly. You take their ideas, update slightly for modern scientific understanding (like technology and economics), and you get anarchy in any real sense of the word (not the chaotic sense). It's not a marketing ploy...it's facts about history that show we don't require a state for damned thing the state says only it can provide via coercion.

4. Anarchism is the only anti-utopian philosophy. All statist ideologies assume the world can be coerced into some Utopia. Read the story Utopia by the man who wrote it (More)...it describes a state communist colony of sorts (forced egalitarianism). Anarchism cannot be utopian because it doesn't seek uniformity...and uniformity in human organization and economic relations is clearly impossible (even when coerced). Anarchism sees this problem, and instead of coming up with yet another ideology to force conformity, or imagining uniformity can ever be achieved via voluntary interactions, they reject uniformity. Hence, anarchism is a non-homogenous philosophy. It's heavily diverse (as human preferences tend to be without threats to stop the diversity and force it into black or gray markets).

5. I don't know any AnCaps who preach any oppression at all. If they do, they can't be anarchists, logically. Calling pure liberty and a lack of coercion against innocents "oppression" is quite Orwellian.

6. Taxes ARE oppressive. It's forced labor, albeit indirectly. The original taxes were in Egypt...if you couldn't pay in crops or something else, you went into slavery until the debt to state was paid. This was usually for some months. But now, we just take a percentage of earnings, as to make the slavery less obvious...but you still work the first 2 days of a 5 day work week for the state with no choice in the matter. At the end of the year, you have labored under coercion for months. Citizenship in a state is just a euphemism for being a slightly more free slave. A lack of citizenship is often worse, as you still are a slave, but one without any real protections or limited freedom to move between plantations (nation-states).

7. And of course REMOVING state infrastructures has a poor record of spontaneously generating free markets or free people...just as removing any monopoly without first allowing competition to supplant need will lead to a lack of whatever the monopoly supplies (imagine a food production and distribution monopoly in state communism not being slowly replaced via market solutions, but instead being bombed out of existence; instant starvation for those dependent on that monopoly, of course). The state fails or is conquered, resulting in pure anomie (a lack of social norms due to overregulation or conversely a complete lack of law), and you blame the chaos on statelessness, not a failed or conquered state. How illogical. It isn't the absence of state that is the problem...it's the lack of enlightened transition to statelessness in the minds of the masses. Imagine skipping the intellectual aspects of the Enlightenment, and then just magically making all clergy disappear. No shit the people would just nominate new clergy...they are brainwashed, and that hasn't changed. The only way to tear power away from an institution, whether corporate, union, church, or state is to enlighten people so it can be taken apart and replaced by market alternatives SIMULTANEOUSLY. To pull the rug out from underneath a people via a failed state or conquered state, and yet expect free markets/free people to emerge, is like expecting the people to become Deists, atheists, and rational theists without the couple hundred years of intellectual change that occurred via the ideas of the Enlightenment.

8. If you think anarchists, of any type, wish to just wave a magic wand (even if we had one) and make the state disappear overnight, you misunderstand us completely. That would lead to the disaster you already mistakenly blame on a lack of a state. We seek a 2nd Enlightenment in the minds of the masses, leading to an orderly (but spontaneous) replacement of state coerced monopolies, monopsony, and cartels (for both the state and its cronies) via both for-profit and non-profit voluntary solutions.

9. If you think state socialism works, in a minimalist form (a minarchy is just state coerced collective ownership over the means of production in various markets, like defense, law, and roads), then why not advocate state socialism in every market (state communism)? I mean, why do you draw the line on your support for state socialism at just a few markets, if it is so good? Logical consistency is not the realm of minarchists.
 
There has to be a realistic limit to U.S foreign policy. We can't just bomb every country that has a terrorist in it. I've advocated military force in Iraq and Syria against ISIS because you actually have a group of terrorists with a 100,000 member army who are trying to take over these countries. That's different from the situation in Yemen and some of these other countries. There are times when we have to kill terrorists, but I think it's also unrealistic to think that we can just use military force in every single country where there's a terrorist.
15,000 is the highest estimate I have seen. ISIS is growing faster than Ebola.
 
15,000 is the highest estimate I have seen. ISIS is growing faster than Ebola.

The 10.000-15.000 figure often quoted in the media is outdated and wrong. While it's difficult to find verifiable, quality information, the NGO Syrian Observatory for Human Rights reports that ISIS has 50.000 fighters in Syria alone, with 6.000 new recruits in the month of July alone. Most of their added strength is from Al-Qaeda affiliate Al-Nusra, whom ISIS defeated, and defections from the "moderate rebel forces" that the war hawks are eager to arm. ISIS pay their soldiers very well, so I can imagine some rebels want to switch to them for financial reasons, not religious. They are also very aggressive in recruiting child-soldiers.

Al-Jazeera says a source they have within ISIS confirms those numbers, and added that they have 30.000 in Iraq as well, for a total of 80.000 fighters. http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middl...50000-fighters-syria-2014819184258421392.html

On a related note, Rand had it completely right in this interview that the real solution comes from what he called "civilized Islam" fighting back against them. The US can help by not funding the other Syrian rebels, putting pressure on the Saudi's and Qatar, and with select tactical air-strikes in support on the battlefield. (Not bombing infrastructure and giving local people an excuse to sympathize with ISIS) Coordinating with Assad and Iran (the strongest anti-ISIS factions on the ground) is vital. In 2001, the US and Iranian special forces cooperated to defeat the Taliban. It can be done again. An interesting case in point on how this cooperation worked can be read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_uprising_in_Herat
 
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