vid of alex jones excoriating zeitgeist addendum

[RonPaulR3VOLUTION]

So, what happens in this Zeitgeist Addendumb society when someone spends some of their new free time on making on amazing piece of music that they distribute which becomes very popular? Then someone else will want to share in the fame by making their own song which is even more popular! Uh-oh, competition is back! Now people will just start competing for things like fame! How do you stop that one?

Here's how:

"THE YEAR WAS 2081, and everybody was finally equal. They weren’t only equal before God and the law. They were equal every which way. Nobody was smarter than anybody else. Nobody was better looking than anybody else. Nobody was stronger or quicker than anybody else. All this equality was due to the 211th, 212th, and 213th Amendments to the Constitution, and to the unceasing vigilance of agents of the United States Handicapper General."
http://instruct.westvalley.edu/lafave/hb.html
http://www.FinallyEqual.com


Money can be a means to compete, but it is hardly the source of human competition. Humans will always compete, absent technology turning them into mindless drones, even in such things as simple as skipping rocks and seeing who can spit the farthest. Have fun in your utopia trying to ban singing, dancing, running, dating, exercising, education, sports in general, and et cetera. All of those things and much more can be, and are, used to compete.

Where it is possible for differences to exist, competition is eternal.

Zeitgeist Addendumb is certainly not utopia for me.

All of that aside, the only* way to even attempt to build this robot-filled utopia is through the free market...

*Perhaps not the only way, but you will have a heck of a time getting there with a socialist/communist system.

 

[speech]

I had a problem with censorship with all the Paul sites, Im not anywhere close to a socialist so It might be true,

One banned me for bringing up sovereignty, it was overwhelming newbies. one banned me for linking to other PAUL sites, whoops I thought this was a group effort.

There is defiantly globalization hints in Addendum. I really dont like the venus project. Anything that puts the power in the hands of a few is a no to me

 

[pacelli]

So it'd be in the wednesday labelled podcast? About what time you recon?

It's right here, slow site but should load up for ya: http://justgetthere.us/blog/archives/Alex-Jones-Heated-Interview-with-Peter-Joseph-of-Zeitgeist.html

 

[Pistis]

There is no such thing/concept as 'evil' (except religion and Christianity especially );

...human beings have no aggresive/competitive instincts; (apart from our conditioning)

...we are 90% nuture, 10% nature; (just plain wrong)

...the scientific method (i.e. technology) will save the world by reconditioning humanity under a centralized power structure (So what happens if i don't want to be reconditioned?)

...humans don't need an incentive to produce and exchange, in fact we don't need money


Ok, when you hear someone spouting all this crazy stuff above, what's a man to do. So I didn't particularly enjoy how Alex handled the interview but I can't really blame him. He was talking to a delusional, fantasist who is self-evidently out of touch with reality.

 

[Defining Obscene]

I like the pseudo-patriots complaining that its the government's fault for corrupting the free market, but bash people for saying we need to get rid of government. You're on the same team.


As far as Zeitgeist is concerned, it contained the seeds of a few things we need to let into our mind, and plenty of seeds we need to never be planted. A scientific rule cannot, and will not happen. Sure, theres sheep out there, and theres religious sheep too; there is too much friction for such a system to be accepted as a whole. Not to mention there is probably too much room for anti-human behavior.


But what we do need to take from this, is that there is another way... We don't have to accept what he proposed, and I certainly don't, but we absolutely must find another way to function as a society. In order for something like that to happen, we must all come to find new truths. New truths that allow us to work in such a way that we don't need a monetary system or governing power. If you want to get rid of evil, cut it off at the knees, money can no longer be used as leverage over other people. The farce of "people earning their money" is laughable at best. The top 1% never worked a day in their lives, and they make money simply for having money. How can you expect a monetary system to work if there is a black hole that grows every single day, eating more and more of the "pie"? If you really prescribe to this system and call it the best we can come up with, then you are either extremely wealthy, or extremely dumb.

Note, that is NOT a call for communism or socialism, it is simply the truth that you will never have what they have, they will never concern themselves with you, and they can forever build their fortune off of your labor - without giving you an equal right to the earnings. Capitalism is legally-imbalanced communism. I don't like saying that, it sucks. But you have to realize that this is a 200 year old experiment and we are WITNESSING its outcome. Why live in denial? There is nothing wrong with accepting something that conflicts with what you previously held dear. It broadens your understanding.


If you listen to Ron Paul, what does he always say? We treat the symptoms, but not the problem. What is the problem? Ultimately, it is the government and money. Money gives you power, power to run for president, power to squash other people's personal power (monopolies/duopolies, legislation), and government is the shortcut for all of that. Exploit the laws, write new ones, take payments, leave wealthier than you came. No wonder there are power hungry people out there huh? Its kind of ironic that we promote these false "American" ideals but watch as Ron Paul gets snuffed off to the side, and we continue to say that its just the government. I digress.


We need to find a new way. We cannot save this country, this financial collapse is happening for a reason. These governments are being exposed for a reason. Take a clue, people. We need to seal the deal and just let it go, there has to be another way, and with human ingenuity, we will find it, and perfect it.

For those of you who hate Obama, I don't like the guy either, but he is exposing a very wide open hole in our system that needs to be addressed one way or the other. If McCain ain't gonna do it, then you know Barack will. He might (and probably will) prescribe the wrong medication for this problem, but to go against the idea that there is a problem at all, simply because Barack is using it to his advantage, is ignorance in its highest form.

We have to do something, and thats the bottom line. Something has to change, and we need to take this experiment as a lesson.

 

[Conza88]

As far as Zeitgeist is concerned, it contained the seeds of a few things we need to let into our mind, and plenty of seeds we need to never be planted. A scientific rule cannot, and will not happen. Sure, theres sheep out there, and theres religious sheep too; there is too much friction for such a system to be accepted as a whole. Not to mention there is probably too much room for anti-human behavior.

So can you actually name those "seeds" you talk about...

But what we do need to take from this, is that there is another way... We don't have to accept what he proposed, and I certainly don't, but we absolutely must find another way to function as a society. In order for something like that to happen, we must all come to find new truths. New truths that allow us to work in such a way that we don't need a monetary system or governing power.

Another way? Yes = FREEDOM! you tool. Please propose your solution? Robots right? NEW truths?

"Tyranny is old. Freedom is NEW..." - Ron Paul

Read this: http://www.dailypaul.com/node/69233 .. because you are ignorant. It's ok though; you can get help - it's called Knowledge - and it's contained within Ron Paul's books... Gold, Peace & Prosperity by Ron Paul; Pillars of Prosperity by Ron Paul - (Free Markets, Honest Money, Private Property) etc....

If you want to get rid of evil, cut it off at the knees, money can no longer be used as leverage over other people. The farce of "people earning their money" is laughable at best. The top 1% never worked a day in their lives, and they make money simply for having money. How can you expect a monetary system to work if there is a black hole that grows every single day, eating more and more of the "pie"? If you really prescribe to this system and call it the best we can come up with, then you are either extremely wealthy, or extremely dumb.

Ignorance is piss. Educate yourself. The monetary system we've got at the moment is communistic. Central banks mate; 5th plank of the Communist Manifesto. Get a clue Free market in money... GOLD STANDARD. If you don't get that, you are extremely ignorant - and if you don't take steps to educate yourself, you are extremely dumb.

Note, that is NOT a call for communism or socialism, it is simply the truth that you will never have what they have, they will never concern themselves with you, and they can forever build their fortune off of your labor - without giving you an equal right to the earnings. Capitalism is legally-imbalanced communism. I don't like saying that, it sucks. But you have to realize that this is a 200 year old experiment and we are WITNESSING its outcome. Why live in denial? There is nothing wrong with accepting something that conflicts with what you previously held dear. It broadens your understanding.

Note; it is a call for socialism & communism, you're just refraining from naming it. Or as I believe, you don't actually know it.. what you are advocating... lmao. Pretty sad. Jesus christ you're a tool. Capitalism is legally imbalanced communism? You're a fucken idiot. Communism is collectivism. Fascism is collectivism. Corporatism is fascism. Capitalism is INDIVIDUALISM. What part do you not get?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvhKOsn-0AY

If you listen to Ron Paul, what does he always say? We treat the symptoms, but not the problem. What is the problem? Ultimately, it is the government and money. Money gives you power, power to run for president, power to squash other people's personal power (monopolies/duopolies, legislation), and government is the shortcut for all of that. Exploit the laws, write new ones, take payments, leave wealthier than you came. No wonder there are power hungry people out there huh? Its kind of ironic that we promote these false "American" ideals but watch as Ron Paul gets snuffed off to the side, and we continue to say that its just the government. I digress.

The problem is the state, collectivism. The problem is socialism. You have no concept of what money actually is. It's purpose. You fail remarkably.

For those of you who hate Obama, I don't like the guy either, but he is exposing a very wide open hole in our system that needs to be addressed one way or the other. If McCain ain't gonna do it, then you know Barack will. He might (and probably will) prescribe the wrong medication for this problem, but to go against the idea that there is a problem at all, simply because Barack is using it to his advantage, is ignorance in its highest form.

We have to do something, and thats the bottom line. Something has to change, and we need to take this experiment as a lesson.

Who the f---k do you think you are talking to? Ron Paul supporters mate... you're suggesting we (collective - lol) don't think there is a problem?

Completely retarded. Mate, we've already experimented with what this bullshit suggests.. Abolition of property. Abolition of money would follow the same suit. Both Marxist ideology.

You really need help, you're a very lost individual.

 

[Ben2008]

I would love to interview that F$@K... Futuristic wannabe marxism by stealth FTFL.

Yeah, if Jones was smarter he really could have tore that guy down.

The guy was saying competition is bad, but then he would say that scarcity necessitates us being competitive in order to survive. Well, I have news for him, resources are limited. So how can what's necessary to do to live be bad?

And he said competitive drive is not genetic. I would ask him how he explain people who like to play chess. If elimination of the competitive drive is what he wants, then there are a lot of games and sports that would be eliminated a long with it. What he's missing is that some of us actually enjoy competition, and will choose to do it anyway even if it's not necessary to survive. Some of us would choose not to eliminate our own competitive spirit even if we could.

 

[Defining Obscene]

I'm not even going to respond to that, you used every other sentence as an opportunity to call me ignorant and retarded. Way to use your freedom, asshole. Good luck building your movement, I hope you manage to "FREE THE SHIT" out of all these ignorant people who are less than you, cause you certainly gained my support.

Oh by the way, money is debt. We're all in debt. Yea, I don't know what money is. You can live in debt, fine by me. Go chase that debt. Yea I don't know about RP, thats why I'm here, I don't read, I only read the Revolution Manifesto. Listen to you spout shit and then call someone else an idiot. You're just so into yourself aren't you? Again, enjoy living in your own world where that dollar will be used against you over and over again.

 

[H Roark]

And he said competitive drive is not genetic. I would ask him how he explain people who like to play chess. If elimination of the competitive drive is what he wants, then there are a lot of games and sports that would be eliminated a long with it. What he's missing is that some of us actually enjoy competition, and will choose to do it anyway even if it's not necessary to survive. Some of us would choose not to eliminate our own competitive spirit even if we could.

Great points. Can't wait to hear the calls once they bring back Joseph on the air to answer calls...

 

[Conza88]

I'm not even going to respond to that, you used every other sentence as an opportunity to call me ignorant and retarded. Way to use your freedom, asshole. Good luck building your movement, I hope you manage to "FREE THE SHIT" out of all these ignorant people who are less than you, cause you certainly gained my support.

Oh by the way, money is debt. We're all in debt. Yea, I don't know what money is. You can live in debt, fine by me. Go chase that debt. Yea I don't know about RP, thats why I'm here, I don't read, I only read the Revolution Manifesto. Listen to you spout shit and then call someone else an idiot. You're just so into yourself aren't you? Again, enjoy living in your own world where that dollar will be used against you over and over again.

You won't respond, because you can't... In every sentence, I rebutt the bs you are defending.. then I call you ignorant in the other, yeah so what it's a statement of FACT, it is the truth. You are ignorant on what money is. I'm not calling you stupid, I'm just pointing out you have no idea what you are talking about. Now you can change that, by educating yourself - OR you CAN be stupid, and remain willfully ignorant. It's up to you..

Thanks for admitting your ignorance. You are your own worst enemy. Go read the books mentioned in the Daily Paul link, I posted to you. PDF's online.. audio versions aswell... "What has government done to our money?" By Murray Rothbard...

Don't get mad at me, because I tell it like it is. I'm doing you a favour, go study the material and come back and prove me wrong..

A GOLD standard (REAL MONEY) you know, chosen by the free market - is not debt. The sooner you understand that, the sooner you'll realise the piece of Bullshit you've been defending is a joke and outright marxist crap.

 

[Defining Obscene]

You won't respond, because you can't... In every sentence, I rebutt the bs you are defending.. then I call you ignorant in the other, yeah so what it's a statement of FACT, it is the truth. You are ignorant on what money is. I'm not calling you stupid, I'm just pointing out you have no idea what you are talking about. Now you can change that, by educating yourself - OR you CAN be stupid, and remain willfully ignorant. It's up to you..

Thanks for admitting your ignorance. You are your own worst enemy. Go read the books mentioned in the Daily Paul link, I posted to you. PDF's online.. audio versions aswell... "What has government done to our money?" By Murray Rothbard...

Don't get mad at me, because I tell it like it is. I'm doing you a favour, go study the material and come back and prove me wrong..

A GOLD standard (REAL MONEY) you know, chosen by the free market - is not debt. The sooner you understand that, the sooner you'll realise the piece of Bullshit you've been defending is a joke and outright marxist crap.

Yeah, you try to attach my views to Zeitgeist, then call me a communist. You're like Bill O'reilly trying find the worst of things to attach to people who don't even support those ideas. Now if you want to engage in respectful conversation, like a forum should be, then please be courteous, instead of saying I'm full of BS. I'm not going to respond to someone who calls me an ignorant retard every other sentence, then says I can't respond because I'm full of shit. Your preconceived notion has built yourself into a box where you have to insult other people to hold it together. If you think thats really freedom, you can have it. But I'm done defending myself on that point.

You're telling me to read books? Do you think I live in a cardboard box on the street? Who do you think you are, pal? I know about Ron Paul, I used to support this whole charade because I believed in it. I believed in the free market, I believed in sound money, and I believed in the constitution. But heres where you are making some absurd notions... You think I don't believe in freedom? Please show me where I said I don't endorse freedom? Please show me where I said I support socialism and a pseudo-scientific government? It doesn't exist because I don't. I didn't like where Zeitgeist went, and I made that clear in the very first paragraph in the original post.

Listen, the best way to deceive someone is by mixing the truth with the lies. If you're a good fish, you can get the bait without getting hooked. This is what Zeitgeist is, and most mainstream media is. No shit, Zeitgeist is basically NWO gummy bears for kids. But before you went on a tirade of calling me a handicapped marxist, you should have paid attention to the fact that I said that there has to be another way.

You know who Ron Paul is? He has the mind of a founding father. Our nation and constitution was created by a whole group of Ron Pauls. Now explain to me how something so perfect, could get corrupted over time, and yet you accept it as perfect? Even Thomas Jefferson made it perfectly clear...

"Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson


Did you read that? Read it again. I'm not going to go ask you to read 10 books and come back because you're a retard, just read that 1 quote. He said, no matter what, government is going to be corrupted. You can talk all day about restoring the constitution, but a government and a society driven by money (GOLD OR NOT!) is going to be in it for their own benefit. And for a long time, we've accepted that as the best system we could come up with... Because it WAS. If you want to start all over again, just to be corrupted in the future as Jefferson correctly hypothesized, then you are literally throwing time away. We have to change if we want to continue to become better people in this world. There is no dollar amount that makes you a better person. Do you think it is ethical that a person owns 10 billion dollars? Honestly, answer that. Is it ETHICAL? Do you think I'm attacking freedom when I say we could all stand to be a little more ETHICAL? Really? That is the new truth I was referring to. We have no ethics in this society, and we are always going to be plagued by it until this all falls apart. It doesn't matter if there is gold backing a dollar bill or not, unethical behavior is tearing us all down, and hiding under the flag of capitalism, just as it has always hidden under every other tyrannical flag. You seriously can't blame everyone's behavior and all the ills that the people of this nation, and the whole world face, on the fact that there is no gold standard. People who bust their asses aren't going to be any happier getting minimum wage in gold, or fiat paper.


I hate communism, I hate the government, and I want nothing to do with them. The government cannot give us anything we don't already have, except understanding through error. We all need to learn to become more ethical, not "re-educated" like you think I need to be (re-educated, thats NWO speak). Ethics will be learned the hard way. All this corruption, pain, and suffering that is coming, will not leave without a new understanding of what it means to be ethical in this world.

And if you think I'm such a stupid moron for saying these things, then thats your prerogative.

 

[Conza88]

Yeah, you try to attach my views to Zeitgeist, then call me a communist. You're like Bill O'reilly trying find the worst of things to attach to people who don't even support those ideas. Now if you want to engage in respectful conversation, like a forum should be, then please be courteous, instead of saying I'm full of BS. I'm not going to respond to someone who calls me an ignorant retard every other sentence, then says I can't respond because I'm full of shit. Your preconceived notion has built yourself into a box where you have to insult other people to hold it together. If you think thats really freedom, you can have it. But I'm done defending myself on that point.

You say you are against it at the start yes, but then all you do is go on and DEFEND the movie and it's subverted ideas. Well all I'm doing is DEFENDING the truth, logic and reason - the movie is clinically retarded. Ok, you agree? Good - then stop defending it indirectly.

You're telling me to read books? Do you think I live in a cardboard box on the street? Who do you think you are, pal? I know about Ron Paul, I used to support this whole charade because I believed in it. I believed in the free market, I believed in sound money, and I believed in the constitution. But heres where you are making some absurd notions... You think I don't believe in freedom? Please show me where I said I don't endorse freedom? Please show me where I said I support socialism and a pseudo-scientific government? It doesn't exist because I don't. I didn't like where Zeitgeist went, and I made that clear in the very first paragraph in the original post.

I'm telling you to read books, that would correct the retarded direction you're going it. You want a new direction, some NEW way? Yeah - it is called capitalism, free markets, no state government intervention, free enterprise, a free market in money, no central banks, no fiat currency, sound money, no welfare state, individualism not collectvism, social freedoms combined with economic freedoms. That is all NEW, that is the ONLY way. Tyranny is OLD, freedom is NEW...

So don't strawman me. You talk in past tense,"I used to support this whole charade because I believed in it. I believed in the free market, I believed in sound money, and I believed in the constitution."

And I'm calling you a retard for not believing in it ANYMORE. And it appears this movie is what moved you from those beliefs? Right? If not, then what?

Listen, the best way to deceive someone is by mixing the truth with the lies. If you're a good fish, you can get the bait without getting hooked. This is what Zeitgeist is, and most mainstream media is. No shit, Zeitgeist is basically NWO gummy bears for kids. But before you went on a tirade of calling me a handicapped marxist, you should have paid attention to the fact that I said that there has to be another way.

Ok good, thank you for understanding it's bs. It's a pity you've fallen for it's biggest trap though. What is this dreamland other way? I think you may be looking for anarcho-capitalism... as it really is that way.. but you've stopped believing in free markets.. which is retarded. Socialism vs Capitalism - is NOT a false dichotomy... the OWNERSHIP of production; private or public. That's it. Can you improve upon that? Capitalism is the way, you are looking for. You've just been side tracked.

You know who Ron Paul is? He has the mind of a founding father. Our nation and constitution was created by a whole group of Ron Pauls. Now explain to me how something so perfect, could get corrupted over time, and yet you accept it as perfect? Even Thomas Jefferson made it perfectly clear...

"Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson

Did you read that? Read it again. I'm not going to go ask you to read 10 books and come back because you're a retard, just read that 1 quote. He said, no matter what, government is going to be corrupted. You can talk all day about restoring the constitution, but a government and a society driven by money (GOLD OR NOT!) is going to be in it for their own benefit. And for a long time, we've accepted that as the best system we could come up with... Because it WAS. If you want to start all over again, just to be corrupted in the future as Jefferson correctly hypothesized, then you are literally throwing time away. We have to change if we want to continue to become better people in this world.

Mate, I know all this. That's why I'm an anarcho-capitalist. I know governments, even ones restricted by constitutions - don't remain limited. Evil does not sleep. I want to get rid of the state.

The reason I suggested those books, is because you obviously never had a good enough grounding in capitalism and free markets and what they are. Because you yourself have admitted you've been swayed. Time for re-education.

There is no dollar amount that makes you a better person. Do you think it is ethical that a person owns 10 billion dollars? Honestly, answer that. Is it ETHICAL? Do you think I'm attacking freedom when I say we could all stand to be a little more ETHICAL? Really? That is the new truth I was referring to. We have no ethics in this society, and we are always going to be plagued by it until this all falls apart. It doesn't matter if there is gold backing a dollar bill or not, unethical behavior is tearing us all down, and hiding under the flag of capitalism, just as it has always hidden under every other tyrannical flag. You seriously can't blame everyone's behavior and all the ills that the people of this nation, and the whole world face, on the fact that there is no gold standard. People who bust their asses aren't going to be any happier getting minimum wage in gold, or fiat paper.

If that person has provided an insurmountable amount of increased productivity, happiness and pleasure for other people. If they have used their subjective value and purchased his product / goods or service - and he has made money from it. WHAT is unethical about that? What is unethical about Bill Gates and the service he has provided? just as one example.

I mean really... if you obtain MONEY through voluntarism, through exchange of goods and services.. what is MORE ethical than that? You are mixing up the obtainment of money - with exploitation... which is what HAPPENS now... but this is NOT CAPITALISM. Ya digg? It can't be that hard to understand.. Non aggression + property rights is the libertarian founding blocs and foundations.

Look into it. Because you seriously haven't. While there was a quasi gold standard... it was the most peaceful time in terms of wars, in modern history.

As soon as the Central Bank came into creation. The US has been at war ever since... and undeclared since 44'.

I hate communism, I hate the government, and I want nothing to do with them. The government cannot give us anything we don't already have, except understanding through error. We all need to learn to become more ethical, not "re-educated" like you think I need to be (re-educated, thats NWO speak). Ethics will be learned the hard way. All this corruption, pain, and suffering that is coming, will not leave without a new understanding of what it means to be ethical in this world.

And if you think I'm such a stupid moron for saying these things, then thats your prerogative.

Ok, good you say you hate communism and government. You just need to stop hating on capitalism. Because clinically, if you hate and denounce capitalism, you pretty much are by default a socialist. What possible system could you be advocating otherwise? No free markets? You're not advocating the "third way" are you?

Socialism vs Capitalism ain't a false dichonomy. And I would LOVE for you to prove otherwise. Until then, you're in dream land without a logical thought as to WHY or what it is, but you just "FEEL" that there is another way. :o

The Ethics of Liberty by Murray Rothbard
http://mises.org/media.aspx?action=category&ID=95
http://mises.org/rothbard/ethics.pdf

Enjoy, I think this is what you've been looking for.

 

[Defining Obscene]

Well see, calling what I envision as a dreamland is no more of a dreamland than a government and economy that can never be tainted. We're already watching one dreamland go down in flames... I'm not saying I know all the answers yet, maybe when this all falls apart and people start becoming a little more ethical, the neo-patriots can put something together that actually expounds on freedom, without the limits of money and government. But if we're ethical, there won't really be a need for money or government anyway. Of COURSE it sounds crazy now, because it hasn't existed yet, its unprecedented.

And when I was saying owning 10 billion dollars as being unethical, we need to look into what the accepted ideas of business are. It is acceptable to cut down supply to drive the price up. Why are we manufacturing lack for profit? What stops people from cutting the supply of food to drain resources of those who need it most? That principal is not seen as unethical, its seen as good business. Think about those "terminator seeds", what a disgusting product. Back to the 10 billion and Bill Gates example, Bill Gates doesn't do all the work himself. He hasn't done any work in how many years? Yet he gets all the royalties of it. Sure, he has a board that gets decent pay, but what about manufacturers? What about the little guys? Why are they not even seeing .000001 of a billion per year? This is where I disagree fundamentally, and I also disagree that it is socialism. He is paying the people who are doing his work, hes not chipping into some fund for a bum to get his teeth fixed. This is why jobs get outsourced, all the exploitation, it just never ends. But if you believe in a free market, then you believe that these people can pay however much they want, even if its extremely unethical, and we are taught not to complain because its a fully-functional system. Its dysfunctional IMO, and a grotesque example of how far people can stretch "American ideals". I'm not talking about leveraging money and the Federal reserve, I'm talking about simple business principals that we've come to accept. Supply and demand, supply and demand, supply and demand. People care more about maximizing profit than providing the service, just ask anyone who has lost their job. It all comes down to ethics, and the concept of money supply.


It wasn't Zeitgeist that changed my opinion. It came the realization that 1776 was the prime of government in our nation, and that there is no way to get it back or preserve it. We are witnessing the ugliest things we could have ever imagined, all happen at once. If we don't want to face these things again, we all have to come to some sort of agreement on a system, or really, a lack of a system, and base everything on ethics, or whatever further understanding we may reach after that. It boggles me how this country wants to slip into communism, like they have forgotten about the Soviets or even the Chinese. It boggles me how people seem to conveniently forget that the Nation Socialist Workers Party IS the Nazi party. Zeitgeist was only useful in that it showed alternatives can be recognized, aside from the 3 base systems, although their proposed system was really disturbingly close to a pretty sick agenda. It opens the minds to possibilities, and nothing more. If people can't use their discretion, that is their loss, for in a free society no one can tell them what to watch or think. And the simple fact that they are railing against religious ideology is proof that they are not about freedom, they are about re-education (reprogramming), as Joseph clearly repeated over and over.


Ultimately what I'm saying is, let this play out. From the ashes something will rise that was better than the predecessor. If we still cling to our system, then they will still cling to theirs, and this will start all over again. We can't afford to do this again, and I don't mean money wise, because I think this is going to get pretty ugly soon. But I'm not worried, this has to happen.

 

[Conza88]

Well see, calling what I envision as a dreamland is no more of a dreamland than a government and economy that can never be tainted. We're already watching one dreamland go down in flames... I'm not saying I know all the answers yet, maybe when this all falls apart and people start becoming a little more ethical, the neo-patriots can put something together that actually expounds on freedom, without the limits of money and government. But if we're ethical, there won't really be a need for money or government anyway. Of COURSE it sounds crazy now, because it hasn't existed yet, its unprecedented.

And when I was saying owning 10 billion dollars as being unethical, we need to look into what the accepted ideas of business are. It is acceptable to cut down supply to drive the price up. Why are we manufacturing lack for profit? What stops people from cutting the supply of food to drain resources of those who need it most? That principal is not seen as unethical, its seen as good business. Think about those "terminator seeds", what a disgusting product. Back to the 10 billion and Bill Gates example, Bill Gates doesn't do all the work himself. He hasn't done any work in how many years? Yet he gets all the royalties of it. Sure, he has a board that gets decent pay, but what about manufacturers? What about the little guys? Why are they not even seeing .000001 of a billion per year? This is where I disagree fundamentally, and I also disagree that it is socialism. He is paying the people who are doing his work, hes not chipping into some fund for a bum to get his teeth fixed. This is why jobs get outsourced, all the exploitation, it just never ends. But if you believe in a free market, then you believe that these people can pay however much they want, even if its extremely unethical, and we are taught not to complain because its a fully-functional system. Its dysfunctional IMO, and a grotesque example of how far people can stretch "American ideals". I'm not talking about leveraging money and the Federal reserve, I'm talking about simple business principals that we've come to accept. Supply and demand, supply and demand, supply and demand. People care more about maximizing profit than providing the service, just ask anyone who has lost their job. It all comes down to ethics, and the concept of money supply.


It wasn't Zeitgeist that changed my opinion. It came the realization that 1776 was the prime of government in our nation, and that there is no way to get it back or preserve it. We are witnessing the ugliest things we could have ever imagined, all happen at once. If we don't want to face these things again, we all have to come to some sort of agreement on a system, or really, a lack of a system, and base everything on ethics, or whatever further understanding we may reach after that. It boggles me how this country wants to slip into communism, like they have forgotten about the Soviets or even the Chinese. It boggles me how people seem to conveniently forget that the Nation Socialist Workers Party IS the Nazi party. Zeitgeist was only useful in that it showed alternatives can be recognized, aside from the 3 base systems, although their proposed system was really disturbingly close to a pretty sick agenda. It opens the minds to possibilities, and nothing more. If people can't use their discretion, that is their loss, for in a free society no one can tell them what to watch or think. And the simple fact that they are railing against religious ideology is proof that they are not about freedom, they are about re-education (reprogramming), as Joseph clearly repeated over and over.


Ultimately what I'm saying is, let this play out. From the ashes something will rise that was better than the predecessor. If we still cling to our system, then they will still cling to theirs, and this will start all over again. We can't afford to do this again, and I don't mean money wise, because I think this is going to get pretty ugly soon. But I'm not worried, this has to happen.

For a New Liberty - Murray Rothbard

And the PDF.